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Topic:
Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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El Kabong
Registered:
Sep '99
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Date Posted:
5/4/07 1:47pm
Subject:
Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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My prediction for Star Wars? Prognosis: dead in two seasons*.
Consider for a moment the 2005+ series of Doctor Who. The mastermind behind the revival, Russel T Davies, is operating from a belief that the common television viewer wouldn’t have an emotional investment in happenings of characters outer space. "Who cares about the problems of the little blue men of Planet Zog", to roughly misquote him. That Doctor Who was at it's most scary, most effective when it was familiar settings, like a monster lurking the darkness of the subway tunnels (or a yeti on the Loo, as the oft quoted image). As a result, the production team has gone to great lengths to ground the series from the human perspective - Rose was built up as a companion far more than any other had been in the show's 40 year history (save for perhaps Ace and her back story). They built up Rose's family, and we got plenty of "Yeti on the Loo" moments.
Right or wrong, you have to admit that RTD was successful. He managed to take what was a basically 15 year dead franchise and revitalize it into one of the highest rated shows on UK television. Everyone - kids, adults, sad fanboys in their parents basements - seems to love the show. The show has gotten BAFTA's and Hugo awards left and right. He's managed to make the cult popular in the mainstream again.
Now, let's take a look at American science fiction on TV. I cant think of one mainstream success outside of perhaps the very first Star Trek that has ever run on US screens - and even that is mostly marginalized and looked down upon as a "Oh, it's just trekkies living in their parents basements!" cult more than real legitimate television.
Sure you get the new Battlestar Galactica, but that's still a VERY nitch market on a cable channel that gets 3 million viewers tops. Babylon 5 made it through it's five year arc, but only JUST barely - and even then it never made a big splash. The only reason that Enterprise and Voyager lasted as long as they did was because Paramount was milking the cash cow until dust squirted from it's teat. Without the Star Trek brand attached to it, sporting those kind of ratings, neither show would have made it out of first season.
Sure you can have television success, but it's on Fox, it's on the Sci-Fi channel - basically one step above UHF stations. Science Fiction on the Big Three networks has traditionally dried up and blown away usually within a season or two.
Which gets to my long-winded point - can Star Wars, in it's current form, survive on TV? Should it abandon its science fiction core and go for a more "human" one? Now being Long ago and Far Away makes it kind of tough to set things in a familier setting - no Daleks in Manhattan here - but I think we could manage. I'm not saying doing away with the trappings of Science Fiction, Doctor Who still has Cybermen, spaceships, time travel and parallel universes after all. But perhaps tring to pull it back and be more about the people? Should we get a "Rose Tyler" to act as a filter to the universe? More soap opera, less Big Picture (for lack of a better term).
*not really, but my high school english teacher always taught me to lead off with a dramatic statment that grabs the reader by the neck. (:
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
5/4/07 4:25pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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Interesting and thought-provoking post. I'm not really sure what my view is, yet, but thanks for starting a debate. 
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The Saga returns; August 15th 2008.
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Emp
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
5/4/07 6:01pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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The way current trends are going it may not make it to TV, we may simply buy and download it from SW.Com !
LucasTV
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Palpy Give Yourself to the Dark Side @ http://www.galacticempire.net "There's no mystical costuming group controls my destiny, it's all cigs and nonsense!"
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Mungo
Registered:
Apr '07
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Date Posted:
5/4/07 10:22pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
- Date Edited:
5/4/07 10:24pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Mungo
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I agree 100% with the OP. It's been proven that character-based sci-fi series can be made that have heart and are of high quality. The prime example is Firefly, which is the best televison show ever made. And before someone says it, you can't hold it against Firefly that it was cancelled because that was solely because of horrible marketing and pre-empting rather than an actual audience dissatisfaction.
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All I can say is that my life is pretty plain. I like watching puddles gather rain.
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Blackout
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
5/5/07 3:24am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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El Kabong posted:
can Star Wars, in it's current form, survive on TV? Should it abandon its science fiction core and go for a more "human" one?
It's my opinion that SW has always been more of a human drama and less of a Sci-Fi one anyway. The whole theme of rise, fall, rise and redepmtion is essentially a human story. Sure, there are spaceships and blasters, but they're not treated in a sci-fi manner, they're just props in the story. For example, "24" features cars, but it's not a show about cars. I think the same can be said of SW.
With that in mind, I think that when the show airs, those that watch it will find it as different from other Sci-Fi shows as the movies are from their contemporaries.
