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Topic:
Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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Plurimus
Registered:
Apr '99
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Date Posted:
10/18/03 5:59am
Subject:
Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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Having written the book on lightsaber fighting, I am very impressed with what I've seen of the Clone Wars cartoon.
Could someone contact me if they know how I can get in touch with Geddy Tartakovsky.
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Sic Anima Tecum Author of: Shimmering Sword: Samurai, Western & Star Wars Sword Fighting http://www.ShimmeringSword.com Lightsaber choreographer for Revelations http://www.panicstruckpro.com/revelations
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Xenobi
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
10/18/03 8:13am
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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WHat book? where can i get it?
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JediMasterGuff
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
10/18/03 8:28am
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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Check his sig, there's a site about his book.
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masterskywalker
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
10/18/03 9:21am
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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Hey Plurimus, love your book! 
When I watched that little promo, I was blown away at how perfectly Genndy has captured the Jedi fighting style. You should also check out Samurai Jack, which has some wonderfully coreographed swordplay.
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Plurimus
Registered:
Apr '99
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Date Posted:
10/18/03 12:09pm
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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I enjoy watching Samurai Jack but I have to admit I don't go out of my way to watch it. I'll watch it when I come across it channel surfing.
Japanese sword fighting is very evident in Samurai Jack, so when I watched the UK clip I was very pleased. Anakin, Mace, and the other Jedi were quick and deadly -- as it should be.
One thing I don't like about the PT lightsaber fighting is that it's not Japanese enough. Especially when the Jedi are essentially an homage to the samurai. Alas, perhaps I expect too much.
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Sic Anima Tecum Author of: Shimmering Sword: Samurai, Western & Star Wars Sword Fighting http://www.ShimmeringSword.com Lightsaber choreographer for Revelations http://www.panicstruckpro.com/revelations
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masterskywalker
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
10/18/03 12:14pm
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
- Date Edited:
10/18/03 12:16pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
masterskywalker
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Yeah, I know what you mean. The best duel IMO is the ESB one. It's fast paced in some parts, and has cool long stare downs (Samurai style) in others.
Still the prequels are okay, the constant twirling can get a bit old though.
My favorite duel section of the Prequels is where Anakin and Dooku stare each other down in a variation of jodan no kamae in near darkness. Then they launch into a fury of attacks. Cool.
In relation to the Clone War cartoon. The final two episodes of the series are a massive duel between Anakin and Ventress. From the concept art, they both use two lightsabers at one point! 
Also note the Samurai style with which Anakin and Obi Wan rest their arms (can be seen in the 50 odd new screen captures). Totally cool. Reminds me of the Ronin from Yojimbo.
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Darth_Omega
Title: Forum Feud Winner
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
10/18/03 12:31pm
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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Especially when the Jedi are essentially an homage to the samurai. Alas, perhaps I expect too much.
True, most of them fought the Imperials during the Meji revolution
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masterskywalker
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
10/18/03 1:06pm
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
- Date Edited:
10/18/03 1:06pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
masterskywalker
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Aside from the campaigns of Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa Ieyasu during the sengoku period, the rebellion of the Samurai against the Meji government is my favorite peroid in the military history of Japan (That and the russo-japanese war).  I'm so pumped for the Last Samurai, hopefully it'll be more Shogun than Mission Impossible.
They went down fighting too. Most estimates put the Samurai kill ratio at 3:1, dispite being outnumbered and outgunned. I really don't think the Samurai could have gone out any better. They died with nobility and great honor.
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Plurimus
Registered:
Apr '99
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Date Posted:
10/18/03 8:26pm
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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Unfortunately the samurai were on the wrong side. No intended correlation to SW (because SW isn't real), but the samurai fought against the government because they were xenophobic of the West and the West's new armies. A good reading of that period's history shows that there were a great number of samurai who recognized the superior weapons that the West brought to their land.
Being a stickler for history, it would have been a stronger story if Lucas made the Jedi anti- progressive — a Jedi Order which refused to change with the times. The emperor would be touting a better form of government for the people, making the "old order" less desirable and thus making the Jedi Order irrelevant. Instead, the Jedi Order falls because of one individual, and not because of a "decaying" society trying to re-invent itself. That old chestnut.
The cartoon screen captures are pretty sweet. Very traditional samurai stances. When I taught actors for a SW fan film their sword fight choreography, I taught them to proper stances at the beginning and end of fight phrases. I couldn't teach them the concept of zanshin, so hitting stance cues was the next best thing. You guys should check out the stills at Revelations. Go to the "production" section to see lightsaber still from the cave scenes. I'm the one with the pink lightsaber. Though I don't want to brag, the fan film's fight scenes are better than those in Kill Bill. I can't promise what the final cut will look like (that's not my department), but I think people will like it.
