Jedi Council Forums - The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)

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Author	Topic: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)
Mastadge Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 6/3/03 2:30pm Subject: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers) - Date Edited: 6/3/03 2:33pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Mastadge
	Since Caine seems to be slacking ( ), I've decided to step in. The drill: Rate SHATTERPOINT on a scale from 1 to 10. Please supplement your rating of SHATTERPOINT with a few words (or a lot, as you see fit). Previous review threads, in case you missed 'em: Tatooine Ghost Enemy Lines I: Rebel Dream Enemy Lines II: Rebel Stand Traitor Destiny's Way Force Heretic I: Remnant Force Heretic II: Refugee -----signature----- "This will be our reply to violence: To make music more intensely, More beautifully, More devotedly than ever before." - Leonard Bernstein
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lightsaber_wielder Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 6/3/03 2:35pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)
	//hands Mastadge an award for beating Caine to creating this thread. Oh well, I'm out of this thread and all other Shatterpoint ones until I get the book! Which, knowing living in Australia, won't be for another two months... //hurries off to avoid spoilers. -----signature----- "Show me the books he loves and I shall know a man far better than through mortal friends." - Dawn Adams "Music is the vernacular of the human soul." - Geoffrey Latham "A good story is any story you like." - Karen Traviss
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masterskywalker Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 6/3/03 2:51pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)
	Is it out yet? -----signature----- Peace to corrupt, no less than war to waste.
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Kreuzader Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 6/3/03 3:36pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)
	Yeah, it's out, I just picked it up an hour ago at the local Borders bookstore. -----signature----- :wq
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Gandalf the Grey Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 6/3/03 3:55pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)
	6.5/10. It definitely had its moments, but it was no Traitor (or Heroes Die, for that matter). Some good foreshadowing, some good supporting characters; Nick feels like an Aaron Allston character trapped in a Matthew Stover novel, and was probably my favorite character in the book. Depa was interesting, but I felt that to some degree the point of view used limited the exploration of her character that was possible. Palpy was his usual fun self; I hope other Clone Wars novels make similarly good use of him. The excerpts from Mace’s journal were hit-and-miss. Matt might not appreciate the comparison, but I thought that they worked best at philosophical explorations like those of Drizzt in R.A. Salvatore’s novels. The use of them to pull the story along didn’t work quite as well in my opinion. On a note that has nothing to do with whether I liked them or not, they reminded me very much of Caine’s monologues in Heroes Die and Blade of Tyshalle (go figure ). The two things that I didn’t like about the book were Mace himself and the battle at the end of the book. Jacen, I liked, and I liked him in Traitor. Mace I didn’t like, and this book didn’t do much to endear him to me. His general attitude was more Shaft-like than Jedi Master-like in my opinion. I seem to recall at one point Mace even using the “Any questions?” signature line. And finally, I felt kind of cheated in that it followed what feels to me like a conventional path and wrapped up with a big battle at the end (which the good guys win). With the general tone of the book, I was hoping for a quieter, darker ending. On the other hand, I thought that the action towards the end of the book was better written than that in the middle of the book. -----signature----- I play far, far too much World of Warcraft. L70s on Staghelm: Hopefire (Paladin), Silverbow (Hunter), Shadowhope (Rogue), Silverfire (Mage)
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Caine Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 6/4/03 5:22am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers) - Date Edited: 6/4/03 5:23am (1 edits total) Edited By: Caine
	It's out. Thanks for stepping up, Mast I'm still working on Refugee. [ sighs heavily ] I will get to this baby next -----signature----- "For what I do, weapons are irrelevant." -Jacen, from MWS' TRAITOR The Jacen Solo Fan Club: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=4379448 ~~~
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tmihah Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 6/4/03 8:23am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)
