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Author	Topic: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
Master_Starwalker Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 9/28/06 12:36am Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
	AAL posted: Yeah but what i mean is the anakin we get to see in the movies is not a better duelist then yoda and sidious because he hasn't reached his full potential. By the time of episode 3, either sidious or yoda would have finished off anakin in a fair lightsaber duel. Oh and also am I correct for thinking that the jedi of the new order are much weaker overall then the jedi of the republic/empire ? They from what I've seen actually tend to be more powerful than the Old Order. However, there are less of them and it's definitely possible that as a rule they're weaker but that they have more exceptionally powerful people like Luke, Jacen, and Kyp. -----signature----- "Surely you must understand that the means are no less important than the ends." - Luke Skywalker "Creativity is piercing the mundane to find the marvelous." - Bill Moyers
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Darth_Kermit Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 9/30/06 11:43pm Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
	Here's my understanding of it. Jedi/Sith Rankings by force potential: Anakin Skywalker/Luke Skywalker/Leia Organa-Solo Yoda/Darth Sidious Mace Windu Count Dooku/Darth Vader(suited) Obi-wan Kenobi Darth Maul Qui-Gon Ginn I may be wrong about Leia, but short of the EU, I don't see why she should have any less potential than Luke. I'm also assuming that Padme's blood doesn't dilute Luke's potential, thus he can be everything that Anakin could have been in a better world. In a fair fight, I still can't see Obi-wan taking out Dooku. On the Invisible Hand, Dooku was toying with Obi-wan while fighting Anakin at the same time. I tend to agree with others (as much as I like Obi-wan) that Anakin vs. Obi-wan was only a fair fight because they were so close with each other, and knew each other so well. Obi-wan triumphed because of his wisdom, as their sword fighting was relatively even. But that's just what I think.
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JoeMacbeth Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 10/8/06 7:14am Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
	i've got to say anakin is the most powerful, not the greatest jedi but power wise he had it all. The reason that obi-wan and yoda were better than him was that he had no control, he was a loose cannon filled with raw untapped potential. Power-wise 1. Anakin/ Vader (weakened by the fact he's more machine than man) 2. Emperor 3. Yoda 4. Obi-Wan 5. Luke Skywalker i've excluded mace because i know everyone goes on about how great he is but in the movies he did jack all! -----signature----- The Sith will rise again! MUHAHAHAHAHA! "Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I get to beat you with 'till you ruttin' know who is in command here!" Member of the Acolytes of Revan Original Trilogy over Prequels any day of the week! Me
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gcramsey Registered: Oct '06	Date Posted: 10/12/06 2:30pm Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
	So, I have a question....... I'm new around here and I'm not that versed on the history and comics and stuff. I've seen and enjoyed the movies since I was a kid......it's been a while. I happened across this page and translated it from German using Google's translator. http://members.fortunecity.de/gorkos/Gorkos/body_gorkos.html It mentions this person "Benjamin Linus" as the largest Jedi of all time. More than Anakin Skywalker. It also says something about him living long before Anakin. Who is Linus and where did he come from? Is this somebody this dude made up? Thanks!
