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Topic:
The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
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DarthBoba
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
6/22/07 8:22am
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
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That'd be cool.
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Lavaman
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
6/22/07 2:35pm
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
- Date Edited:
6/22/07 2:59pm (4 edits total)
Edited By:
Lavaman
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DarthBoba posted:
Well, the formation of the Rebellion is out as a direct part of the story, at least until fairly late in its run it seems to me. Prior canon's established that the Rebel Alliance was formally founded literally days before ANH out of (correct me if I'm wrong) several different Rebel groups.
Plus of course, there's the fact that taking the DS1 plans was the Rebellion's first victory against the Empire.
What prior Canons? EU? Don't get me wrong, I like some EU, but the only true Canon is what Lucas creates. The Rebellion starts whenever Lucas says it does. In fact we see the formation of the Rebellion's leadership in deleted scenes on the ROTS DVD. It seems to me that Lucas is setting up the TV Series from those scenes.
I personally like the idea of Bail Organa and Mon Mothma starting to plot out the Rebellion, and recruit members imediately after the formation of the Empire(ROTS). Why would they wait 20 years? I can't see Organa not making a move for so long.
My guess about the Series is that Lucas will show how the Empire was doomed to fail from the beginning(just like the Roman Empire, which Lucas himself said inspired him). I think that showing the Empire slowly falling apart from within, and juxtaposing this with the growing strength and unity of the Rebellion at the same time, would be interesting. Or at least that is the direction that I would like to see the Show go in. 
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The2ndQuest
Title: :
-Games
-LACWAC
-Lit Mod of Death
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
6/22/07 4:17pm
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
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Lavaman posted:
What prior Canons? EU? Don't get me wrong, I like some EU, but the only true Canon is what Lucas creates. The Rebellion starts whenever Lucas says it does. In fact we see the formation of the Rebellion's leadership in deleted scenes on the ROTS DVD. It seems to me that Lucas is setting up the TV Series from those scenes.
I personally like the idea of Bail Organa and Mon Mothma starting to plot out the Rebellion, and recruit members imediately after the formation of the Empire(ROTS). Why would they wait 20 years? I can't see Organa not making a move for so long.
You need to keep in mind the Rebellion didn't have it's "first major victory" till shortly before ANH according to the films, so it's unlikely it actively existed until much closer to ANH, with seeds and smaller groups like the hinted meetings in ROTS, occuring the timespan enough to go from "thunderous applause" of the empire to the level of discontent needed for open rebellion.
Plus, we don't know exactly how the TV show will function in relation to the established canon categories, so it's premature at this point to discount EU influence.
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
6/23/07 1:47pm
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
- Date Edited:
6/23/07 3:15pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
G-FETT
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Lavaman posted:
My guess about the Series is that Lucas will show how the Empire was doomed to fail from the beginning(just like the Roman Empire, which Lucas himself said inspired him). I think that showing the Empire slowly falling apart from within, and juxtaposing this with the growing strength and unity of the Rebellion at the same time, would be interesting. Or at least that is the direction that I would like to see the Show go in.
Yeah, that would be pretty awesome. But the thing is, the Rebellion should spring out of lots of smaller, slinter groups thta are initially crushed under the strength of the Empire.
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Lavaman
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
6/23/07 2:04pm
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
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The2ndQuest posted:
Lavaman posted:
What prior Canons? EU? Don't get me wrong, I like some EU, but the only true Canon is what Lucas creates. The Rebellion starts whenever Lucas says it does. In fact we see the formation of the Rebellion's leadership in deleted scenes on the ROTS DVD. It seems to me that Lucas is setting up the TV Series from those scenes.
I personally like the idea of Bail Organa and Mon Mothma starting to plot out the Rebellion, and recruit members imediately after the formation of the Empire(ROTS). Why would they wait 20 years? I can't see Organa not making a move for so long.
You need to keep in mind the Rebellion didn't have it's "first major victory" till shortly before ANH according to the films, so it's unlikely it actively existed until much closer to ANH, with seeds and smaller groups like the hinted meetings in ROTS, occuring the timespan enough to go from "thunderous applause" of the empire to the level of discontent needed for open rebellion.
