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Topic:
*NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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WookieeWarrior9
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
4/10 9:12pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
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Well when I think of film noir, I immediately think of crime and the underworld. It's funny that people are complaining about a criminal based show, yet the most popular character is easily Han Solo and he was employed by a crime lord. It's not like he was a model citizen, either. Just give us a Han knock off (like Dash Rendar) and keep the show somewhat lighthearted and they'll have a great show.
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Darth-Wyrm
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/11 3:21pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
- Date Edited:
4/11 3:23pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Darth-Wyrm
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While I am FIRMLY in the camp that thinks this show will not succeed without at least one lightsaber wielding protagonist, and maybe one lightsaber wielding antagonist, I think it's really bizarre for fans to be talking about this show being a bust or a flop or anything like that based on the VERY LITTLE information we have at this point.
It's absolutely impossible to tell how good or bad a show will be based on speculation and rumors. This show isn't scheduled to air for over a year. Actors haven't even been cast and the scripts are being written as we speak. Let's try to keep the fanboy negativity to a minimum huh?
If you're inclined to hate it because you're just negative, then that's your problem.
I have my concerns, but I think those who are criticizing us for wanting Jedi are confused. At least personally, I'm not asking for large scale Jedi/Sith wars. That wouldn't make any sense. But you can't have ZERO lightsaber wielding, force-using main characters. That makes no sense at all. That's what Star Wars is. Even if a significant part of ANH did not involve Jedi, Star Wars would not have been anywhere near as successful if Vader, Ben Kenobi and The Force were not a part of ANH.
It's ok to have sprinkles of Jedi and force users in the show...small specks are fine...but the specks have to be there. It's not Star Wars if it's not.
I REALLY hope we get the Secret Apprentice from TFU. He doesn't have to appear often. He can appear for 2 minutes every 8 episodes. But his presence as Vader's right hand would make the show all the more interesting. Kind of like the smoke monster in Lost. It doesn't show up often, but when it does everyone is curious as all heck about it.
That's all I'm asking for. For ONE former/secret Jedi in hiding amongst what will undoubtedly be a group of protagonists. He/she doesn't use his/her powers often, and will only use them in desperate circumstances (because he/she's in hiding after all). And at least some appearances by someone evil with force abilities.
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Earthknight
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
4/12 2:53am
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
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I just want to see stuff that has significance and will play a role in the saga. At least show us important stuff. Not boring crime stuff. Tell the truth, in Shadows of the Empire, who's segments were more interesting? Xizor and his trips to the opera? Or Vader's segments?
Vader of course. Instead of getting an hour of interesting stuff, we'll get an hour of stuff similar to Xizor's boring scheming and opera visits. Fett better be the main star to keep things from being a complete snooz fest.
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Master_Fwiffo
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
4/12 11:27am
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
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Earthknight posted:
I just want to see stuff that has significance and will play a role in the saga. At least show us important stuff. Not boring crime stuff. Tell the truth, in Shadows of the Empire, who's segments were more interesting? Xizor and his trips to the opera? Or Vader's segments?
Vader of course. Instead of getting an hour of interesting stuff, we'll get an hour of stuff similar to Xizor's boring scheming and opera visits. Fett better be the main star to keep things from being a complete snooz fest.
Umm, Xizor was far more interesting...
So are Boba Fett, Jabba the Hutt, Han Solo...
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Earthknight
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
4/12 1:55pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
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Reading on what's going on inside Vader's head was more interesting than reading about Xizor sipping champagne and looking at a dinner menu. Xizor didn't do squat for half the book. If that's a taste of what this TV series will be, it will suck badly.
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Cid
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
4/13 4:46am
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
- Date Edited:
4/13 4:51am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Cid
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Gotta go with Earthknight on this one. Xizor was a lackluster villan who didn't really do anything. I liked Guri a lot more. If you honestly thing that some goofy book character who sits there bossing Hutts around was more interesting than OT Darth Vader i just don't know what to tell you. We must be complete opposite types of fans, then.