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Master_Starwalker Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 10/12/06 3:04pm Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi - Date Edited: 10/12/06 3:04pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Master_Starwalker
	It seems to me that's a German equivalent of Supershadow's page where it's all completely made up but presented as official. There's one difference though, I don't think that guy presents himself as Lucas's best friend whereas Shadow does. -----signature----- "Surely you must understand that the means are no less important than the ends." - Luke Skywalker "Creativity is piercing the mundane to find the marvelous." - Bill Moyers
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FireJade Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 10/14/06 10:59pm Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
	My bet would be on Luke (if we're talking about Jedi at their peak), for a number of reasons: 1) He's been forced to learn more in a shorter period of time than any other Jedi, at least among those we see in the movies. Over a period of four years, and not even four years of pure training, he learns enough to defeat Vader, who has defeated Jedi Masters even in the suit. His trials continue after RotJ, and frankly, the number of things he's had to go through is ridiculously high. As for learning, Luke not only had Yoda's teachings but also the Holocrons he's discovered, the knowledge left behind by Obi-Wan (although that may just be relevant to lightsabers - I'm not sure on that), and any knowledge exchanged with Old Republic Jedi like Brand, Ikrit, and even Vergere, to some extent. 2) Look at his accomplishments, i.e. the battles he fought with the Yuuzhan Vong in TUF as well as the pure power he uses in DN. Yes, C'boath was able to stop a missile of sorts. I'd argue that a B-Wing (I believe that was what Luke stopped in TSW?) has more powerful engines. In addition to that, he resists Raynar/UnuThul's Force push in TSW, which was backed up by the combined strength of the Killiks. One of the Killiks' greatest strengths was their hive mind and their ability to combine strengths against an opponent. Yet when Luke was prepared for Raynar's Force push, I believe it said that (I'm paraphrasing, as I don't have the book on hand) nothing, not even a black hole, could move him. I'd say that's pretty impressive. And beating the Emperor in a flat-out duel (fair, I think!) in the end of DE I is no easy task. 3) Luke vs. Jacen. Betrayal implies Luke has the upper hand, since he essentially defeats Jacen. For anyone who wants to nitpick on the fact that Luke/Jacen fought illusions that were only reflections of the true characters' abilities, I'm not going to protest! I just think that's evidence that shouldn't be discarded out of hand. However, it is possible, I think, for Jacen to surpass Luke in a flat-out duel... eventually. The breadth of Jacen's learning is much wider than that of Luke's, since Luke seems to be focusing more on refining his usage of the Force than going for pure power or expanding to non-Jedi learning. Assuming Jacen's flow-walking visions aren't delusional and are actually from the Force and the Force alone, it's possible for him to beat Luke in the future. Then again, it's possible there were extenuating circumstances. As far as EU goes, I think Luke has achieved the most and is the most powerful based on his Force potential and the level of learning he has reached. In Force potential alone, I'm under the impression Anakin Skywalker is the winner, but he wasn't able to fulfill much of his potential due to his injury and circumstances; I think it's fair to say he wasn't as power-hungry post-RotS as he was up until then. In learning, Yoda's ~900 years is quite a hefty collection of knowledge and refinement to surpass, yet the fact that Yoda didn't sweep Palpatine with a wave of a hand suggests he's neared the sort of limit his potential can support by then... if there is a limit. The last thing is the focus on learning. Throughout their lives as Jedi, Luke and Jacen have been pretty intent on expanding their cache of knowledge. I'm not sure I see that kind of constant search for self-improvement from Yoda or Mace Windu. Just my two cents, and if you actually read all this, thanks. -----signature----- Luke: Still, I think I make a pretty good Luke Skywalker. Mara: Of course you do. Luke: So before you began impersonating Mara, what was your real hair color? Mara: Farmboy, you're asking for a beating... --- LotF: Betrayal by Aaron Allston (2006), pg. 22
