| Author |
Topic:
Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
drg4
Registered:
Jul '05
|
Date Posted:
3/25 11:09am
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
SithStarSlayer: We were robbed of substantial character development in the OT, as well. At the end of TESB, Luke is thoroughly traumatized from Vader’s revelation, but when the subject is first broached in ROTJ, we discover Luke not only sees good in him(?) but wants to redeem him(?!?!?!). When did he have this epiphany? I sure didn’t see it. Similarly, at the end of TESB, Vader makes known his intentions to murder Palpatine and establish a ruling Skywalker dynasty, yet in ROTJ, he’s lost his imperial ambitions and devolved into a complete slave to the Emperor (“I must obey my Master.” “It is too late for me, son.”). Obviously, a lot happened in between V and VI that we didn’t see.
Now, if Lucas were to release an animated Episode 5.5 (which, IMO, we need), would this imply he deliberately kept out important material in the hope of someday filling his coffers?
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
|
Date Posted:
3/25 12:43pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
Oh, would Episode 5.5 be sweet or what?
You bring up a good point. After considering it for a moment, I think that the difference is a simple one. In the OT Lucas was really trying to git 'er done, and in the PT he professed to playing around. Only heaven knows what was going through his mind, but for me... based upon his quotes, I think he intended to hold stuff out. He said that the saga was done, that there was nothing more to tell. Yet, he made that statement knowing full-well that they were planning the live-action and animated series.
To me, it appears that he watered down the films just so he could milk us in a different way.
Either way, we're getting more canon Star Wars!
YAYE!!
PS:
I have NEVER understood CT-Vader's dialogue on the moon of Endor.
Fast-forward to life after the PT and Vader was no dummy, he knew that his Master coveted power above all else. Bringing his son before Palpatine surley meant death for one of them. There could never be more than two; and having witnessed first-hand what Palpatine does to a less than desirable Apprentice, Vader was a foolish Sith to bring Luke before him. Who knows... maybe Vader hoped that Luke would kill him just to end his miserable, conflicted-existence.
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
o[[]|[ooooooooooo]|[0]|[|]|[
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
|
Date Posted:
3/25 12:47pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
|
Yeah, I thought ROTJ really dropped the ball in terms of characters too.
-----signature-----
I'll swallow your soul! --------------------------------- If you're gonna die, die with your boots on! -------------------------------- author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
drg4
Registered:
Jul '05
|
Date Posted:
3/25 2:09pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
SithStarSlayer posted:
Oh, would Episode 5.5 be sweet or what?
It'll never happen. At best, we'd get a Shadows of the Empire adaptation, and if memory serves, the novel failed to explain why Luke was compelled to give Daddy a big ol' smooch.
SithStarSlayer posted:
You bring up a good point. After considering it for a moment, I think that the difference is a simple one. In the OT Lucas was really trying to git 'er done, and in the PT he professed to playing around. Only heaven knows what was going through his mind, but for me... based upon his quotes, I think he intended to hold stuff out. He said that the saga was done, that there was nothing more to tell. Yet, he made that statement knowing full-well that they were planning the live-action and animated series.
To me, it appears that he watered down the films just so he could milk us in a different way..
I really don’t think Lucas is that cynical; he's a student of history, so I’d say the Clone Wars interested him more as a metaphor than as a framework (really, they're just a means for Palpatine to secure power). But he understood that the majority of fans were hankering for a lot of razzle-dazzle, so he did the sensible thing and handed the subject matter to more interested artists.
This isn’t an excuse, mind you, for the failure of AOTC to make Anakin and Padme sympathetic characters. I’m just saying it was bungled, not compromised. AOTC, like Jedi, is a lousy movie. You don't need conspiracies for that to happen.
SithStarSlayer posted:
PS:
I have NEVER understood CT-Vader's dialogue on the moon of Endor.
Fast-forward to life after the PT and Vader was no dummy, he knew that his Master coveted power above all else. Bringing his son before Palpatine surley meant death for one of them. There could never be more than two; and having witnessed first-hand what Palpatine does to a less than desirable Apprentice, Vader was a foolish Sith to bring Luke before him. Who knows... maybe Vader hoped that Luke would kill him just to end his miserable, conflicted-existence.
I wouldn't waste time trying to decode a bad script--there’s no explanation for Vader’s mentality in ROTJ. ROTS establishes that he became indentured to the Emperor the moment he was put in the suit; TESB indicates he broke free once he learned he had a surviving son. By the dictates of logic, ROTJ Vader should have been hell-bent on wasting the Old Man, even if he was needed to help convert Luke. But Vader is very much a slave--and it doesn't make a lick of sense.
My opinion? Lucas pulled a retcon. Wouldn’t be the first one; wouldn’t be the last.