I'm not opposed to the criminal thing being a facet of the show (quite the opposite), i'd just rather it not be the whole thing. But i'm not really worried about that because i don't think it will be. Anyone remember the rebel named Naberri bandied about on AICN a while back? If that's true it nixes the 100% criminal focus theory.
Here's an idea, how about a heroic bounty hunter? They can't all be working for the bad guys, right? Someone that hunts down folks that deserve hunting down. That'd be cool. Like SpaceDog (just minus the n-word).
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Darth_Deus
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
4/13 1:10pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
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Kind of like a Dog The Bounty Hunter without the racial slurs in the Star Wars Galaxy? I like it.
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Pizza-the-Hutt
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
4/14 6:57am
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
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Darth-Wyrm posted:
I have my concerns, but I think those who are criticizing us for wanting Jedi are confused. At least personally, I'm not asking for large scale Jedi/Sith wars. That wouldn't make any sense. But you can't have ZERO lightsaber wielding, force-using main characters. That makes no sense at all. That's what Star Wars is. Even if a significant part of ANH did not involve Jedi, Star Wars would not have been anywhere near as successful if Vader, Ben Kenobi and The Force were not a part of ANH.
It's ok to have sprinkles of Jedi and force users in the show...small specks are fine...but the specks have to be there. It's not Star Wars if it's not.
I REALLY hope we get the Secret Apprentice from TFU. He doesn't have to appear often. He can appear for 2 minutes every 8 episodes. But his presence as Vader's right hand would make the show all the more interesting. Kind of like the smoke monster in Lost. It doesn't show up often, but when it does everyone is curious as all heck about it.
That's all I'm asking for. For ONE former/secret Jedi in hiding amongst what will undoubtedly be a group of protagonists. He/she doesn't use his/her powers often, and will only use them in desperate circumstances (because he/she's in hiding after all). And at least some appearances by someone evil with force abilities.
That's exactly what I don't want. Vader's secret apprentice that is never mentioned in the OT. It just adds more unnecessary retcon.
I agree 100% with Zombie. I'd like to see this be about bounty hunters, smugglers, and X-Wing pilots. The problem with the Clone Wars is that you've got Sith who are never mentioned in the movies and yet are main characters in the cartoons. I'd hate to see something similar in the live action show.
A Jedi in hiding is one thing I guess because it's feasible that he/she could have survived the purge. But to have secret apprentices and 'dark Jedi' wandering around would stop me from watching the show.
Deadwood/Sopranos is exactly what I want. I know that won't please everyone, but for goodness sake there's the whole Clone Wars and PT that deal with Jedi exploits. Can't we go back to Star Wars as it was in 77 were the Jedi were 'all but extinct' and we had one Sith Lord?
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Cid
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
4/15 8:12am
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
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Dark Jedi FTW! 
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Humble_Jedi
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
4/15 4:40pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
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I'm with Pizza and everybody else who would like a return to the good old days of the OT when Jedi were only mentioned in tales and legends. Bring on the Hutts on Nar Shaddaa, the Rebellion and the Spice smuggling, the Bounty Hunting, the Pod-Racing! It's Star Wars! I'm super pumped for this kind of setting!
Just imagine watching it, wondering about every character you see if he or she might be a Jedi in disguise! The sheer suspense!
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Earthknight
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
4/15 4:55pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
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Yeah and then you find out that there are no Jedi in disguise and that the Pod Racing plotline added nothing to the overall plotline.
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Master to jacensolofangirl2007 Our philosophy: We strive for a 100 in awesomeness. And if we get a 90, it's still cool. ~My Fanfiction Stories~ The Guardians of Light- http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=259245
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Darth-Wyrm
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/18 2:51am
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
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Pizza-the-Hutt posted:
That's exactly what I don't want. Vader's secret apprentice that is never mentioned in the OT. It just adds more unnecessary retcon.
