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Author Topic: The Perfect Ventress Death
Kyptastic  8206 posts
Title: Manager Emeritus
SWD Co-Commish
 Registered: Sep '05
46137_Shaak Ti: Wanted!
Date Posted: 10/29/08 2:26am Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death
Troopsguy posted:
The Answer Has Already Been Given

Here's the deal:

Yoda says in TPM "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice."

Darth Pleagus and Darth Sidious

Darth Sidious and Maul

Darth Sidious and Dooku

The Emperor and Vader

The Emperor and (almost Luke)

Ventress upsets this balance. She's the third. She should not exist because she represents a challenge by Dooku for the top slot, when the Emeror/Sidious learns of this either he will kill her, or order Dooku to kill her, or have the two of them fight and Dooku will be the winner, only to be killed by Anakin in ROTS

Of course I could be wrong.


Only if Dooku considers her apprentice material, which he probably doesn't. She's just a tool to him, much like Grievous and Durge, that he can use to help progress the war and diminish the Jedi. He gives her little hints and promises about making her part of the Sith Duumvirate, but only to keep her onside. The second she's of no more use to him, he'll just abandon her.

 

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JediLight  1035 posts
Registered: May '01
46304_The Clone Wars
Date Posted: 10/29/08 5:30am Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death - Date Edited: 10/29/08 5:31am (1 edits total) Edited By: JediLight
Troopsguy posted:
The Answer Has Already Been Given

Here's the deal:

Yoda says in TPM "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice."

Darth Pleagus and Darth Sidious

Darth Sidious and Maul

Darth Sidious and Dooku

The Emperor and Vader

The Emperor and (almost Luke)

Ventress upsets this balance. She's the third. She should not exist because she represents a challenge by Dooku for the top slot, when the Emeror/Sidious learns of this either he will kill her, or order Dooku to kill her, or have the two of them fight and Dooku will be the winner, only to be killed by Anakin in ROTS

Of course I could be wrong.


This is pretty much what I stated from the original post. I hate these "dark side assasins". In the movies, if you use the dark side, you are either a Sith Lord (Plagueis, Sidious, Maul, Tyrannus) or about to become one (Anakin).

"Always two there are..."

If you want the TCW to have the reputation on fitting in with the story from the movies, the writers have to deal with her dark side nature the right way at some point.

Remember in the cartoon series, Ventress wanted to be a Sith. That's where the story has to go.

 

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The2ndQuest  40066 posts
Title: Manager:
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 Registered: Jan '00
49624_H234: Samus
Date Posted: 10/29/08 5:43am Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death
JediLight posted:
In the movies, if you use the dark side, you are either a Sith Lord (Plagueis, Sidious, Maul, Tyrannus) or about to become one (Anakin).


Not entirely- the movies do suggest there is something inbetween, as the Jedi Council in TPM discuss Maul as being a dark side assassin while believing it impossible for the Sith to have returned.

 

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eht13  651 posts
Registered: Sep '07
Date Posted: 10/29/08 7:34am Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death
Ventress will most likely desire more power and realize at some point (no matter how Dooku tries to lead her along) that the Rule of Two will prevent her from gaining that power unless she can be a true Sith. This should lead her to either push Dooku into challenging Sidious for the top spot so that she can be Dooku's apprentice (which Sidious will discover and order Dooku to kill her for), or for her to challenge Dooku directly in an attempt to replace him as Sidious' apprentice (which would lead to a duel that Dooku ends up winning). So either way, I see Ventress being killed by Dooku at some point... but not until she has already killed Ahsoka.

 
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Arawn_Fenn  10329 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 10/29/08 8:29am Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death
The2ndQuest posted:
while believing it impossible for the Sith to have returned.


Well, the Council is not unanimous in this belief. Yoda certainly doesn't feel that way, and Mace's statement ( unlike Ki-Adi's ) does not express impossibility.

I seriously wonder sometimes just what is in Ki-Adi's giant head.

 

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JediLight  1035 posts
Registered: May '01
46304_The Clone Wars
Date Posted: 10/29/08 11:10am Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death
The2ndQuest posted:
JediLight posted:
In the movies, if you use the dark side, you are either a Sith Lord (Plagueis, Sidious, Maul, Tyrannus) or about to become one (Anakin).


Not entirely- the movies do suggest there is something inbetween, as the Jedi Council in TPM discuss Maul as being a dark side assassin while believing it impossible for the Sith to have returned.


QUI-GON : ...my only conclusion can be that it was a Sith Lord.
MACE WINDU : A Sith Lord?!?
KI-ADI : Impossible! The Sith have been extinct for a millenium.
...YODA : Hard to see, the dark side is. Discover who this assassin is, we
must.


I think the Jedi's reaction was more shock and denial than anything, but you raise an interesting point. Still, we don't see any other Force users in the whole saga except for Jedi and Sith. Now we have Ventress, who's is a complete x-factor on the saga (from the movie perspective).

 

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DarthBoba  32897 posts
Registered: Jun '00
8187_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 10/29/08 1:10pm Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death - Date Edited: 10/29/08 1:15pm (1 edits total) Edited By: DarthBoba
Troopsguy posted:
The Answer Has Already Been Given

Here's the deal:

Yoda says in TPM "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice."

Darth Pleagus and Darth Sidious

Darth Sidious and Maul

Darth Sidious and Dooku

The Emperor and Vader

The Emperor and (almost Luke)

Ventress upsets this balance. She's the third. She should not exist because she represents a challenge by Dooku for the top slot, when the Emeror/Sidious learns of this either he will kill her, or order Dooku to kill her, or have the two of them fight and Dooku will be the winner, only to be killed by Anakin in ROTS

Of course I could be wrong.