Looking forward to Last Samurai, as well as LotR.
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Sic Anima Tecum Author of: Shimmering Sword: Samurai, Western & Star Wars Sword Fighting http://www.ShimmeringSword.com Lightsaber choreographer for Revelations http://www.panicstruckpro.com/revelations
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masterskywalker
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
10/19/03 8:09pm
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
- Date Edited:
10/19/03 8:11pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
masterskywalker
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I was under the impression that it was more of an internal conflict between the Samurai (traditional rulers of Japan) and the newly reborn Imperial power (The Emperor had western backing). Does it matter if they were on the "right" side? The Samurai were going down one way or another. At least their legacy lived on.
The show should highlight the Jedi's unarmed combat training too. As Mace loses his saber and fights hand to hand against battle droids in one episode. Should be the Jedi equivelent to Karate/Judo/Jujitsu which is what disarmed Samurai used.
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DarthTerrious
Title: JC Arena Fantasy Premier League Gameweek 1 Winner
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
10/20/03 4:25am
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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Being a stickler for history, it would have been a stronger story if Lucas made the Jedi anti- progressive — a Jedi Order which refused to change with the times. The emperor would be touting a better form of government for the people, making the "old order" less desirable and thus making the Jedi Order irrelevant. Instead, the Jedi Order falls because of one individual, and not because of a "decaying" society trying to re-invent itself. That old chestnut.
LOL have we watched the same PT? The Jedi Order are Anti-Progressive and refuse to change with the times.
TPM showed that with their dismissal of Anakin because he was too old, and they feared the fear within him.
And whose to say the Emperor wont tout a different form of government in Episode 3? Hell in AOTC he already has Anakin agreeing to his idea
The PT is showing a decaying society and an Order falling because of their too rigid stance. Its not all down to one person (I take it you mean Anakin, and frankly you are completely wrong).
Remember Palpatine will push for the Jedi's destruction when he forms the Empire (therefore re-inventing the decaying society by ridding it of a weak Order).
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masterskywalker
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
10/20/03 9:22am
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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Agrees with "teh" Terrious.
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JediTrilobite
Registered:
Nov '99
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Date Posted:
10/20/03 11:34am
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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If anyone knows how to contact Tartakovsky, let ME know too. I want to interview him.
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JediMasterGuff
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
10/20/03 12:31pm
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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Somehow I get the feeling there will be a chat for HS members sometime in the near future
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Plurimus
Registered:
Apr '99
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Date Posted:
10/20/03 6:33pm
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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Darth Terrious: LOL have we watched the same PT? The Jedi Order are Anti-Progressive and refuse to change with the times. TPM showed that with their dismissal of Anakin because he was too old, and they feared the fear within him. And whose to say the Emperor wont tout a different form of government in Episode 3? Hell in AOTC he already has Anakin agreeing to his idea.
The PT is showing a decaying society and an Order falling because of their too rigid stance. Its not all down to one person (I take it you mean Anakin, and frankly you are completely wrong). Remember Palpatine will push for the Jedi's destruction when he forms the Empire (therefore re- inventing the decaying society by ridding it of a weak Order).
Thanks for your counter arguments, but GL hasn't presented a historically sophisticated background for the fall of the Jedi. He merely pulls from various historical events (Roman Civil War, US Civil War, European Fascism). There is no revolutionary social change that the Emperor purports to profess. It's simply good versus evil, and the choice Anakin makes to do evil because of his desire for power.
Behind all revolutionary political upheavals is a huge swell in the way people see how they will live, usually reflected in the leadership of the time. Lincoln desired an undivided nation without slavery. Hitler spoke of building a great nation of purity that touched the masses of the German speaking people of Europe. Marcos made constitutional justifications for his dictatorship. Julius Caesar while wanting personal power, also spoke on behalf of the poor and instituted social reforms which helped the poor and were popular with them.
The Emperor is some machinating and evil politician who gets elected by a "sympathy vote." There are not throngs of people clamoring on his behalf, creating a situation where the senate has to acknowledge that a vote against Palpatine is a vote against the people. Palpatine doesn't even even hold sway over a military force — the Jedi are servants not zealots, the clone troopers are organic automatons conveniently created by his diabolical scheming. Julius commanded legions (literally), Lincoln held moral rights behind his cause, Hitler held deterministic genetic superiority (exactly as Socrates admired the Spartan eugenics of an elite society), and Marcos (supported by the US), himself a lawyer, professed capitalistic anti-Communism.
