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Topic:
*NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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WookieeWarrior9
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
4/29 10:14am
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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Cid posted:
WookieeWarrior9 posted:
Wow, you sure seem to know a ton about a series which hasn't filmed a single shot yet. You apparently have insight the rest of us aren't privy to and already know the dialogue will be bad. To quote Padme, "You assume too much". And sure, I know that all viewers aren't fanboys, but like George expected people to have seen the previous films, I expect them to know that the vast majority of Jedi have been killed.
Um, SW always has wooden dialogue what movies were you watching?
I'm talking about the tv series. Of course the dialogue in the movies was wooden, which is why I always laugh when PT haters bring this up.
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Cid
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
4/29 11:24am
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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WookieeWarrior9 posted:
I'm talking about the tv series. Of course the dialogue in the movies was wooden, which is why I always laugh when PT haters bring this up.
I don't expect the TV series to be a whole lot different. 2/6 of the saga wasn't written by lucas and the dialogue was still pretty wooden.
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VladTheImpaler
Registered:
Apr '00
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Date Posted:
4/29 3:02pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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You know, now that I think about it, I'm not sure I buy the "if there are no Jedi, what makes it any different from Star Trek?" type arguments.
I would say there is plenty that separates Star Wars from other scifi shows/movies. For one, the art design. X-wings, Y-wings, Star Destroyers...they all do such a great job of capturing the imagination. No other scifi space ship designs have made me sit up and take notice like Star Wars. I see Babylon 5 ships and I just think "...so?". I actually loved Farscape, but the spaceship designs there are painfully boring as well.
And the fast paced action in Star Wars was pretty unique itself(much more exciting than the slower paced Star Trek style battles, where you're just watching somebody issue commands instead of seeing real dogfighting). And then there's the whole "lived-in" universe which was so unique compared to other clean/shiny/sterile futuristic environments that was the norm at the time.
Other scifi productions have since picked up on that kind of stuff, so it's not quite as unique today...but I think there is still a desire amongst mainstream audiences to see it again in a Star Wars setting.
And then there's the whole rogue/cowboy element that Han brought to the table. Everyone loved it in the OT, and everybody missed it in the PT. I'd love to see it come back in the live action series.
I don't want to bad-mouth the jedi. Jedi action is awesome. I just want to keep them "special", you know? In the movies, the jedi were supposedly killed. Obi-Wan and Yoda are the only ones left. Why mess with that?
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Cid
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
4/29 4:36pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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VladTheImpaler posted:
You know, now that I think about it, I'm not sure I buy the "if there are no Jedi, what makes it any different from Star Trek?" type arguments.
I would say there is plenty that separates Star Wars from other scifi shows/movies. For one, the art design. X-wings, Y-wings, Star Destroyers...they all do such a great job of capturing the imagination. No other scifi space ship designs have made me sit up and take notice like Star Wars. I see Babylon 5 ships and I just think "...so?". I actually loved Farscape, but the spaceship designs there are painfully boring as well.
Maybe once upon a time, but some of the ships in the PT looked kinda silly (Anything from Naboo to be exact). I dug the Jedi starfighters (both models) and the 'new' design for the star destroyers though. Whatever, it doesn't really have anything do do with the situation at hand so there's no sense nitpicking.
Sure the art department 30 years ago did a great job, and the Art department 10 years ago did a good job on some stuff. I imagine the art department will do a good job on this one.
VladTheImpaler posted:
And the fast paced action in Star Wars was pretty unique itself(much more exciting than the slower paced Star Trek style battles, where you're just watching somebody issue commands instead of seeing real dogfighting).
And removing this completely would be a mistake, no? How is Jedi any different?
VladTheImpaler posted:
And then there's the whole "lived-in" universe which was so unique compared to other clean/shiny/sterile futuristic environments that was the norm at the time.
Might have been the norm in 1977, but the lived in look is pretty common in 2008. Nitpicking, but true.
VladTheImpaler posted:
Other scifi productions have since picked up on that kind of stuff, so it's not quite as unique today...but I think there is still a desire amongst mainstream audiences to see it again in a Star Wars setting.
Sure, along with Lightsaber action. Side by side. With neither getting more focus than the other.
Look, what the people advancing the argument about "no Jedi = BSG/Firefly" (which is a better comparison that SW to Trek) are really saying is this: Jedi are at the core of star wars just as much as space cowboys, dogfights and high adventure ever were and to lose that makes SW lose it's soul (Much like the galaxy sort of lost it's conscience with the extinction of the Jedi Order). Even if it DOES have the rest (And a lot of what you guys are advancing isn't at the core of SW, there being like 2 Bounty Hunters with any lines both of whom die like punks, and one single crimelord in the whole saga) to lose one part of the whole diminishes it all. You might say "well, that's what happened to the GFFA when the Jedi died" but we are talking about a TV show, why make a TV show that cuts out such an integral part even if it conforms to ideas people have had for years that aren't supported in any of the movies just so a wide swath of the fanbase can feel knifed between the shoulder blades? It's not a very good business decision to remove an aspect so many of us love regardless of any canon reason (or in this case a non-canon reason, see below). Why even make it at all if you're just going to do that?
