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Topic:
Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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Darth_Shpydar
Registered:
Oct '06
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Date Posted:
5/7/07 1:44pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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The2ndQuest posted:
But it has to be character focused- it's how shows like Babylon 5, Farscape, Stargate and Battlestar Galactica have succeeded and endured, whereas technobabble-centric stuff like the recent Trek series degrades into camp and cliche and ultimately niche and cancellation.
Agreed wholeheartedly (well, except for the Enterprise mention, as its strong-but-incomplete characterization is often overlooked).
I say this to friends all the time, that in order for a Sci-Fi show (and strictly speaking, i don't think of SW as sci-fi per se, but just for sake of discussion...) to truly be great and establish an audience and/or following, it MUST have strong/good characters and characterization. The shows you mention all have/had that element, as did Trek:DS9, X-Files and Firefly. Without strong characterization, all you get is inconsequential fluff with pretty spaceships and lasers.
And on the network issue -- Fox is at this point pretty strongly established (and occasionally beats the "Big 3" in the ratings), so to exclude it from "major" networks is silly. So is branding cable networks such as Sci-Fi Channel as irrelevant, as most of these "smaller" cable stations are owned by larger companies which also run one of the "Big 3" -- eg, Sci-Fi Channel is owned by NBC Universal, which has allowed for the occasional high-profile airings of Battlestar Galactica during NBC prime-time.
But anyway, the station is irrelevant -- not just because what 2Q said is true about DVD, but because of the success that sci-fi in particular has had in syndication -- ie, no "network" per se. Trek:TNG and Trek:DS9 were both wholly syndicated and ran 7 seasons each. Stargate SG-1 -- on its what, 10th Season -- started out on Showtime (i think thye aired the original pilot movie, if memory serves), but established itself in syndication before being snatched up by Sci-Fi Channel. Where the show airs is irrelevant.
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The2ndQuest
Title: :
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-Lit Mod of Death
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
5/7/07 1:49pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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Yeah, SG-1's first 5 seasons were on Showtime, then Sci-Fi picked it up for it's second 5 seasons, plus the Atlantis and (forthcoming) Universe spinoffs, but it's always had a strong syndication run.
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Mungo
Registered:
Apr '07
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Date Posted:
5/7/07 2:46pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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Blackout posted:
El Kabong posted:
can Star Wars, in it's current form, survive on TV? Should it abandon its science fiction core and go for a more "human" one?
It's my opinion that SW has always been more of a human drama and less of a Sci-Fi one anyway. The whole theme of rise, fall, rise and redepmtion is essentially a human story. Sure, there are spaceships and blasters, but they're not treated in a sci-fi manner, they're just props in the story. For example, "24" features cars, but it's not a show about cars. I think the same can be said of SW.
And that is what all good sci-fi is. 
Obi-Wan21 posted:
I honestly believe Star Wars could survive on network television, like Fox or some sort, it just has the strength and the impact of culture to attract attention, and be different from the norm.
Never underestimate the power of FOX. 
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
5/8/07 8:27am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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The2ndQuest posted:
I think it's a flawed logic point to begin a debate on that something has to be one one of the "big three
" networks to be considered a success or survive- who cares if it's on Fox or Sci-fi or HBO so long as the show gets to tell it's story? 75% of the people who will ultimately see the series will watch it for the first time on DVD anyways, so the channel really is irrelevant.
Yep, Lucas will get it out on DVD however much of a sucess or failure its regarded as.
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Darthsuggs
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
5/8/07 11:10am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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Farscape was a solid character driven show and lasted 4 seasons.
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vong333
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
5/8/07 1:58pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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I think that the clone wars cartoon series will rock and we will get up to if not close to 100 episodes. The live action, well if they do it like Surface, where you teling 4 different stories at the same time, it could work. That one I will hold my judgement. What I really like to see is another 30 minutes animated tv series set between Episode 4 and 6. That would be cool, especially if the can cross tell stories that start off on the clone wars cartoon series and even shown on the live action one. That would be great.
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DarthMateous
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/8/07 4:10pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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It'll definitely be interesting to see how this goes, especially because this version of the story is going to feature mostly new characters. Regardless, one thing is for sure, there will be plenty of fanboys that will bitch about every little thing about it.
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
5/8/07 4:28pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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DarthMateous posted:
Regardless, one thing is for sure, there will be plenty of fanboys that will bitch about every little thing about it.
That goes without saying, unfortunatly. 
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I felt a great disturbance in the force. As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror. Then were suddenly silenced.
The Saga returns; August 15th 2008.
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Jango_Fettish
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/8/07 5:01pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
- Date Edited:
5/8/07 5:03pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jango_Fettish
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G-FETT posted:
DarthMateous posted:
Regardless, one thing is for sure, there will be plenty of fanboys that will bitch about every little thing about it.
That goes without saying, unfortunatly.
It is the sad truth. No offense to the poster, but even this thread is proof of that. Star Wars has some very pessimistic fans. It is the biggest movie property of all time. Marketing, such as action figures and such, is still going very strong and bringing in huge amounts of cash at all times. This show is going to be huge, it will be absolutely nothing like other Sci-fi shows in ratings, save for maybe Lost and Heroes. Even then, in its first season at least I bet it gets better ratings. Look how much ROTS made, that was only 2 years ago. They're making Star Wars stamps for God sakes, how can you compare it's success to Farscape?!
