| Author |
Topic:
Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
|
Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
|
Date Posted:
6/17 5:37pm
Subject:
Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
- Date Edited:
6/17 5:39pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jango10
|
Note: This thread is for in depth discussion of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, particularly about the film's flaws. For a more lighter discussion thread please go here.
I don't think any more introduction is needed. Go.
For a critiquing of the film's strengths, go here.
-----signature-----
"I love the smell of Napalm in the morning."
McCain/Palin '08
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
|
Date Posted:
6/17 5:39pm
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
|
It's not something that went wrong, per se, but we sure had to wait a long time for Indy 4 to actually get made. Just wish they could have got it made sooner, for one thing. 
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
|
Date Posted:
6/17 5:46pm
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
|
|
For me, I would say the absolute biggest flaw of the film, would be the plot. Count me in the group that believes that aliens do not belong in an Indiana Jones film, and that the ending was way too out there, even for Indiana Jones. The Indiana Jones films have always been about the supernatural, not the extraterrestial. I could have bought the film a whole lot better had the alien (and the spaceship) itself had not been seen. (Don't even get me started on the inter-dimensional beings crap.)
-----signature-----
"I love the smell of Napalm in the morning."
McCain/Palin '08
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
|
Date Posted:
6/17 5:52pm
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
|
Jango10 posted:
For me, I would say the absolute biggest flaw of the film, would be the plot. Count me in the group that believes that aliens do not belong in an Indiana Jones film, and that the ending was way too out there, even for Indiana Jones. The Indiana Jones films have always been about the supernatural, not the extraterrestial. I could have bought the film a whole lot better had the alien (and the spaceship) itself had not been seen. (Don't even get me started on the inter-dimensional beings crap.)
I think the plot isn't really a problem at all. The McGuffin is just an excuse to get the action going, and this being the late 50's, the Soviets were probably the obvious choice to have for the enemies. The ending is actually a great conclusion to the Indiana Jones saga (assuming there were no more movies) because we've seen Indy grow from a small boy (at least if you watched the TV series) to his late years where he's more or less ready for retirement, and to his surprise finds out that he has a son with the one true love of his life, Marion. That is truly a terrific way to end the movie, if no more movies were made, it sure would have gone out on a very high note. And the beings in the movie aren't really extraterrestrials, they are from the "space between spaces" or some such thing. Which actually fits in very nicely with the homage to the B-movies of the late 50's.
I really don't think the film could have been complete without showing us the interdimensional being and the device they used for "inter-dimensional" travel, that kind of revelation almost always was the high point of many sci-fi movies of the era, so it makes perfect sense.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
NZPoe
Registered:
Nov '01
|
Date Posted:
6/17 6:08pm
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
- Date Edited:
6/17 6:10pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
NZPoe
|
I think Princess_Tina is confused about what thread she's in, Jango. There is a thread already made, by Jango, which befits your comments better.
And before you jump down my throat about how "all discussion should represent all sides of the argument" etc etc etc, you will take notice that this is a WHAT WENT WRONG thread and you haven't posted anything about "what went wrong", only that you've come in here to rebutt. Please respect the OP of this thread.
For me, I think the biggest weakness was the second-half of the script and the fact that the Communists were not as threatening or scary as the Nazis were in the previous films.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
HanSolo29
Title: Manager:
• Fan Art
• LFL Projects/ Indy IV
Registered:
Apr '01
|
Date Posted:
6/17 6:24pm
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
|
|
Before I go on, I want to say that I'm in the camp that loved the film. But of course, all things are not perfect. After walking out of the midnight show on opening night, I didn't know what to truly think of the film. I was torn whether I actually liked it or if it will ultimately follow the path of the Prequels. The major reason for this was the whole alien angle revealed at the end. I didn't think it fit into an Indiana Jones film and I was expecting something more along the lines of the supernatural from the previous films. Things were too literal and even Spalko's death was cheapened by that. It wasn't until I saw the film two more times that I finally came to accept that plot point. It still gets me a little uneasy, but I can live with it and I can accept it as part of the story now. I'm not trying to make excuses for it, but it is definitely a major hurtle to overcome in terms of fully enjoying the film.
-----signature-----
"One little spark of inspiration is at the heart of all creation."
"Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13
TK-2685; Garrison Carida, 501st Legion
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
|
Date Posted:
6/17 6:25pm
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
- Date Edited:
6/17 6:29pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Princess_Tina
|
NZPoe posted:
For me, I think the biggest weakness was the second-half of the script and the fact that the Communists were not as threatening or scary as the Nazis were in the previous films.
You came into the discussion a little bit late, if I remember correctly, and so I've already mentioned a few of the things that didn't seem quite right at least on the very first viewing of Indy 4. However on later viewings, those small things that I had noticed the first time didn't seem quite such serious problems.
The second half of the script, in my humble opinion, isn't a major flaw in the film. It actually does add an extra layer to the movie, that goes beyond the ordinary action-adventure stuff. So I'd be of the opinion that it would have gone majorly wrong if it hadn't done what it did. As for the communists, well, they seem to me to be very much like Nazis. I really was scared that Irina would do something mean to one of the good guys, especially Mutt or Marion.
You know that scene where Irina and Marion are in the same car during the jungle chase? That scene has me on the edge of my seat every single time.
HanSolo29 posted:
The major reason for this was the whole alien angle revealed at the end. I didn't think it fit into an Indiana Jones film and I was expecting something more along the lines of the supernatural from the previous films.
I know this comes up frequently, and it really surprises me, so I'd like to ask you - how much did you know generally about the story before watching the movie? For some reason, I just assume that many people would have guessed, in the absence of any spoiler information, that if the movie was set in the 50's, it would take quite a bit of inspiration from the B-movies and sci-fi movies of the 50's. To me, it just seems like a natural progression from what Lucas and Spielberg were trying to do with the earlier movies, which were mostly homage to the serials of the 30's.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
HanSolo29
Title: Manager:
• Fan Art
• LFL Projects/ Indy IV
Registered:
Apr '01
|
Date Posted:
6/17 6:55pm
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
|
Princess_Tina posted:
I know this comes up frequently, and it really surprises me, so I'd like to ask you - how much did you know generally about the story before watching the movie? For some reason, I just assume that many people would have guessed, in the absence of any spoiler information, that if the movie was set in the 50's, it would take quite a bit of inspiration from the B-movies and sci-fi movies of the 50's. To me, it just seems like a natural progression from what Lucas and Spielberg were trying to do with the earlier movies, which were mostly homage to the serials of the 30's.
I knew a fair amount. Although, the thing I was left in the dark about was the ending. There were some things I wanted to keep a surprise and unfortunately, it wasn't exactly the kind of surprise I was expecting. I know way before the film was released when the rumors of the saucer and an actual alien first appeared, I laughed at how absurd that sounded, but here we are. I completely understand the whole sci-fi/50s connection and what Lucas and Spielberg were trying to achieve, but it doesn't change the fact that this felt disconnected from the rest somehow. Don't get me wrong, it does improve on repeat viewings and as I said, I have come to accept it, but it does take a lot to swallow.
-----signature-----
"One little spark of inspiration is at the heart of all creation."
"Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13
TK-2685; Garrison Carida, 501st Legion
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
|
Date Posted:
6/17 7:03pm
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
|
HanSolo29 posted:
I knew a fair amount. Although, the thing I was left in the dark about was the ending. There were some things I wanted to keep a surprise and unfortunately, it wasn't exactly the kind of surprise I was expecting. I know way before the film was released when the rumors of the saucer and an actual alien first appeared, I laughed at how absurd that sounded, but here we are. I completely understand the whole sci-fi/50s connection and what Lucas and Spielberg were trying to achieve, but it doesn't change the fact that this felt disconnected from the rest somehow. Don't get me wrong, it does improve on repeat viewings and as I said, I have come to accept it, but it does take a lot to swallow.
I generally steered clear of all spoilers, but I did know that some of the movie took place in Area 51, and of course I immediately made the connection with the supposed UFO crashed landings, alien technology, crystal skulls, and from that it seemed perfectly natural that they'd pay homage to the sci-fi/50's stuff, and maybe even a nod to the cold war and anticommunist paranoia.
So the part with the aliens or interdimensional beings, just didn't seem unexpected, rather the revelation was something that to fit in nicely with the kind of larger-than-life phenomena that have been explored in other Indy movies. Well, out of the ordinary life, maybe is a better phrase.