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Sinrebirth Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 10/15/06 10:13am Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
	Here's my problem here. Yoda beats Dooku, nominally, but loses to Sidious. Simple start. Anakin kills Dooku, and Obi-Wan loses to Dooku, twice. Obi-Wan kills Darth Maul. Mace doesn't kill Palpatine, thus dips below him. And he never killed Dooku when they fought in Obsession. Then, Obi-Wan, in counter to all sanity, beats Anakin. Not necessarily. Obi-Wan Kenobi only reaches his full potential when he fully embraces the Jedi way, as flawed as that may be. In the case, the moment when he turns away from his attachment to Anakin. Thats the potential fufillment point. Anakin, on the other hand, hadn't reached his full potential. So while Anakin would have eventually been stronger than everyone, he didn't have suffecient training nor time as a Dark Sider. Even then, he seems to be visibly withering as the Mustafar carries on. So, take your pick. Darth Vader, on the other hand, has his potential snipped in half by Mustafar, and takes forever to get back to his prior levels. Fortunately for him, he's now better than most anyway, by virtue of the Purge. So, as of the end of Ep III, it goes thus. Sidious Yoda Obi-Wan Anakin Dooku Mace General Greivous Most Other Jedi With Maul shoved in there probably above GG, but below Mace. Meanwhile, Luke comes alone, perfect and hale, and Sidious see's an opportunity, cue Luke beating and redeeming Anakin, though his potential is not truly reached until, at the earliest, 30 ABY. Luke's connection with Jacen Solo and Zonama Sekot seemingly becoming the upper point. Before that, he'd been on a veeery slow road where Gethzerion and Exar Kun could best him, and of course theres Palpatine - but he only overcame him with the help of his sister and other Jedi. Luke alone failed, we all know that, in Dark Empire. Now, mind you, Luke has capped off his potential by not embracing the Dark Side. Or, should I say, he's going for a different route. Jacen has been given a headstart by virtue of training form birth, thus meaning he's twenty years ahead of Luke was at his age. Thus, Jacen has the potential to match if not override Luke. Leia has a lot of catching up to do, and Jaina seems to be focusing elsewhere. Anakin, the seemingly more potent of the three Solo children, was a long way off. Fortunately, Ben Skywalker appears to be catching up quickly. Astonishing potential, its said. So, the most powerful Jedi are Luke and Jacen, followed by whoever, at the moment. Mara Jade being lower, by her own admittance, and Lomi Plo being above her easily. -----signature----- Sey's Sinre The First Canon Apologist The Missing Chapters of LotF: Invincible http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=28933751&brd=10477&replies=10 Chapter 4.5 is up! Now Featuring: Niathal, Daala, Syal, Wedge, Winter & Tycho!
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m1n1s1n__ Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 10/15/06 8:19pm Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
	Its hardly fair to say Anakin isn't more powerful then Obi-Wan, "only a sith deals in the absolute" Anakin lost because his judgement was clouded by his hatred/sith influence! If Anakine was to go against Obi-Wan in a plane old Jedi vs Jedi Spar I believe that Anakin would of one! and dont forget you cant just sum up a jedi by his Lightsabre skills there are stronger points to each jedi in what they are more skilled at! All Rounder would have to be Yoda or Qui Gon!
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FireJade Registered: Nov '05	Date Posted: 10/16/06 5:07pm Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
	Sinrebirth posted: Luke's connection with Jacen Solo and Zonama Sekot seemingly becoming the upper point. Before that, he'd been on a veeery slow road where Gethzerion and Exar Kun could best him, and of course theres Palpatine - but he only overcame him with the help of his sister and other Jedi. Luke alone failed, we all know that, in Dark Empire. Depends on how you look at it, I think. I don't think losing to Exar Kun is laughable. Exar Kun was definitely powerful in his time, and Kyp had the potential to take Luke down, especially given that Luke didn't yet have the knowledge how to deal with what Exar Kun/Kyp did in DA. As for Palpatine... I don't recall Leia and company helping Luke in the actual lightsaber duel against Palpatine. I think Luke would get full credit for that. Then again, here strikes the inconsistency of EU - he'd have to have uber-skills in DE I to take down Palpatine (in a young clone body, too!)