In AOTC, what do we get? "Mesa propose that the Seanate give emergency powers to the Supreme Chancellor." And a pathetic, "I love democracy. I love the Republic." Any attempt to make the story "business becoming government" as Amidala says in the original script is lost in the final editing of the movie. And that's what gets me. Star Wars has all the potential to have been a fantastic social commentary, not just cool lightsaber fights and realistic digital worlds.
To get back to Japan, it wasn't clear in my earlier post, but the samurai I mentioned who supported the new Meiji government didn't just wave flags and say "You go, Emperor, and bring glory to the land of the rising sun. These were traditionally reared samurai who got it into their head that something had to be done to transform Japanese society. Tradition of many samurai wasn't going to be enough. These new samurai learned Dutch and English, traveled to Europe, got Western educations in science, politics, and arts. They wanted to transform (some desired to sweep away) the feudal society and turn it into a vital, thriving, modern country. The samurai who fought against the modern army had ideals, but they were short-sighted and chaffing of their loss of political influence and resentful of approaching Western domination. The history of the upcoming Last Samurai (the movie) is a historic cultural clash between Japanese patriots.
I'm not very enthusiastic for the Jedi of the Republic. I can do the lightsaber fighting they did, but I also learned languages, politics, and listened to the arguments of the political elites and the heartfelt opinions of the comman person, whether he/she be educated or uneducated. I'm not easily impressed with the fanatical fascination of being a member of a sword fighting society, which makes me suspect of the EU and its romantic notion of a guardian lightsaber toting society. The Jedi Order is simply a foil for the Emperor, nothing more.
Anakin doesn't face the traditonal samurai choice of duty to family versus duty to state. He's simply pissed off because his mom died. If he had to make a choice to sacrifice his mother in order to preserve the democracy of the Republic or allow her to live and permit the Emperor to take over, that would be a tragic choice. In ROTJ, Yoda speaks of sacrificing the lives of his friends in order to continue his training and eventually save the universe. It's a noble calling, though not necessarily the correct one. Luke goes on to prove Yoda wrong by turning his father from his past, injust ways. It's okay for Yoda to be wrong. Even the most brilliant minds can be wrong. The moral at the end of ROTJ is that an innocent purity and a love of friends can be as powerful as training to be a Jedi. ROTJ still ends with ewoks, but at least there's room for my interpretation.
The OT provides a fantastic lesson for us. I write about it in my book. But that's my interpretation. No one has to accept my argument. For the PT, it's really Lucas making things up along the way based on his vague notions that led up to his ANH script. So when he posits political and social conundrums in the PT, he goes out on a limb and is now open to criticisms from me and hosts of others.
I've intellectualized the OT in my book, but when it comes down to it, SW is an adventure story with a nice moral. The PT should've been too. The Jedi should've discovered Palpatine immediately and then rebelled against him, speaking out in the name of the common alien. Instead they became naive (and stupid) dupes in a cheap (but pretty) romance novel.
What's decaying about the Jedi Order, Coruscant, the democratic peace movement in the Senate? Where are there serious indications of the Republic's decadance, hubris, of elitist folly? The Hospitalar Order of Knights still survives by volunteering and supporting hospitals. The Jesuits are progressives within a very structured, military, and traditional culture. It's possible to have traditional values and modern and progressive beliefs. The Jedi don't die heroically, they get picked off and played as fools. The Jedi have no battle savy in Geonosis and a Jedi Council member gets picked off by a gun twirling thug. Instead of the Emperor being a Napoleon who uses dictatorial methods under the guise of Republican constitutionality, Palpatine becomes the Lady de Winter, and the Jedi Knights an effete band of Don Quixotes. At least Don Quixote was an idealist, the Jedi seem to be, well, dumb.
I love SW, but it could've been better. I love watching TPM and AOTC (I've been sick for a month and I've watched the movies over and over), but there's a lack of enthusiasm for SW today that is unconsciously felt by those who enjoy SW but aren't die-hard fans. With the OT everyone would say, "Yeah, you should go and see it." Today, it's like, "Eh, I'll wait til it comes to cable." Whose to blame? Well, everybody seems to be picking on some these days — GL, McCallum, me, a SW basher.
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Sic Anima Tecum Author of: Shimmering Sword: Samurai, Western & Star Wars Sword Fighting http://www.ShimmeringSword.com Lightsaber choreographer for Revelations http://www.panicstruckpro.com/revelations
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masterskywalker
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
10/22/03 12:10am
Subject:
RE: Swordsman looking for Tartakovsky
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You'll just have to wait for episode III before you make that call. There's is a rather important choice Anakin makes in that film. And it deals with the relations in his life.
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