I agree 100% with Zombie. I'd like to see this be about bounty hunters, smugglers, and X-Wing pilots. The problem with the Clone Wars is that you've got Sith who are never mentioned in the movies and yet are main characters in the cartoons. I'd hate to see something similar in the live action show.
A Jedi in hiding is one thing I guess because it's feasible that he/she could have survived the purge. But to have secret apprentices and 'dark Jedi' wandering around would stop me from watching the show.
Deadwood/Sopranos is exactly what I want. I know that won't please everyone, but for goodness sake there's the whole Clone Wars and PT that deal with Jedi exploits. Can't we go back to Star Wars as it was in 77 were the Jedi were 'all but extinct' and we had one Sith Lord?
Uh, what does it matter whether or not the SA was mentioned in the OT? This series has virtually nothing to do with the OT. Lucas has said himself that none of those characters will appear in the LAS. Plus, according to the rumors regarding the Force Unleashed game, that's going to have a much more direct connection to ANH than either of these shows will. Having the SA appear once in a while on this show doesn't require any retcon whatsoever. Not many people even knew that there was an SA. It's not like he'll appear suddenly and announce himself - "Hi all, I'm Vader's secret apprentice! But shhhh! I'm a secret!"
The whole point of him being a SECRET apprentice is that nobody, even the Emperor, knew he existed. That's why he fits in so cleanly (in theory). You can have him come in and out with no reports of his existence b/c nobody knows he exists.
Look, I'm fine with most of the primary characters being completely non-force users. I prefer that too. But there has to be SOME force wielding going on. Otherwise, despite what you may want to believe, it's just not Star Wars to the rest of the world. When you say "Star Wars" to people, they think Jedi, Darth Vader, etc. There has to be SOME link to that part of the SW universe.
I have absolutely no doubt that we'll see force users in the show, including one of the protagonists. I would bet on that. I just hope we also see a very cool villain who is also a force user, and it would just make sense if it was the SA doing Vader's bidding. Otherwise, it would be hard to explain the character's existence at all.
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Pizza-the-Hutt
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
4/18 9:04am
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
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Some people have an aversion to Anakin having an apprentice in the new CW cartoon, because she isn't mentioned in ROTS. Now it may be that this apprentice will die in the cartoon and so you can say "well why would they mention her?". Similarly, as you have done, we can say "it's a secret apprentice, why would they mention him?". But I do think that if people watch Episodes I, II, Clone Wars, III, LA series, IV, V, VI, it is going to be jarring that these important force users just disappear.
Some people want to see Yoda put into ANH because they think it's strange he isn't seen or heard of. The reason Yoda isn't mentioned in ANH is because at that time Lucas hadn't invented him yet. If Lucas was to remake the OT today, he probably would put Yoda somewhere in ANH. Yoda had to be invented because he was a major part of the plot in the films, so we can forgive him not being mentioned in ANH. However, the SA and Anakin's apprentice have no relevance at all to the overall story.
This SA hasn't been created because it adds anything to the story, or to Vader's character, it's been created because Lucas thinks it will make fans go "ZOMG KEWL!!1!". But it isn't cool, it's just ridiculous. The reason why the SA isn't mentioned in the OT, isn't beause it was secret. It was because from 77-83 Vader didn't have an apprentice. Therefore it is a retcon. If Lucas was making the OT now, and Vader had a secret apprentice, do you honestly believe we wouldn't see him in ANH, TESB, or ROTJ? Of course we would.
The SA is just a way to sell more books, comics, action figures, computer games, and lunchboxes. Being Vader's apprentice is probably a lot of fun in a computer game, but it just adds unnecessary fluff to what is a great OT story.