... yet that should imply he is capable of routing opponents like Brakiss in TNR, which doesn't seem to be the case. As for falling to the Dark Side, it's the same mistake that others like Ulic Qel-Droma made millenia ago - thinking he could conquer it by understanding it. And Luke has made his way back to the Light Side since, avoiding the Dark Side in DN and establishing his own sort of moral code. Sinrebirth posted: Now, mind you, Luke has capped off his potential by not embracing the Dark Side. Or, should I say, he's going for a different route. Better the second. I'd have a problem with someone saying the first. :P Sinrebirth posted: Jacen has been given a headstart by virtue of training form birth, thus meaning he's twenty years ahead of Luke was at his age. Thus, Jacen has the potential to match if not override Luke. Eventually, it's a possibility. I'm in agreement that as of Bloodlines, which I will admit I haven't yet had the chance to read, it's too early to tell. I'm sure someone could make an argument about inherent connection to the Force, but does EU ever give any concrete evidence of any of that? O.o Unless there's some sort of authentic midichlorian database sitting out somewhere, I'm not sure the EU has actually out and out said that Luke has more (or less) potential than Jacen/Kyp/etc. Sinrebirth posted: Ben Skywalker appears to be catching up quickly. Astonishing potential, its said. May I ask where "astonishing potential" was mentioned? I'm just curious whether that was from Bloodlines. Sinrebirth posted: So, the most powerful Jedi are Luke and Jacen, followed by whoever, at the moment. Mara Jade being lower, by her own admittance, and Lomi Plo being above her easily. Speaking of Lomi Plo, how did she get so powerful? Was it just from being the Unseen Queen (and thus she was powerful due to the Killiks and would not perform anywhere near as well without them), or was there something I missed? m1n1s1n__ posted: Its hardly fair to say Anakin isn't more powerful then Obi-Wan, "only a sith deals in the absolute" Anakin lost because his judgement was clouded by his hatred/sith influence! If Anakine was to go against Obi-Wan in a plane old Jedi vs Jedi Spar I believe that Anakin would of one! and dont forget you cant just sum up a jedi by his Lightsabre skills there are stronger points to each jedi in what they are more skilled at! All Rounder would have to be Yoda or Qui Gon! True. I'm more inclined to think Obi-Wan won because of greater experience. I mean, there has to be some sort of reason he was a Master and Anakin wasn't. On the plane of power, I think this is a rather futile discussion unless we define what power means for a Jedi. Are we talking about lightsaber technique? Force power? Refinement in Force usage? Or even devotion to the Light Side/moral strength (since someone mentioned Luke falling to the Dark Side)? -----signature----- Luke: Still, I think I make a pretty good Luke Skywalker. Mara: Of course you do. Luke: So before you began impersonating Mara, what was your real hair color? Mara: Farmboy, you're asking for a beating... --- LotF: Betrayal by Aaron Allston (2006), pg. 22
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LostDog13 Registered: Oct '06	Date Posted: 10/26/06 6:54pm Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
	ok, new to the board; but this is a great topic for everyone. I still haven't read through all 6 pages yet, but it definitely seems that there needs to be a distinction between all-time and movies. You would have to look at EU for all-time, and that would be Luke. He went on to form the NJO, and since he did not have full knowledge of the old Jedi Order; study of the force (light and dark) was used. This is of course the same as the original Jedi Order, until the dark Jedi seperated and eventually became known as Sith (which is why Sith should be allowed in this discussion, as they are really just dark Jedi). If you want to stick solely to the movies, then Yoda is tops. Mace is second and Obi-Wan third. There will never be an unbiased list for this, and everyone's arguments will always be validated by a scene or line or book somewhere. To even start this comparison though, EU is required as there are far more Jedi and Sith than could ever possibly be even mentioned in movies. There also was a comment about how the original Jedi order fought off thousands of Sith where as the old order under Yoda could not defeat 2. Remember that the Sith also fought amongst themselves and depleted there numbers far more effectively than the Jedi.