Plus, we don't know exactly how the TV show will function in relation to the established canon categories, so it's premature at this point to discount EU influence.
I am not totally discounting EU; I am just saying that Lucas does have the final say, not EU. 
The first major victory of the Rebellion is just that, their first victory. It would take a long time for them to mount a major offensive against the Empire, so to me it would seem that the Rebellion would have to have started long before A New Hope. Maybe I am not understanding what the true Rebellion is; I personally consider the meetings of Organa and Mothma to be the start of the Rebellion. Also, don't forget that the Rebels had Y-Wings in their fleet, which are an older model than the X-Wings, and that they had a previous Base on Dantooine before Yavin IV. Also, Luke already knows about the Rebellion all the way out on Tatooine; he mentions it in A New Hope. This tells me that the Rebellion have been around for a long time.
Then again, maybe I am just confused. Either way I just wish we would get more info on the show. 
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Lavaman
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
6/23/07 2:32pm
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
- Date Edited:
6/23/07 2:40pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Lavaman
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G-FETT posted:
[quote=Lavaman
My guess about the Series is that Lucas will show how the Empire was doomed to fail from the beginning(just like the Roman Empire, which Lucas himself said inspired him). I think that showing the Empire slowly falling apart from within, and juxtaposing this with the growing strength and unity of the Rebellion at the same time, would be interesting. Or at least that is the direction that I would like to see the Show go in.
Yeah, that would be pretty awesome. But the thing is, the Rebellion should spring out of lots of smaller, slinter groups thta are initially crushed under the strength of the Empire.[/quote]
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Lavaman Response:
But Bail Organa and Mon Mothma were the first to rebel against Palpatine, and get a list of supporters in the Senate.
I guess there could have been some splinter groups banding together before Organa and Mothma that we haven't seen yet, because they were off screen. 
I still think that the Rebellion started with Bail Organa and Mon Mothma, but you guys are raising interesting questions about splinter groups. I never really thought about how Organa and Motma would coordinate everybody together. There are a lot of different individuals, from all walks of life, across the Galaxy. 
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WookieeWarrior9
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
6/23/07 2:46pm
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
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Well a lot of what happens depends on when exactly all this takes place in the 19 year gap. Just guessing, but I wouldn't be surprised to see this take place about 5-10 years after ROTS. Personally, I doubt it would be in the years just before ANH.
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Willy-Wonka-nobi
Registered:
Feb '04
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Date Posted:
6/23/07 7:34pm
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
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The2ndQuest posted:
You need to keep in mind the Rebellion didn't have it's "first major victory" till shortly before ANH according to the films, so it's unlikely it actively existed until much closer to ANH, with seeds and smaller groups like the hinted meetings in ROTS, occuring the timespan enough to go from "thunderous applause" of the empire to the level of discontent needed for open rebellion.
Plus, we don't know exactly how the TV show will function in relation to the established canon categories, so it's premature at this point to discount EU influence.
It's premature at this point to COUNT it, as well. We just don't know yet. I love EU as much as the next guy, but I think Lucas could throw some of that era out the window.
It is just like I said regarding the 3D Series continuity, we just don't know yet. Lucas could easily retcon the "first major victory" thing. And he is not above retconning his own movies. We have already seen that!
I agree that it seemed like in the deleted scenes, he was trying to set it up as if the beginnings of the rebellion would happen soon. That doesn't mean they were the full on "Alliance to Restore the Republic", in fact, that seems an easy way to retcon the "first major victory" right there. Maybe that is the first victory since they formally declared themselves thel Rebel Alliance.
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The2ndQuest
Title: :
-Games
-LACWAC
-Lit Mod of Death
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
6/24/07 1:24am
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
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Yeah I think there's just confusion over the use of "Rebellin" versus "Rebel Alliance". The former was around for a seemingly long time in various uncoordinated forms until the latter unified things, but that unification didn't officially occur until a few years before ANH.
Willy-Wonka-nobi posted:
It's premature at this point to COUNT it, as well. We just don't know yet. I love EU as much as the next guy, but I think Lucas could throw some of that era out the window.