VladTheImpaler posted:
I don't want to bad-mouth the jedi. Jedi action is awesome. I just want to keep them "special", you know? In the movies, the jedi were supposedly killed. Obi-Wan and Yoda are the only ones left. Why mess with that?
Where in ROTS does it state that all the Jedi are dead? Watch it and listen for the line. You won't find it. It isn't until ANH (18-20 years later) that you hear that line. I don't mean to sound like a jerk but if they wanted all the Jedi to be dead definitively by the end of ROTS, don't you think... you know... there would be some indication of that?
Decimated, yes. I don't think there's an argument there. There should be no Jedi Order post ROTS.
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Criix
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/29 6:38pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
- Date Edited:
4/29 6:49pm (4 edits total)
Edited By:
Criix
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I agree that some Jedi are still left. That was the whole point of Obi-Wan going to the temple and changing the beacon message to "stay away." They've already written some books about the surviving Jedi in hiding (Last of the Jedi and Dark Lord), and those stories were pretty good. Everyone wants to see Vader hunt down and kill the remaning Jedi, just like Obi-Wan described in A New Hope. The TV series is a perfect opportunity to fill in all the blanks that GL didn't get around to filling in the PT, so it would be great if at least one of the stories dealt with a Jedi in hiding who eventually gets found and slain by Vader. Can you imaging the ratings of an episode where Vader appears and duels a Jedi? That's sweeps week stuff right there.
On an unrelated note, does anyone else think Jimmy Smitts was specifically given the role of Bail Organa in the movies because he was going to get a starring role on the show? I mean think about it, of all actors to cast, they cast Jimmy, who's mainly known as a TV star. A guy who's used to the TV shooting schedule, which is VERY different from a movie shooting schedule. I've always believed Lucas offered him the part on the condition that he'll play the character in the TV show. The screentime Bail had in the movies was so small, I can't help but think there was an upside to the deal for Jimmy. I guess we'll find out soon enough. I can understand them not wanting to do a show about Luke, because nothing much happens to him while he's growing up, but a show about Leia's father would be the next best thing, especially for the casual fan who doesn't know much about Star Wars and won't care about a totally new character that wasn't in the movies, or related to anyone in the movies. You say to someone "The show is about Princess Leia's father" and that'll instantly hook people. Plus since Bail is a senator, that opens up cameo appearances by the Emperor or Vader.
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Earthknight
Registered:
Oct '02
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Date Posted:
4/29 8:30pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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My issue isn't the no Jedi stuff. It's the crime stuff. It was the most boring part in Knights of the Old Republic. It was the most boring part in RotJ. It was the most boring segment in The Phantom Menace. Notice that Empire had small segments of Crime War stuff and it is the best installment. Make Crime Wars the main focus and watch your series go to hell. BSG and Stargate will remain the best current Sci Fi shows.
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Darth-Wyrm
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/29 11:06pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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Earthknight posted:
My issue isn't the no Jedi stuff. It's the crime stuff. It was the most boring part in Knights of the Old Republic. It was the most boring part in RotJ. It was the most boring segment in The Phantom Menace. Notice that Empire had small segments of Crime War stuff and it is the best installment. Make Crime Wars the main focus and watch your series go to hell. BSG and Stargate will remain the best current Sci Fi shows.
Well BSG will be done by then (though they are doing a prequel).
The thing that concerns me about the crime stuff is that we'll just get some rip-off Han and Chewie duo who aren't nearly as interesting. I don't know how many gun-slinging, cowboy types with alien sidekicks we can have. I think a lot of people here think back to how much they loved Han's character, but I'm skeptical that they'll be able to reproduce that. Plus, that had as much to do with Harrison Ford as it did with the character.
In my head, this show is a lot like Firefly. Which isn't a bad thing at all actually.
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Cid
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
4/30 11:55am
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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Darth-Wyrm posted:
The thing that concerns me about the crime stuff is that we'll just get some rip-off Han and Chewie duo who aren't nearly as interesting.
Like Dash Rendar? Yeah, Han's been ripped off a lot in the last 20-25 years. None as interesting as the original.
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Darth_Foo
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
4/30 12:09pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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don't forget that though a jedi in hiding may be introduced it doesn't mean he has to survive the series 
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Frak the goram Vong! LoE trumps CW cartoon. it's referenced in Ep3 I-VI
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Pizza-the-Hutt
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
4/30 12:22pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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Cid posted:
WookieeWarrior9 posted:
Wow, you sure seem to know a ton about a series which hasn't filmed a single shot yet. You apparently have insight the rest of us aren't privy to and already know the dialogue will be bad. To quote Padme, "You assume too much". And sure, I know that all viewers aren't fanboys, but like George expected people to have seen the previous films, I expect them to know that the vast majority of Jedi have been killed.