	I'm just cut/pasting my comments from the other Shatterpoint thread. Apologies in advance if anyone has read them twice: Just finished Shatterpoint today and let me say ... this book is not to be missed. I won't say I enjoyed it all the way throughout ... its not a "fun" Star Wars book (though there are moments of fun). It is more of an experience. In many ways, I found Shatterpoint to be even more exhausing than Traitor. Afterwards, I really felt as if I had been in a war myself, right along with the characters. I point this out because one of the few novels that had this effect on me was All Quiet on the Western Front, one of the supposed inspirations for this book. However, I found myself more weary of the Haruun Kal war than the hell that Paul faced on the German front lines. And that I guess is the point. Jedi feel death more acutely than regular people, and the code that makes them Jedi makes a concept of war especially damaging to them. In some cases, the mind can shatter. In others, the mind will be bruised but can recover (but will never be the same way again). The comments about Anakin Skywalker at the end of the book are especially appropriate and nicely placed to bring what feels like Haruun Kal's own universe directly into the GFFA. The conclusion Mace draws makes Anakin's journey seem all the more profound. That's a mark of an excellent Star Wars novel. It adds something new to the universe, an angle not previously seen or a written path not often taken. It makes the mythos that much more real to us, at the same time expanding the horizons of what could be. I'm glad not every Star Wars book is Shatterpoint-like. But the EU is much better for its creation. Thank you Mr. Stover for a great book. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go take a well deserved rest. 10/10
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JediTrilobite Registered: Nov '99	Date Posted: 6/4/03 6:50pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)
	I haven't finished yet, but I'll give it a 9/10. It's awesome from what I've read. Pretty deep in plot and dark. -----signature----- Ever wonder what happened during the clone wars? Visit: http://www.theclonewarz.net My Blogs: http://www.jeditrilobite.com , http://tk3220.wordpress.com TK-3220, NEG VT Rep
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Darth_Guy Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 6/4/03 7:02pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers) - Date Edited: 6/4/03 7:06pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Darth_Guy
	Slightly mixed reviews... hmm, I'd better pick Shatterpoint up and offer my own opinion. -Evan -----signature----- Perhaps I'll breed some sort of albino shouting gorilla.
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Mastadge Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 6/4/03 7:24pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)
	Please don't rate the book until you've finished it. Thank you. I'll have the book read by tomorrow afternoon, and won't be visiting this thread again until then, but so far: Counting 2 reviews: 16.5/20 = 8.25/10. -----signature----- "This will be our reply to violence: To make music more intensely, More beautifully, More devotedly than ever before." - Leonard Bernstein
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JediTrilobite Registered: Nov '99	Date Posted: 6/4/03 7:29pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)
	oh sorry -----signature----- Ever wonder what happened during the clone wars? Visit: http://www.theclonewarz.net My Blogs: http://www.jeditrilobite.com , http://tk3220.wordpress.com TK-3220, NEG VT Rep
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Mastadge Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 6/4/03 7:41pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)
	I didn't mean to jump on you; there's no need to apologize. It's just that it can get confusing if people rate it before they're done, and then go back and change their ratings, and so forth. And now I've made a liar of myself. This time I really won't be back until tomorrow afternoon. -----signature----- "This will be our reply to violence: To make music more intensely, More beautifully, More devotedly than ever before." - Leonard Bernstein
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Mastadge Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 6/5/03 3:03pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)
	Thanks to real life, I'm only about 100 pages in. So my thoughts won't be up until tomorrow. -----signature----- "This will be our reply to violence: To make music more intensely, More beautifully, More devotedly than ever before." - Leonard Bernstein
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Caine Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 6/5/03 3:06pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)
	Looking forward to your review, Mast (whenever it comes). An interesting beginning to this reviews thread. I wish I could finish Refugee. -----signature----- "For what I do, weapons are irrelevant." -Jacen, from MWS' TRAITOR The Jacen Solo Fan Club: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=4379448 ~~~
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Mastadge Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 6/5/03 3:16pm Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers)
	I got about 10 pages into Refugee. Then I gave up. I'll probably read it and Reunion when TFP comes out. Or force myself to read it after Shatterpoint just to get it out of the way. I must admit I'm very surprised that Gandolf gave Shatterpoint a lower rating than he gave Remnant. But I'll withhold any further commentary until after I'm done the book. -----signature----- "This will be our reply to violence: To make music more intensely, More beautifully, More devotedly than ever before." - Leonard Bernstein
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Mastadge Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 6/6/03 9:53am Subject: RE: The JC Lit Reviews Special: SHATTERPOINT (SHATTERPOINT spoilers) - Date Edited: 6/6/03 10:06am (1 edits total) Edited By: Mastadge
