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Author	Topic: Obi Wan was a chronic liar?
Dolt Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 3/1/06 6:15pm Subject: Obi Wan was a chronic liar? - Date Edited: 6/23/06 10:35am (1 edits total) Edited By: strawbary
	That's the new reassessment by one of my pals. He actually sat down and watched all six movies in order recently, and feels that Obi Wan just doesn't come off that well in Ep 4 now. His new view is that Kenobi just "starts making up s--- for the hell of it, like when he give the lightsaber to Luke and says 'your father wanted to you to have this when you were older.' There's no reason to say that!" I maintained that he said it in order to convey to Luke the importance of the saber and catch the kid's attention, but he insists that the whole scene plays differently now. He also now believes that Owen and Beru had no idea who Darth Vader was or that he was once Anakin, whereas I think Kenobi must have told them at some point, hence the 'follow me around on some damn fool crusade' line, plus if he really wanted to protect Luke, he had to tell them what to keep an eye out for. What do you guys think? Clive -----signature----- HOMEMADE HOLLYWOOD: FANS BEHIND THE CAMERA The first book about fan films! “An amazingly inspirational book for filmmakers”--MicroFilmmaker Magazine HOMEMADE HOLLYWOOD at Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/33z5uc Get fan film news at http://www.fancinematoday.com
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ThePariah Registered: Jan '03	Date Posted: 3/2/06 6:27am Subject: RE: Obi Wan was a chronic liar? - Date Edited: 3/2/06 6:42am (2 edits total) Edited By: ThePariah
	Abhay, would you care to regale us once more with your famous quote about Obi-Wan? Something about being a compulsive liar and a violent drunk?? Old Ben has to looked at like a relative or friend who tells white lies (albeit really big ones) for the sake of sparing one's sanity or self-esteem. There are just some times when telling the God honest truth is flat out tactless or even dangerous. Like somebody said somewhere else that I read recently (can't remember where or who), casually mentioning right then and there to Luke, "Oh, by the way, here's the lightsaber I took from your father after I hacked off his limbs and left him to burn alive on a lava bank because he turned to the Dark Side, which included slaughtering younglings with this very same lightsaber and choking your still-pregnant mother..." would have been the absolute worst thing possible. If Luke hadn't just jumped off a cliff from hearing that info, he'd certainly go nuts. He's too wet behind the ears to handle stuff that heavy. Of course, that doesn't mean Ben's totally justified in saying what he says--no, he doesn't really need to embellish the fake backstory as much as he does, though it has a basis in truth. Think about what Anakin felt about expecting children: as twisted as his obsession became, he loved Padme and felt very blessed to have a child. He would do anything to protect them. If everything hadn't gone to crap and he hadn't been so stupid, it's not absurd to imagine Anakin doing something like passing on his lightsaber to his son. The intent would have been there. And even later on, though it's never overtly stated in the movies, we can infer that Vader's obsession with finding Luke involves his deeply buried paternal feelings for his son. He does love him. Really, the best thing Ben and Yoda could have done was start off Luke's training and then have a good long talk with him about what really happened with his father. That would have kept Luke's trust in them cemented. Their keeping mum and having Vader drop the bombshell was a gamble that blew up in the Jedi's faces--at that point Luke would have been justified in mistrusting them completely and joining his father. But thank goodness for the entire galaxy that Luke was smarter than everybody and chose not to turn. So yes, in conclusion Ben didn't do such a great job in planning his strategy for helping train Luke, but the man's intentions weren't all that dastardly. He was just suffering from a lack of faith in his errant pupil, a lack that he had reason to have--I mean, geez, when your padawan goes off and helps murder a whole Temple's worth of Jedi along with innocent children, your opinion of them can only go south. Even leaving Anakin behind to die, as spiteful as it was, is understandable--just put yourself in Ben's boots. The only person that I do expect to have enough feelings for Anakin to try to save him is Luke. And why is that, you may ask? The kid never knew his dad, and then only as a monster, while Ben practically raised Anakin and loved him as a brother first. Can you just imagine for a moment if someone you loved so deeply suddenly turned on you by destroying your entire world? How would that make you feel? If that wouldn't devastate and enrage you, you must be stone. As wrong as it was, I sympathize with Ben for leaving Anakin to burn. (Padme, on the other hand, I sort of understand her saying Anakin still had goodness with her dying breath because she knew all along why he did what he did, but that's another story...) While Luke never knew Anakin except in tall tales and ugly Imperial reality, his innate compassion and yearning to have a father at all inspired him to work at saving Anakin. As for Owen and Beru--that's anybody's guess, it could go either way. From the novelization of ROTS, Yoda regards them as Luke's closest direct family; by law they really are his aunt and uncle, through marriage. Therefore Ben would have good reason to properly inform them that this was Anakin's child, at least. I'm pretty sure they were aware of that much. If they weren't told that Anakin was also Vader, though, Owen would still have something to be disgruntled about. Multiple reasons, in fact. There may be harbored resentment against Anakin for leaving his mother behind for years, then showing up and making a scene for nothing (only coming back with Shmi's body) and disappearing again, then fathering offspring and not even being around to take care of it. That seems petty, though. Owen's later gruffness and references to Luke being too much like his father might not be veiled foreshadowing about his knowledge of Vader, but simply that Luke is reckless like Anakin was and he doesn't want his nephew coming to harm or doing stupid things. He may insult Ben to Luke's face to discourage the boy from contacting him and learning about the Jedi, to either stay out of his father's path or remain safe from the Empire's prying eyes (like you said, Clive, you'd think Ben would tell them how dangerous it was to be a Jedi now). So this kind of stuff is hard to tell. Okay, this came out way more long-winded than I thought it would, but...there. You got my $.02. -----signature----- Eternal Groveler to rhonderoo, VaderLVR64, Knight_Aragorn, Oba, & the SJRS crew Has a postcard from the Dark Side. "I suspect that most if not all the world's ills could be cured by humour transplants."--Karen Traviss TEMPORARY SET-UP!!!