Recall what Gary Kurtz said:
The one story thread that got totally tossed out the window, which was really pretty important I think, was the one of Vader trying to convince Luke to join him to overthrow the Emperor. That together they had enough power that they could do that, and it wasn't him saying I want to take over the world and be the evil leader, it was that transition. It was Vader saying, "I'm looking again at what I've done and where my life has gone and who I've served and, very much in the Samurai tradition, and saying if I can join forces with my son, who is just as strong as I am, that maybe we can make some amends."
http://www.filmthreat.com/index.php?section=interviews&Id=8
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
ShaneP
Registered:
Mar '01
|
Date Posted:
3/25 3:47pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
- Date Edited:
3/25 3:53pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
ShaneP
|
drg4
SithStarSlayer: We were robbed of substantial character development in the OT, as well
The difference was we didn't have 20 years to imagine Vader's epiphany and other OT events, unlike the Clone Wars and the Kenobi/Anakin friendship.
20 years to imagine this great friendship that would ground the entire PT and then we were shown:
Anakin tossing a wrench in the Lars homestead and whining like a doofuss "He's holding me back!"
-----signature-----
It was as if a million middle-aged virgins just farted with rage and were suddenly silenced.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
drg4
Registered:
Jul '05
|
Date Posted:
3/25 4:32pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
Understood, but the interim between TESB and ROTJ would be nothing to sneeze at, provided you're into the story. Had I gotten my first glimpse of Death Star II and Wicket the Ewok as a teenager/adult, I'd have left the franchise and not looked back.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
General_Grievous
Registered:
Oct '03
|
Date Posted:
3/25 4:43pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
|
Ewoks for sure, but the Death Star under construction was fantastic.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
ShaneP
Registered:
Mar '01
|
Date Posted:
3/25 4:48pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
drg4, don't even get me started on what I think a missed opportunity ROTJ was. It should've been ESB-Part 2, but anyway.
That's a subject for another thread and forum.
-----signature-----
It was as if a million middle-aged virgins just farted with rage and were suddenly silenced.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
The_Death_Star_II
Registered:
Jan '05
|
Date Posted:
3/25 4:54pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
I'm not feeling the love from drg4. 
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
|
Date Posted:
3/25 4:59pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
|
That is some funny ****.
-----signature-----
The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
|
Date Posted:
3/25 7:05pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
ShaneP posted:
drg4, don't even get me started on what I think a missed opportunity ROTJ was. It should've been ESB-Part 2, but anyway.
QFT.
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
o[[]|[ooooooooooo]|[0]|[|]|[
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Dark_Jedi_Kenobi
Title: PT Manager
Registered:
Oct '04
|
Date Posted:
3/25 7:21pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
|
Okay, this thread has gotten completely off-topic and it's time to stop that. This thread is for discussing how the new Clone Wars series will affect your view of the PT. It is not for discussing the CT or any events that take place after the scope of the series. Also, remember that general discussion of the series is for the SSSW forum, not PT.
-----signature-----
***Host of the PT Trivia Challenge Game 12: Question 10 Posted!*** http://boards.theforce.net/prequel_trilogy/b10669/23314477/p4/?184
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
GARTH_MAUL
Title: Photorealistic LACWAC Manager
Registered:
May '02
|
Date Posted:
3/25 8:21pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
heh no kidding.
Really, this isn't going to go anywhere until we start watching the series.
-----signature-----
Dustin + Tina =  Clone Wars discussion is in LACWAC forum!!! The Clone Wars: in theatres August 15th On your TV October 3rd
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
|
Date Posted:
3/25 9:44pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
ShaneP posted:
drg4
SithStarSlayer: We were robbed of substantial character development in the OT, as well
The difference was we didn't have 20 years to imagine Vader's epiphany and other OT events, unlike the Clone Wars and the Kenobi/Anakin friendship.
20 years to imagine this great friendship that would ground the entire PT and then we were shown:
Anakin tossing a wrench in the Lars homestead and whining like a doofuss "He's holding me back!"
ShaneP, surely you weren't expecting the man who would be Vader to have been a rosy-cheeked goody-two-shoes when he was a teenager? As far as character development goes, it strikes me as a natural and convincing progression: From a starry-eyed wonderchild, to a hotshot adolescent (who feels stifled by his father-figure) to an arrogant warrior. That Anakin's relationship with Kenobi is strained or tempermental does not invalidate Kenobi's later recollection of Anakin as a "good friend"... it only enriches it. Perhaps my own experience colors my perception, in that I've had friendships that were marked by intense, passionate disagreement, but which were very real and true at their core. It makes sense Kenobi and his padawan would have argued, given that Anakin is prone to dark side thoughts and tendencies, while Kenobi is the stalwart and orderly knight.
I don't feel that the CW movie and series represent some desperately-needed second pass at the Kenobi-Skywalker friendship. All the elements Ben spoke of in his brief discourses on Anakin in the OT are bourne out in the PT. If Kenobi later commits the error of omission (regarding their strained relationship) that is Kenobi's mistake, and IMO not some flaw or oversight in the screenwriting.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
ShaneP
Registered:
Mar '01
|
Date Posted:
3/29 10:08pm
Subject:
RE: Clone Wars 3D movie/series and how it affects your view of the PT
|
I'm not saying there was no depiction of that "friendship", just that the execution of it was lackluster or grating.
And I'm really not going to answer your suggestion that it's Kenobi's fault Lucas didn't cover his bases in the script.
That's exactly how your post sounds and it's a desperate suggestion.
-----signature-----
It was as if a million middle-aged virgins just farted with rage and were suddenly silenced.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