I agree, though unless Lucas dictates something himself, LFL's continuity department would seemingly consider the EU account of things, which in turn, theoretically, binds other people working on the show. But that can change depending on where certain things lie, like where the showrunner Lucas will hand things over to falls into the heirarchy of things. So it's certainly a grey area that can make you go cross-eyed at times  
So, yeah, we can't discount it, we can't count on it...so I guess that just leaves with "something to consider"
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redxavier
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
6/24/07 6:27am
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
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I hope the TV show will be in the style of a comic ongoing like Dark Horse's Republic and Empire, with arcs developing particular characters covering varying numbers of episodes (a bunch of mini-series then I guess) and a few one shots thrown in every now and again to create further variety.
Different types of stories and also different ways of telling the stories would result in multiple Macguffin devices.
I think that, at least visually, it will resemble Dark Horse's Dark Times series, and like that excellent series have a main story following a fugitive Jedi who falls in with a gang of smugglers/other group of colourful and alien characters.
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vong333
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
6/24/07 8:48am
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
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No please not like Dark Times. They are always delayed!
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Lavaman
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
6/24/07 11:58am
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
- Date Edited:
6/24/07 11:59am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lavaman
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Willy-Wonka-nobi posted:
The2ndQuest posted:
You need to keep in mind the Rebellion didn't have it's "first major victory" till shortly before ANH according to the films, so it's unlikely it actively existed until much closer to ANH, with seeds and smaller groups like the hinted meetings in ROTS, occuring the timespan enough to go from "thunderous applause" of the empire to the level of discontent needed for open rebellion.
Plus, we don't know exactly how the TV show will function in relation to the established canon categories, so it's premature at this point to discount EU influence.
It's premature at this point to COUNT it, as well. We just don't know yet. I love EU as much as the next guy, but I think Lucas could throw some of that era out the window.
It is just like I said regarding the 3D Series continuity, we just don't know yet. Lucas could easily retcon the "first major victory" thing. And he is not above retconning his own movies. We have already seen that!
I agree that it seemed like in the deleted scenes, he was trying to set it up as if the beginnings of the rebellion would happen soon. That doesn't mean they were the full on "Alliance to Restore the Republic", in fact, that seems an easy way to retcon the "first major victory" right there. Maybe that is the first victory since they formally declared themselves thel Rebel Alliance.
How would starting the Rebel Alliance with Organa and Mothma's first meeting be a "retcon" of the first major victory. The statement first major victory, implys that there were other SMALLER victories earlier in the timeline.
Also, as I said before, how do you explain the former Rebel Base on Dantooine that Leia mentioned in A New Hope. Unless someone can explain that away, Dantooine is proof that the Rebel Alliance existed long before A New Hope.
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
6/24/07 12:24pm
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
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Lavaman posted:
Also, as I said before, how do you explain the former Rebel Base on Dantooine that Leia mentioned in A New Hope. Unless someone can explain that away, Dantooine is proof that the Rebel Alliance existed long before A New Hope.
Good point. I hadn't thought about Dantooine.
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-polymath-
Title: SFF: Films/TV Trivia Game Host
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
6/24/07 1:00pm
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
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Doesn't the opening crawl to ANH confirm that the Alliance existed and was fighting against the Empire before the events of Episode IV? I am quite certain that it does. I am hopeful that Dantooine will play some role in the series. I am just unsure what the driving force of the series will be. Will it be the formation of the Alliance or will it be the survival of some of the Jedi? I just have no clue...but Dantooine is intriguing.
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Emperor Pinguin
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
6/25/07 1:11am
Subject:
RE: The Maguffin/Driving force of the TV series
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Being from Holland I grew up with stories of the Dutch resistance in WOII. Although the "first major victory" was after five years of occupation by the Germans, a lot of small battles where fought and won or lost.
Back to fiction....
Seems to me that a rebellion can exist even without winning major battles. Resisting against the Empire (in the Senate) much like the Seperatists against the Republic.
From day one of the Empire, systems will rebellion against it. Seeing how the Troopers gain power of most planets/systems, shutting down all droid factories and the Empire gaining control of all, it would be hard to have any victory at all. Things take time, even in SF....
EP
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