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Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus. ULCER are from Margate... http://www.ulcer8d.org.uk
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
5/5/07 10:16am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
- Date Edited:
5/5/07 10:18am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
G-FETT
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Well whilst I wouldn't go as far as El and bring in an "earthling" to the series, I do agree that TV requires very differant skills than movies. Movies work on a much more emotional level. With TV it's really about the script and the characters. As long as Lucas employs a good team of writers to make the characters well rounded and human, I think the series CAN work, but the truth will be in the writing.
I'm dying for the day when LFL announces who the people are that are going to write the scripts and it can set my mind at rest that they are skilled writers.
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I felt a great disturbance in the force. As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror. Then were suddenly silenced.
The Saga returns; August 15th 2008.
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Obi-Wan21
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/5/07 1:24pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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We have to realize that Star Wars is, in and of itself, very different from the norm of Sci-Fi, when compared to Battlestar, or Star Trek, Star Wars just has a more developed core and universe, so that it CAN last on television.
Star Wars has always been about the more human element, and, if set during the Dark Times as rumored, will add much depth and humanity to the characters than what one would normally see. Most sci-fi shows are laughable and pathetic, Star Wars is just a tad deeper than that. I honestly believe Star Wars could survive on network television, like Fox or some sort, it just has the strength and the impact of culture to attract attention, and be different from the norm.
We've already seen Heroes work, and that was unexpected, I think Star Wars is next in line to take Sci-Fi television out of this bad water it's been in for so long.
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
5/5/07 3:19pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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I've always maintained that Star Wars isn't really Sci-Fi at all. I mean yes, it has a lot of Sci-Fi'isms, but I think Star Wars is more Space Opera/Fantasy, than Sci-Fi. Thematically, Star Wars has far more in common with The Lord Of The Rings, than Star Trek, IMO.
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I felt a great disturbance in the force. As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror. Then were suddenly silenced.
The Saga returns; August 15th 2008.
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AL_Patterson
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
5/5/07 8:03pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
- Date Edited:
5/5/07 8:06pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
AL_Patterson
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Most TV shows set in Space do bomb quite badly and most suck as well.
I do think this one could work if done correctly. But first off, it already has a strike against it because it's not going to be about the film characters but about a new set of characters that no one's ever heard of. All these years Lucas has stated that Star Wars is purely about the Skywalkers now all of a sudden it's about new people.
Well, it's that time of year again. Get the cow ready for milking.
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
5/6/07 4:15am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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AL_Patterson posted:
Well, it's that time of year again. Get the cow ready for milking.
I'm sorry?
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I felt a great disturbance in the force. As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror. Then were suddenly silenced.
The Saga returns; August 15th 2008.
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Barriss_Coffee
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
5/6/07 9:28am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
- Date Edited:
5/6/07 9:28am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Barriss_Coffee
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That's the third time that expression was used here in the last two days.... odd.
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BlackPool
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Mar '00
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Date Posted:
5/6/07 10:51am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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As long as they don't put it on a Fox station it might stand a chance.
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Lavaman
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
5/6/07 4:20pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
- Date Edited:
5/6/07 4:25pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lavaman
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El Kabong posted:
My prediction for Star Wars? Prognosis: dead in two seasons*.
Consider for a moment the 2005+ series of Doctor Who. The mastermind behind the revival, Russel T Davies, is operating from a belief that the common television viewer wouldn’t have an emotional investment in happenings of characters outer space. "Who cares about the problems of the little blue men of Planet Zog", to roughly misquote him. That Doctor Who was at it's most scary, most effective when it was familiar settings, like a monster lurking the darkness of the subway tunnels (or a yeti on the Loo, as the oft quoted image). As a result, the production team has gone to great lengths to ground the series from the human perspective - Rose was built up as a companion far more than any other had been in the show's 40 year history (save for perhaps Ace and her back story). They built up Rose's family, and we got plenty of "Yeti on the Loo" moments.
Right or wrong, you have to admit that RTD was successful. He managed to take what was a basically 15 year dead franchise and revitalize it into one of the highest rated shows on UK television. Everyone - kids, adults, sad fanboys in their parents basements - seems to love the show. The show has gotten BAFTA's and Hugo awards left and right. He's managed to make the cult popular in the mainstream again.
Now, let's take a look at American science fiction on TV. I cant think of one mainstream success outside of perhaps the very first Star Trek that has ever run on US screens - and even that is mostly marginalized and looked down upon as a "Oh, it's just trekkies living in their parents basements!" cult more than real legitimate television.