As for a lack of force users in the LA series. You're right when you say that people associate Star Wars with Jedi. But people also associate Star Wars with X-Wings, Boba Fett, the Falcon, Princess Leia, Wookies, Stormtroopers, droids and a whole host of other things, none of which involve the Force. I think that there are a lot of great stories to be told involving smugglers, bounty hunters, the Empire, and the Rebellion. You might not agree, but Han Solo is arguably the most popular OT character and he's not a Sith or Jedi. A character doesn't have to use the force to be interesting. In fact, the action scenes in ANH don't revolve around Obi-Wan they revolve around Luke and Han, characters who don't use the force. It's only really in ROTJ do we see really see Jedi in action.
Are people going to be disappointed if the LA series turns out to be ANH minus Obi-Wan? I very much doubt it.
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Cid
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
4/18 10:39am
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
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Darth-Wyrm posted:
Look, I'm fine with most of the primary characters being completely non-force users. I prefer that too. But there has to be SOME force wielding going on. Otherwise, despite what you may want to believe, it's just not Star Wars to the rest of the world. When you say "Star Wars" to people, they think Jedi, Darth Vader, etc. There has to be SOME link to that part of the SW universe.
Couldn't have said it any better.
Pizza-the-Hutt posted:
Are people going to be disappointed if the LA series turns out to be ANH minus Obi-Wan? I very much doubt it.
They wouldn't have in the late 70's, in the late 00's it's a different story. No Jedi = not Star Wars. Besides, we had that already, it was called Firefly. No one watched it until it was on DVD. We've got interstellar dogfighting too, it's called Battlestar Galactica.
But then i'm not worried about that, because i can't think of ONE thing made for SW in the past 20 years (be it video games, comics, books, whatever, ANY tie in of ANY kind) that didn't have force using characters (the ONLY thing i can think of was the crappy first Ewoks movie from 1984). Protagonist, antagonist, side character, whatever, SOMEONE has always been a force user. And i can't see that trend breaking. And that's a good thing because the last thing i want is to be let down AGAIN by Star Wars!
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Darth-Wyrm
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/18 11:21am
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS) (Updated 29/10/07)
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Cid posted:
Pizza-the-Hutt posted:
Are people going to be disappointed if the LA series turns out to be ANH minus Obi-Wan? I very much doubt it.
They wouldn't have in the late 70's, in the late 00's it's a different story. No Jedi = not Star Wars. Besides, we had that already, it was called Firefly. No one watched it until it was on DVD. We've got interstellar dogfighting too, it's called Battlestar Galactica.
But then i'm not worried about that, because i can't think of ONE thing made for SW in the past 20 years (be it video games, comics, books, whatever, ANY tie in of ANY kind) that didn't have force using characters (the ONLY thing i can think of was the crappy first Ewoks movie from 1984). Protagonist, antagonist, side character, whatever, SOMEONE has always been a force user. And i can't see that trend breaking. And that's a good thing because the last thing i want is to be let down AGAIN by Star Wars!
This is such a great point. People seem to be stuck in the past. They don't realize that Star Wars for you, is not the same Star Wars today. GL specifically talked about this a few months ago. He talked about how a lot of older people watched Star Wars when they were kids and fell in love with it. And now they're older and they hate the new stuff because it doesn't fit their idea of what SW is. He said that what they're forgetting is that a lot of Star Wars is for kids, and that's who his target is.
The younger audience today associates Star Wars even moreso with Jedi/Sith than fans of the OT. You might have been perfectly enchanted with the non-Force parts of the OT, but the audience of today won't accept that (and frankly, I think you're in denial as a good chunk of OT fans like myself also want to see Force users in the LAS). You keep referring to the OT over and over like you're trying to convince everyone but nobody is listening. That's because they're not. The OT began over 30 years ago. THIRTY. The CW and the LAS aren't targeting the 40 and over crowd. Sorry but nobody is. The prestigious target group is the 18-25 group and younger (I'm not in that group either btw), and everyone in that bracket loves Jedi/Sith and wouldn't watch Star Wars without it.
As Cid said, if you want something different, go rent Firefly and BSG (which is an awesome, awesome show). If you're expecting no force users in the LAS, then just start complaining now because you won't like it when it comes out.
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