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Darth-Erevos
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
5/9/07 7:53am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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Interesting topic indeed that brought up some very good issues for debate.
Firstly, IMO SW is something absolutely UNIQUE. It "plays" in a category of its own. It's called space opera. It's like science-fiction/heroic fantasy/classic tragedies blended together. Nothing looks alike and nothing can be compared with it. So, SW in TV would be a phenomenon that up to a point cannot be predicted.
Secondly, Lucas..... is Lucas. He has a dream (lol), and he does not give a **** what other sci-fi series are doing. You may like his view and you may not. But surely his series arent going to follow an already established route (like firefly and battlestar galactica wich both i find dreadful by the way).
Thirdly, the Rose Tyler analogy i think is very good. I 'm sure that we ll have at least one very groundy, earthly character in the series, probably equally young and naive at first. (We had Luke in ANH).
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
5/9/07 8:41am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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Jango_Fettish posted:
No offense to the poster, but even this thread is proof of that. Star Wars has some very pessimistic fans
I don't think theres anything overly pessimistic about this thread, though. Its natural that people have concerns about Star Wars moving into the television arena. I think this thread has actually opened up a very godd debate.
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I felt a great disturbance in the force. As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror. Then were suddenly silenced.
The Saga returns; August 15th 2008.
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El Kabong
Registered:
Sep '99
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Date Posted:
5/9/07 11:59am
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
- Date Edited:
5/9/07 12:05pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
El Kabong
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Lavaman posted:
I don't get your logic? You say a Star Wars TV Series is doomed to fail in 2 seasons, yet you mention Babylon 5 which ran 5 seasons. You say "JUST barely" 5 seasons, so what? 5 seasons is still 5 seasons, the same amount of seasons that Lucas wants to go with the Live Action Star Wars Series.
I mean just barely as in the show was amazingly lucky to have gotten as far as it did (and judging from the follow up series that died for one reason or another, clearly that luck ran dry). The syndication network folded, nearly taking the show with it. It was essentially canceled at the end of season 4 until a last moment deal with TNT came through. Its a set of circumstances I don't see happening again any time soon.
And even after all that, it's still a mostly cult show largely unknown by the television audience at large. Ask the average man on the street what B5 is, and 9 out of 10 you'll get a "Wha? Huh?" response at best.
Lavaman posted:
Also, you forgot to mention Star Gate, as well as Star Trek: The Next Generation which went beyond 5 seasons. Yes the Star Trek name is Iconic, but Star Wars is every bit as Iconic.
Iconic, yes - and I'd say that it's even more accepted by the general public than Trek is. Trek has that stigma of unwashed nerds living in their parents basement memorizing obscure facts about a novel that 50 people read back in the seventies. So right there half the work is done.
(Star Wars just has nerds who line up for a movie six months before it's release. )
I'm just thinking that they should shoot for a wider demographic than just the Star Wars nerds. Back to Doctor Who, the producer has said that while it would be nice to make a show that the fans love is great, to play to that audience exclusively at the expense of the viewers who don't know a monster that appeared in one story from season 12 over 25 years ago - that is the fastest way to produce a failure.
I'd just like to see Wars enjoy widespread success AND get the hardcore nerds at the same time too.
The2ndQuest posted:
I think it's a flawed logic point to begin a debate on that something has to be one one of the "big three" networks to be considered a success or survive- who cares if it's on Fox or Sci-fi or HBO so long as the show gets to tell it's story? 75% of the people who will ultimately see the series will watch it for the first time on DVD anyways, so the channel really is irrelevant.
I suppose that if it were a 'big fish in a small pond' - 4 million people on Sci-fi (which are fantastic numbers for that channel) would be mid season death for a show on any other network - and survive that way, then we'd be golden. And while the DVD market can be a powerful factor on a show's future (the reversal of the Family Guy cancellation, for example), I don't think we're quite there were a cost intensive show like Star Wars can be supported by home sales alone. Unless, of course, George wants to go the X-Box route, where Microsoft can spend 10 years losing money in order to buy their way into the console market.
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El Kabong
Registered:
Sep '99
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Date Posted:
5/9/07 12:01pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
- Date Edited:
5/9/07 12:02pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
El Kabong
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Whoops - double post. Sorry.
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Darth_Sidious-
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
5/9/07 3:27pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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95% of the tripe on Sci-Fi channel is doomed to fail. I hate most of those terrible low-rate Scifi shows, but I have a feeling this one will actually be good.
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DarthBoba
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
5/9/07 4:20pm
Subject:
RE: Star Wars TV doomed to fail?
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Mungo posted:
Blackout posted:
El Kabong posted:
can Star Wars, in it's current form, survive on TV? Should it abandon its science fiction core and go for a more "human" one?
It's my opinion that SW has always been more of a human drama and less of a Sci-Fi one anyway. The whole theme of rise, fall, rise and redepmtion is essentially a human story. Sure, there are spaceships and blasters, but they're not treated in a sci-fi manner, they're just props in the story. For example, "24" features cars, but it's not a show about cars. I think the same can be said of SW.
And that is what all good sci-fi is.
Obi-Wan21 posted:
I honestly believe Star Wars could survive on network television, like Fox or some sort, it just has the strength and the impact of culture to attract attention, and be different from the norm.
Never underestimate the power of FOX.
What the hell's wrong with Fox? Back in the nineties, Fox was an awesome network, imo. Simpsons, X-Files, and Millenium were practically all I watched. 
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