Sure you get the new Battlestar Galactica, but that's still a VERY nitch market on a cable channel that gets 3 million viewers tops. Babylon 5 made it through it's five year arc, but only JUST barely - and even then it never made a big splash. The only reason that Enterprise and Voyager lasted as long as they did was because Paramount was milking the cash cow until dust squirted from it's teat. Without the Star Trek brand attached to it, sporting those kind of ratings, neither show would have made it out of first season.
Sure you can have television success, but it's on Fox, it's on the Sci-Fi channel - basically one step above UHF stations. Science Fiction on the Big Three networks has traditionally dried up and blown away usually within a season or two.
Which gets to my long-winded point - can Star Wars, in it's current form, survive on TV? Should it abandon its science fiction core and go for a more "human" one? Now being Long ago and Far Away makes it kind of tough to set things in a familier setting - no Daleks in Manhattan here - but I think we could manage. I'm not saying doing away with the trappings of Science Fiction, Doctor Who still has Cybermen, spaceships, time travel and parallel universes after all. But perhaps tring to pull it back and be more about the people? Should we get a "Rose Tyler" to act as a filter to the universe? More soap opera, less Big Picture (for lack of a better term).
*not really, but my high school english teacher always taught me to lead off with a dramatic statment that grabs the reader by the neck. (:
I don't get your logic? You say a Star Wars TV Series is doomed to fail in 2 seasons, yet you mention Babylon 5 which ran 5 seasons. You say "JUST barely" 5 seasons, so what? 5 seasons is still 5 seasons, the same amount of seasons that Lucas wants to go with the Live Action Star Wars Series. Also, you forgot to mention Star Gate, as well as Star Trek: The Next Generation which went beyond 5 seasons. Yes the Star Trek name is Iconic, but Star Wars is every bit as Iconic.
I agree that unlike the Movies, a Star Wars TV Series will have to rely mostly on Character development and dialogue, but being Star Wars it will include good action scenes as well. The fact that Star Wars has exciting action scenes, gives it an advantage over Star Trek, which rarely has any good action scenes(I love Star Trek by the way). Yes Lucas will have to rely on good writers over action with a long running TV Series, but don't forget Lucas is in control of this, and he has the resources to back it up. Also, Lucas will not have to pay any mark up cost for effects work, since ILM is his Effects House. When you look at the good quality of effects work with shows like BSG and Star Gate, there is no reason why Lucas can't do better. Of course we will only know for sure how well the TV Series does when it starts airing, but come on, this is Star Wars, how could it not succeed? Even with the small chance that the ratings are low, Lucas will release the Series direct to DVD. Lucas will get his 5 seasons either way, if he wishes.
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I married a Twi-lek
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
5/7/07 5:14am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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Well put Lavaman. A live action Star Wars series clearly more going for it than most hitherto Sci-Fi series.
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I felt a great disturbance in the force. As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror. Then were suddenly silenced.
The Saga returns; August 15th 2008.
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
5/7/07 5:45am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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All in all, tv is doomed to fail. With youtube being more popular now than ever everyone will submit to watching it on youtube whenever they want. Also for plot lines, I dont believe SW live action has a tv feel to it. I understood CW as a show because its a quick little cartoon shot versus a half hour of actors. I just alltogether have a bad feeling of SW tv
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'You don't know the Power of the Darkside!'-Darth Vader
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The2ndQuest
Title: :
-Games
-LACWAC
-Lit Mod of Death
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
5/7/07 1:11pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
- Date Edited:
5/7/07 1:14pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
The2ndQuest
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I think it's a flawed logic point to begin a debate on that something has to be one one of the "big three
" networks to be considered a success or survive- who cares if it's on Fox or Sci-fi or HBO so long as the show gets to tell it's story? 75% of the people who will ultimately see the series will watch it for the first time on DVD anyways, so the channel really is irrelevant.
As for "grounding the series", the SW series actually has that opportunity if it heads closer into OT territory where you had more normal people like the pilots, officers and smugglers to help identify with (the lack of which seems to be one of the more consistant complaints people had about the PT, in that it's main focus was more on the superhuman characters that are harder to assciate with). A good mix of the two character types would achieve the "grounding" that some suggest is needed, but would also properly reflect the Tv series as being transitory from the PT style and supercharacter focus to the OT's style and normal person focus.
But it has to be character focused- it's how shows like Babylon 5, Farscape, Stargate and Battlestar Galactica have succeeded and endured, whereas technobabble-centric stuff like the recent Trek series degrades into camp and cliche and ultimately niche and cancellation.
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Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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