Um, SW always has wooden dialogue what movies were you watching?
ANH and TESB maybe?
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Cid
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
4/30 8:10pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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Maybe TESB, but ANH still has some very hokey dialogue.
Obi-Wan: Mos Eisley spaceport: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.
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Icebreaker
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
4/30 9:28pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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The dialogue in the original trilogy was just as stuffy as the dialogue in the prequels. But I think there are two things that helped the original trilogy. The dialogue was hoakey, but it wasn't as political detailed or descriptive, so it didn't become bogged down. Also, I think the OT just had better acting. Somehow the original cast knew when to throw away lines and how to just play loose and fast with it, so it seemed a bit natural as compared to the wooden acting in the PT (which was Lucas's attempt at a more formal enviornment IMO, with the Jedi and Senators and such).
-matthew
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Cid
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/1 12:55am
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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I said it was Hokey and wooden, i didn't say it was bad. It was perfect for the subject matter, but that doesn't stop it from being cheesy.
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VladTheImpaler
Registered:
Apr '00
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Date Posted:
5/1 7:15pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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Cid, I appreciate all of your points. I suppose what I'm really trying to get at is that Star Wars is such a wide-open, creative universe that they could conceivably make a TV show about *anything*. They could have a dark show about the criminal underworld, or they could have a Rebels vs. Empire war drama, or heck, they could even have a light hearted sitcom about a four-armed buffoon who owns a diner on Coruscant and his robot waitress who insists that her grits are regularly kissed. There are so many options, here.
If we bring jedi into the mix, then we have one of two options. Either we'll get multiple jedi, protecting the universe like a team of superheroes ala the PT, or we'll get a single jedi on the run with his rogue friends, ala the OT.
I do want to point out that it's not a deal-breaker for me. If they can make a good show with force-using characters, then hey, no complaints here. I just don't understand how people think a lack of jedi is an automatic death blow to the show. I am fine with a TV show focusing on lesser-explored aspects of the SW galaxy.
Now that I think about it, an anthology series would really rock. That way they could do an even mix of non-jedi and jedi stories, satisfying both crowds. They could even adapt some of the more popular EU stories out there.
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Cid
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
5/1 9:07pm
Subject:
RE: *NEW LIVE ACTION SW DETAILS!!!* (MINOR SPOILERS)
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VladTheImpaler posted:
Cid, I appreciate all of your points. I suppose what I'm really trying to get at is that Star Wars is such a wide-open, creative universe that they could conceivably make a TV show about *anything*. They could have a dark show about the criminal underworld, or they could have a Rebels vs. Empire war drama, or heck, they could even have a light hearted sitcom about a four-armed buffoon who owns a diner on Coruscant and his robot waitress who insists that her grits are regularly kissed. There are so many options, here.
[quote=VladTheImpaler]If we bring jedi into the mix, then we have one of two options. Either we'll get multiple jedi, protecting the universe like a team of superheroes ala the PT, or we'll get a single jedi on the run with his rogue friends, ala the OT.
The first option wouldn't work. First of all nothing but Jedi would kill the LAS the same way it killed the PT for a lot of people. That's most definitely not what I'm asking for. Door #2 is a better choice. And when you think about it we didn't really get that at all in the vast majority the OT. The "single jedi on the run with his rogue friends" was only given during part of ANH during the time Ben is with Luke, Han, and Chewie. Through the rest of the OT Luke Skywalker is either training on Dagobah, or (once is is finally a Jedi) turning himself over to the Empire. He spends a lot of time alone.
VladTheImpaler posted:
Now that I think about it, an anthology series would really rock. That way they could do an even mix of non-jedi and jedi stories, satisfying both crowds. They could even adapt some of the more popular EU stories out there.
Sure, but why do we have to have an anthology to satisfy both crowds? Why can't it be done in a single continuing storyline? This i don't get. All we are asking for is a Jedi character. s/he doesn't have to be the star of the show (hopefully it's an ensemble and there isn't really a star). It's this all-or-nothing feast-or-famine mentality that i don't get.
As for no Jedi = death knell, put it like this. Jedi are what makes SW unique. They are it's most distinctive feature. Let this come closer to fruition and GL start giving interviews to people who aren't googling every piece of info. Let it start on Access Hollywood and ET when fans who aren't loony for it like most of tfn hear about it. Heck, look on the IMDB message board for the LAS from those fans RIGHT NOW (Jedi, Jedi, Jedi. Go look!). Let this show come on without a hint of the force and you'll see.
The CW cartoon doesn't cut it. The LAS is supposed to be some darker, grittier, more adult oriented show and what do us fans of Jedi get? A children's cartoon. UGH!
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