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TheBothanJedi Title: FF President, DB 516 L.I. NY Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 3/2/06 12:41pm Subject: RE: Obi Wan was a chronic liar?
	$.02? that was more like $1.50! But you do make many good points.
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ThePariah Registered: Jan '03	Date Posted: 3/2/06 2:33pm Subject: RE: Obi Wan was a chronic liar?
	-----signature----- Eternal Groveler to rhonderoo, VaderLVR64, Knight_Aragorn, Oba, & the SJRS crew Has a postcard from the Dark Side. "I suspect that most if not all the world's ills could be cured by humour transplants."--Karen Traviss TEMPORARY SET-UP!!!
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Inno-Vader Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 3/3/06 3:15pm Subject: RE: Obi Wan was a chronic liar?
	It would seem the good guys lie more than the bad guys! I wonder if anyone kept a tally of lies throughout the saga ... as my Vulcan friend would say ... "Curious." Chris -----signature----- HAHAHAHA!! Inno-Vader says: 1.) GG = Sebulba after podracing accident! 2.) Motti coughs up an egg yolk! 3.) What was Oola's problem anyway?
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MasterSifo-Dyas Title: FF DB516 Council Member. L.I. NY Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 3/5/06 8:27pm Subject: RE: Obi Wan was a chronic liar?
	I listened to the radio drama recently and Luke mentions that Uncle Owen had to actually run Obi Wan off the property as if he was a crazy old man. Maybe thats what Owen told Luke, or owen actually knew all that had happened. We can give uncle Owen credit for being so disiplinary with Luke - maybe thats why he turned out to be such a good kid. --Billy -----signature----- This is madness. They've gone too far this time.
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Moorglade Title: Webmistress, Long Island, NY Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 3/5/06 10:06pm Subject: RE: Obi Wan was a chronic liar?
	We were listening to audio of AOTC in the car today, and the scene of Obi mind whammying the death stick struck me as being just plain wrong. The mind whammy is so close to dark side already - it's messing with someone's thoughts, which is just about the most invasive thing you can do to a person. And here Obi is, doing it for no reason other than his own opinions on what he thinks is right. He's not protecting himself or anyone else, and it does nothing to aid him in any way. Yes, I know... he learned it from Qui-Gon. But at least Qui only used it when he needed to, or thought he did. This incident seems especially... pointless. Okay, so that's not really about lying, is it... What was the question again? And I think Ark's quote was "a compulsive liar and a violent drunk". It's still a favorite of mine. -----signature----- thrust... plunge... twist twist twist... pull out I reject your expanded universe, and substitute my own! Don't give Lucas anymore money - he'll just blow it on fx booze Friends don't let friends con sober
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CieSharp Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 3/14/06 4:50am Subject: RE: Obi Wan was a chronic liar?
	MasterSifo-Dyas posted: I listened to the radio drama recently and Luke mentions that Uncle Owen had to actually run Obi Wan off the property as if he was a crazy old man. Maybe thats what Owen told Luke, or owen actually knew all that had happened. We can give uncle Owen credit for being so disiplinary with Luke - maybe thats why he turned out to be such a good kid. --Billy Yeah, I read an interesting post on TFN a while back -- something about Anakin being very aloof, feeling like the center of the universe, while Luke was more sociable, and wanted to contribute to the team. It was all contributed to Anakin hearing that he was the chosen one, versus Luke being told that he could only waste time with his friends when his chores were done. -----signature----- Duel of the Fates - Translation and Purports from Sanskrit http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=11461050 Star Wars and Hinduism \| http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=11178560 http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=11384555
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ThePariah Registered: Jan '03	Date Posted: 3/14/06 5:57am Subject: RE: Obi Wan was a chronic liar?
	Yeah, it's for the same reason in a way I'm glad I grew up poor--eating crow and being humbled does wonders for your character. For Anakin it was all a power issue because he was a slave and felt he needed to put people in their place for wronging him and his loved ones. Luke wasn't raised rich either, but he was free and had a good family unit in a stable household. He was the runt who always got picked on too, but his situation wasn't nearly as bad as his father's. And yes, of course, nobody was around to tell Luke, "Hey, you're the son of the Chosen One, impress us!" and stoke his ego. I always say your childhood isn't much of an excuse to become a serial killer--my mom grew up watching her whole family being beat up by her father and she hasn't gone on any homicidal sprees--but I do admit it doesn't help things. If Anakin had had the benefit of growing up free and not having to worry about his mother, he might have been that much less tainted. The preview of the upcoming issue of Rebellion #1 shows a flashback of Uncle Owen talking to Luke--not yelling at him or chastising him, just reminding him that certain things need to be done by necessity, and he even gives him some praise: "You keep your mind on your work and this'll get done a whole lot quicker. I know you want to be off having fun, but these solar panels need fixing or we get no power. Discipline's important. Doing what you're told isn't easy, I know, but sometimes...it's good for you. You hear me, Luke?" "Yes, sir, I do." "...You're good at this work, Luke. You could be a vaporator technician someday." [quietly to himself]"Whoopee." The link to the artwork is here: http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=13-359&p=1 -----signature----- Eternal Groveler to rhonderoo, VaderLVR64, Knight_Aragorn, Oba, & the SJRS crew Has a postcard from the Dark Side. "I suspect that most if not all the world's ills could be cured by humour transplants."--Karen Traviss TEMPORARY SET-UP!!!
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