As much as I like Troops, you're wrong. In Yoda: Dark Rendevous Assaj flat-out asks Dooku to make her his official Sith Apprentice. He considers and then tells her no.

Also, in the old CWC Ventress tells Dooku she's a Sith and he flat-out laughs at her. tongue

She's just one of his flunkies. Heck, friggin Grievous is more Sith-esque than she is and he doesn't even have the Force.

~~

Anyway, on to the original question...

We saw in AOTC and in the ROTS novel that Dooku wanted/wants Obi-Wan to be his Sith Apprentice; and since Ventress wants to be Dooku's Sith Apprentice and isn't, I think a showdown between her and Kenobi would be a great way to off Ventress. Have Dooku watch and maybe even make it seem like Obi-Wan is in actual danger of falling and you'd have a nice parallel to ROTJ, and to ROTS too, where Dooku and Anakin have it out.

 

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TogashiAikune  252 posts
Registered: Sep '04
42363_Darth Vader's Apprentice
Date Posted: 10/31/08 7:51pm Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death
DarthBoba posted:


As much as I like Troops, you're wrong. In Yoda: Dark Rendevous Assaj flat-out asks Dooku to make her his official Sith Apprentice. He considers and then tells her no.

Also, in the old CWC Ventress tells Dooku she's a Sith and he flat-out laughs at her. tongue

She's just one of his flunkies. Heck, friggin Grievous is more Sith-esque than she is and he doesn't even have the Force.


Both of which were released before the new CW cartoon altered her character. According to the updated Databank, Dooku has trained her to the point where if Sidious found out he'd kill them.

 

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VentressFan01 
Registered: Nov '08
48232_Asajj Ventress (42209)
Date Posted: 11/1/08 12:57pm Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death
Would Every One Leave Ventress Alone, Why Do You All Hate Her I'm Her Number One Fan and I'm Gonna Stick up for Her

shame_on_you

 

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koonfan  491 posts
Registered: Oct '08
48244_Plo Koon (42209)
Date Posted: 11/1/08 11:58pm Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death
VentressFan01 posted:
Would Every One Leave Ventress Alone, Why Do You All Hate Her I'm Her Number One Fan and I'm Gonna Stick up for Her

shame_on_you


Actually, the people who mostly hate her are anti-EU people (who I have yet to comprehend). The others like her or like death scenes, I think. XD

If you wanted a pro-Ventress topic, I would suggest looking in somewhere besides 'the perfect ventress death' tongue

 

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PlagueisesApprentice  225 posts
Registered: Oct '08
22994_Tarkin
Date Posted: 11/2/08 12:05am Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death
I don't hate ventress. in the gendi series darth sidious new about her and seemingly praised dooku for finding her. i think rex should kill her because of the scene in the movie at the temple.

 

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JediLight  1035 posts
Registered: May '01
46304_The Clone Wars
Date Posted: 11/2/08 11:17am Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death
VentressFan01 posted:
Would Every One Leave Ventress Alone, Why Do You All Hate Her I'm Her Number One Fan and I'm Gonna Stick up for Her

shame_on_you


I don't hate Ventress. But Mace Windu and Padme required death scenes because we never saw them in the OT. Well, Ventress never shows up in ROTS or the OT. My conclusion is she's dead.

This thread is purely speculating the way Ventress dies (if it all) and opinions on how it should be handled.

 

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JediLight
Near Marathon on 06-09-08 (ROTJ short)
Best Episodes: ROTS, ESB; Underrated: TPM; Overrated: AOTC, ANH
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Arawn_Fenn  10329 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 11/2/08 2:54pm Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death
Maybe she gets frozen in a block of carbonite and deposited in an Indiana Jones-style Imperial warehouse.

 

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Alpha-Red  2604 posts
Registered: Apr '04
48839_Padme (711094)
Date Posted: 11/4/08 12:22pm Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death
TogashiAikune posted:
Both of which were released before the new CW cartoon altered her character. According to the updated Databank, Dooku has trained her to the point where if Sidious found out he'd kill them.


Meh, as much as I enjoy the CW cartoon, if there's a conflict between it and Dark Rendezvous, I'm going with the latter. Sidious knew about Ventress and pretty much understood that she was just a minion. Dooku was also becoming increasingly frustrated with her lack of success in numerous missions and by the time Obsession rolled around, decided to get rid of her.

And speaking of Obsession, this topic shouldn't even exist since Ventress's final fate has already been covered and done so in an appropriate fashion.

 
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MvG-88  203 posts
Registered: Oct '08
6222_IG-88
Date Posted: 11/5/08 3:34pm Subject: RE: The Perfect Ventress Death
On the two Sith theory I don't think it's physically impossible for more than two Sith to exist at the same time, as I understand it, it's a question of Sith betraying and backstabbing each other, so with only two there is somewhat of a power balance (until naturally the apprentice becomes stronger than the master). It all becomes evident when both Vader and the emperor try to turn Luke, each aware of the other's intention (even though the whole two Sith thing wasn't thought of back then).

As for Ventress I don't like her, she is a messy character. Maybe it becomes clearer if you read some novels (something I am reluctant to do), but only watching the old and new Clone Wars leave you mighty confused. Is it the same Ventress or two versions of the same character? In the old one she is introduced to Sidious, and he doesn't seem to mind, in the new one she seems to be a tool of Dooku's and kept hidden from Sidious. She just confuses me, it would have made sense to give her some for of introduction in the movie, but she's just there, and everyone acts like they know her confused

As for her death, I ope Anakin kills her in a similar way to how he does in the old one, so that we can see a bit of his dark side as well. If we are to create a rather dark scenario, it would be interesting if Anakin struck her down in rage after Ventress killed Ashoka, but that probably wouldn't work since there are kids watching, also, I'm not sure I'd enjoy it ^^

 
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