The real surprise to me, really, was the wedding scene, because I don't know why it just makes me start crying (for real!). And of course the moment when Indy snatched his hat from Mutt was sheer delight, a most wonderful surprise. It's one of those moments that comes along very rarely for me in the movies (for me the other ending that really totally had me swooning was BTTF3)
I think there was a joke somewhere in the novel that Indy has to put on bifocals to be able to read the small print in one of the maps or some document... I'm not sure if I'd have liked to watch that in the movie, if they ever filmed it to begin with. Let's just say that if such a scene was filmed, I'd be very happy to see it as a bonus feature on the DVD! 
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Go-Mer-Tonic
Registered:
Aug '99
|
Date Posted:
6/18 10:37am
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
|
|
Nothing. At least not for me.
-----signature-----
"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
|
Date Posted:
6/18 11:06am
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
|
Go-Mer-Tonic posted:
Nothing. At least not for me.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
|
Date Posted:
6/18 1:51pm
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
|
|
I find that the unrealistic aspects of the jungle chase -- the monkey king scene and the tree-driving shots in particular -- take me out of the movie and cause me to roll my eyes at the level of ludicrosity involved. But these are brief, and of a piece with similar moments of implausibility in the other sequels, so I forgive them and move on.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
|
Date Posted:
6/18 2:06pm
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
|
Vortigern99 posted:
But these are brief, and of a piece with similar moments of implausibility in the other sequels, so I forgive them and move on.
That's kind of how I felt since the first time I watched KotCS - some of the moments were right up there with stuff in TOD and Last Crusade, whether you call them silly, outrageous or amazing. That's why watching this latest installment truly brought me back to the "good ol' days"... 
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
goodfellas
Registered:
Jun '03
|
Date Posted:
6/18 6:12pm
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
- Date Edited:
6/18 6:13pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
goodfellas
|
The film went too far when it came to Indy defying death. After he survived being slammed around in a fridge at a thousand miles per hour, I never felt that he was in danger again. And the waterfall gag just felt stupid, especially given how many times random villains fell to their deaths in the movies.
The monkeys bit was extremely corny.
Ray Winstone's character was kind of pointless.
The deaths weren't all that cool either. I would've preferred if all of the baddies got abducted, and didn't go gently. I also didn't like seeing the alien at the end, but I did like the spaceship.
I seriously liked the movie though, but the above are reasons why it is tied for second place instead of comfortably in second.
-----signature-----
more like UNwise
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
|
Date Posted:
6/18 6:44pm
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
|
|
I do want to point out that, although I too found Mac to be "pointless" the first time I saw the movie, it later occurred to me that he represents exactly what Indy is not: a greedy tomb-raider out for fortune and glory. Mac makes a compelling counterpoint to Indy's essential goodness and heroism, and underscores the idea that these movies are about doing the right thing even more than they are about nifty archeological hunts and supernatural artifacts.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
|
Date Posted:
6/18 6:47pm
Subject:
RE: Critiquing of the Crystal Skull - What Went Wrong?
|
goodfellas posted:
The film went too far when it came to Indy defying death. After he survived being slammed around in a fridge at a thousand miles per hour, I never felt that he was in danger again. And the waterfall gag just felt stupid, especially given how many times random villains fell to their deaths in the movies.
But Indy has been through some remarkable death-defying stuff before. I mean, seriously, getting shot at with automated machines at the Club Obi-Wan, leaping out of the window, crashing down all of that stuff, and that's just before he and the others jump off the plane that's about to crash. And it goes without saying that in typical Hollywood-style fantasy, the good guys oftentimes seem unbeatable and the bad guys get wiped out. I mean, that's why all of the Stormtroopers could never seem to hit Luke, Han and Leia, and yet the heroes were always killing just about every Stormie in sight.
goodfellas posted:
The monkeys bit was extremely corny.
I didn't think they were any cornier than the Nazi-sympathizing monkey in Raiders, personally.
goodfellas posted:
Ray Winstone's character was kind of pointless.
Didn't find him pointless at all. Every single Indy movie has a character who seems predestined to shift allegiances, or to act out of seemingly misplaced allegiance; certainly to me the movie wouldn't have been as much fun without him.
goodfellas posted:
The deaths weren't all that cool either. I would've preferred if all of the baddies got abducted, and didn't go gently. I also didn't like seeing the alien at the end, but I did like the spaceship.
The way the main Russian guy seriously gave me chills. And Irina's death is perfectly fitting with her lifelong obsession - Indy did warn her that she might get exactly what she wished for.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