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Darth_Monterrible Registered: Nov '06	Date Posted: 11/10/06 7:19am Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
	If you watch ep 3 closely, there is a moment half way into the fight between sidious and mace where the emperor could have struck him down and doesn't. It was necessary for mace to win that fight in order to set up Anakin's choice. In ep 2 Obe wan states to Anakin that Yoda is #1 with the lightsaber after they capture the assasin. If Yoda is #1 jedi with the lightsaber and he can only tie Sidious and Count Dooku that makes mace no better than 4th. We all saw what Dooku did to Obe wan, not once but twice. I agree with an earlier post that Dooku took it easy on Anakin in their second fight because it was part of the plan to capture anakin and turn him. He underestimated anakin and got his hands cut off then was betrayed by the emperor who planned on killing him all along. I think the movies are designed for the Sith to be more powerful than the Jedi and for the weakness of the Sith to be their greed, arrogance and lust for power. This is evident in the fight between anakin and Obe wan at the end of ep 3 where anakin is clearly superior during the whole fight yet loses at the end because he thinks he's more powerful than he really was. Obe wan jumped away from the platform because he was LOSING! He was on the run the entire duel. The started by the ship and he backpedeled all the way inside and outside again etc. Dooku loses to anakin because he unserestimates him as well. Darth Maul loses to Obe wan for his arrogance after he had him beat. To say Obe wan was a more powerful Jedi than Anakin is simply ridiculous. By his own admission, Obe wan was saved by anakin atleast 9 different times. The only aspect in which Obe one is superior to Anakin is in Force sense as he senses something is wrong when anakin is more of a dummy that gets played repeatedly by the emperor. At the end of the day, this debate will never trully end. There are too many variables and unanswered questions. In MY opinion, based on facts and conclusions that can be drawn, here are my rankings: 1- The Emperor 2- Darth Vader 3- Tie Count Dooku/Yoda 5- Anakin Skywalker 6- Tie Darth Maul/Mace Windu 8- Qui Gon 9- Luke Skywalker 10-Obe Wan Kenobe 11-General Grievous These are the rankings based on the movies. On the Expanded Galaxy version, the posibilities would be endless.
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DarthPower Registered: Mar '07	Date Posted: 3/21/07 5:57pm Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi - Date Edited: 3/21/07 6:06pm (1 edits total) Edited By: DarthPower
	Hello people. im new here. just wanted to tell u what i think, from what iv seen in the movies and what i know of the characters. Let me know what you think. The main jedis seem to have evil counter parts on a similar power level... that is starting with the most powerful on top: 1.Master Yoda - Darth Sidious 2.Anakin - Darth Vader 3.Mace Windu - Count Dooku 4.Obi-Wan - Darth Maul 5.Qui-Gon - General Greivous (even though they never met, thats the best evil match up i culd make for Qui-Gon in terms of power level) Yoda and Sidious were both the complete Masters of light and Dark sides and the most powerful of all. We know from Obi-Wan's statements in Episodes 1 and 2, that after Anakin, Yoda had the highest midi-chlorian count out of all the jedis, and that Yoda was the best swordsman. And Sidious matched him!!! Anakin had his evil counterpart inside him. even though he lost power when he became all cyborg, he probably made up for it as he mastered the Dark Side over the years. Also i dnt beleive Count Dooku held back against him. I think the whole point of that scen was to show the Audience just how powerful Anakin had become. Also I think Sidious purposely set that up because he forsaw that Anakin was now powerful enough to defeat him, and he wanted the more powerful apprentice. We know this when he talks to Grevious about the loss of Count Dooku..."it was a neccesary loss. soon i will have a new apprentice, one far younger and More Powerful!!!" Mace Windu and Count Dooku were both powerful, old and very learned in the ways of the force. both the next best Jedis after Yoda(until Anakin came along that is). Both were old friends as well. Mace might have been a little better, but then Dooku became even more powerful after joining the Dark Side, and we saw what an amazing fight he gave Yoda. I dnt think Mace who was the second most powerful Jedi for most the prequels could have given Yoda a better fight than that. I think the only reason Mace took the Emporer was because the Emporer went in full power at the beginning of the fight to quickly tke the other jedis, but then becaus of this weakened later in the fight, so Mace(already a very powerful jedi) could take him. We all know what a bad-ass Darth Maul was in Episode 1, and that Obi-Wan wuld not have stood a chance on his own. Even in the end Darth Maul won the lightsaber fight against him, and even threw away Obi-Wans weapon. Obi Wan only won becuase Qui-Gon's lightsaber was conviniently there and Maul got overconfident and cocky. BUT this is only because Obi Wan was young and just became a Jedi Knight in that episode. Im sure the Legendary Jedi Knight by episode 3 was a match for the episode 1 bad ass Darth Maul. and both were similar. Both powerful,but relatively young, great sworsmen, acrobatic, and Tactical. Obi-Wan defeated Anakin Tactically. thats the thing about being the perfect Jedi Knight, that you might still win against someone more powerful, like he did. I think Darth Maul was tactical the way he seperated Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, and just the way he beat them in general. and i just read someweher that he Tactically Adept. and as Obi-Wan's evil counterpart I would call Maul the Perfect Sith Lord. with his passion and loyalty to the Sith Ways, his passion to become the greatest Sith Warrior ever, and his Loyalty to his Master. I wuld match Qui-Gon with Greivous, because we know Greivous was no match for Obi-Wan, and Qui-Gon no match for Maul. but at the same time, we know Grievous could kill most Jedis. and Qui-Gon one of the best Jedis in the Galaxy. so their both better than the majority of jedis, but just not as good The Best!!! So in conclusion id say the Chosen One(Anakin/Vader) was more powerful than all Jedis and Siths, apart from THE MASTERS(Yoda and Sidious). However this is only because he Did not Reach his full Potential due to his injuries. also he might have aged quite quickly due to his broken body, which might expalin why Luke was more Powerful even in Return of the Jedi, when Luke just became a Jedi. Otherwise id say that Luke in Episode 6 was a match for Episode 3 Anakin, or Darth Vader in his PRIME(which was probably sometime between Episodes 3 and 4)! But Luke who did reach his full potential after ROTJ, and defeated Vader at such a young age, I think becomes THE MOST POWERFUL, even more Powerful than Yoda and Sidious, like Anakin/Vader would haev, had Obi-Wan not messed him up... haha!! and i dnt think Luke had an evil counterpart on his level. he was above all. but if i was to name him a counterpart of the same power level, then maybe id say the Cloned Emporer, in a young Powerful Clone body but with the same knowledge of the Force as the Old Sidious. well thats it people... srry for makin it too long, but i think iv sed everything there. hope uv enjoyed reading it.
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Lord_NoONE Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 3/21/07 6:03pm Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
	I'd say Darth Maul is the match for Qui-Gon. Vader is the match for Obi-Wan. And Anakin's match is the Emperor.
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DarthPower Registered: Mar '07	Date Posted: 3/23/07 3:13pm Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
	Lord_NoONE posted: I'd say Darth Maul is the match for Qui-Gon. Vader is the match for Obi-Wan. And Anakin's match is the Emperor. hmm yeah actually, Vader vs. Obi-Wan in Episode 4 was a pretty even fight. The only reason Vader seemed to have the edge was because Obi-Wans powers had weakened in his old age. and Anakin in Episode 3 culd have well taken on the Emporer, considering how he defeated Dooku. but Qui-Gon was no match for Darth Maul. not in episode 1 at least. Darth Maul seemed to have stamina and power to easily match Obi-Wan, and expertise in the Force and in fighting to easily match Qui-Gon in that episode. but i guess we dnt know how powerful Qui-Gon was in his prime.... say 10-15 years earlier. wuld be interesting to see Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon in their primes pit agianst each other or against the Episode 1 Darth Maul.
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vong333 Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 3/24/07 5:18pm Subject: RE: Confused About the Most Powerful Jedi
	The truth is are we talking about movie jedi/sith? Or the EU encantations of them were they can super jump, fly, force push for miles, create force storms, time travel, reaper, force harvester, clone stormtroopers with force powers, push 17 star destroyers? Which one?
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