	I'm done the book, and I've changed my mind. I'm not going to even attempt to write a review. Whenever I try to review one of Matt's books, it ends up sounded like a press release or something. So I'll just offer some thoughts. I'll start off with my biggest problem with the book - the writing. It seems to be lacking polish. For the most part it's very well written, with the distinctive voice and compelling language that I've come to expect from Stover, but there's also a bit of clunkiness scattered throughout the book. Just to pick an example from the beginning, "It had been ten since anyone had last seen him smile" doesn't really work. "It had been ten since anyone had seen him smile" works. "It had been ten since he had last smiled" works. And such awkward phraseology occurs several times. Also: there were a huge amount of colons in this book. Some of them were necessary; some would have been better off as commas or dashes. Whatever the case, there were far too many: by my count, there were seventy-three bazillion of them. In round numbers. Despite these small textual issues, I hasten to point out that the book was still very well written. The reason the things that stood out did so was mostly because the rest of the prose was such smooth reading. As to the book itself: superb. An excellent Star Wars novel, and an excellent start to the Clone Wars novel campaign. Although the book is significantly longer than Traitor, it's all from the POV of one character: in this instance, Mace. I wasn't sure how that would go when I started the book, because Mace, as far as I was concerned, didn't really have a character. He had a couple of lines in the films, but for most of the comics he was just kind of there, without a whole lot of personality. So I didn't really have a clear mental image of the guy. But it turned out well. He turned out to be a compelling character. I guess the Star Wars novel that this most reminds me of in terms of content is a much darker Courtship of Princess Leia. Just a thought. It was good seeing a Jedi actually using the Force. Too often, but not always, the Force is used in pretty unimaginative ways, when it's used at all -- it seems that some authors forget that it's there until they come up with a scene specifically designed to use it in some neat way. But it's used frequently and often quite imaginatively here. I also really enjoyed the action. Nothing as powerful as the Ganner sequence, but it wasn't as abstract, either. There were lightsaber fights, Force-fights without sabers, ground battles, dogfights, everything, all done very well. Some of my favorite Star Wars fights are contained in this novel. Pretty action packed. All done very well. Those of you who liked seeing Luke in action with two sabers . . . just wait till you see Mace. Damn. Also, this book has a great deal of the humor that didn't make it into Traitor. A few of the jokes were groaners, but there were quite a few good chuckles in there as well. Some of the characters seemed pretty stock, but most were well-done, and I'd like to see more of Geptun down the line. So as a Star Wars novel it's a good, thoughtful, action-packed adventure. But it's also a Clone Wars novel. And it also works on that level. Though the events of this book probably don't have a huge impact on the Clone War itself, this book was a good introduction. It really defines the role of the Jedi in the war, which is essential because, for better or worse, it seems that all of the upcoming CW novels are about the Jedi participants, and it also really serves to underscore the difference between the Jedi and the fundaments of the Jedi Order in the time of the Republic, as opposed to the Jedi we're used to seeing in the NR/NJO days. This has been a topic of some discussion on these boards: the differences between how the two orders operated and trained and thought and functioned, and this book really helps to underscore both the differences and similarities. Of course, take this out of the GFFA, and it also serves as a war novel in its own right, going over territory familiar and less so about the rules of war, and the way war is waged, and the terror of war, and how no one really wins in a war, and all that kind of stuff. As far as I'm concerned, this book works on just about every level. It just could have benefitted from one last reading-over to get rid of those few textual problems. And a few fewer colons. A couple of questions: "Black is the presence of every color." Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't white the presence of every color, and black the absence of color? "One doesn't get forked by accident. It's the result of a mistake in play." Are these two sentences not contradicting each other? Perhaps the first should read "One doesn't get forked on purpose"? Or maybe there's some subtle distinction being made between an accident and a mistake, similar to the distinction Zahn made between an error and a mistake? And I really liked Mace's thought about how Yoda would have just walked the crawler casually up the mountain. A great read. Not Stover's best, and it's too early to tell yet how long it will stay with me, or whether it'll be my favorite Star Wars novel - it may be, though - but a very good effort. I give it a 9.7. Can't give it a perfect score, but 9.5 seems too low. P.S.: there was only one real continuity schlub I noted, and it was that Jedi have died in such numbers since the Sith War 4000 years ago -- in the Sith War 1000 years ago. As to the reference to the Republic being 1000 years old . . . I don't know. Maybe it was both the Jedi Order and the Republic that underwent major changes 1000 years ago, and that's been seen by "modern" historians as the birth of the Republic "as it is now," even though the government known as the Republic in fact existed in a slightly different form and function for much longer than that? Or something. . . -----signature----- "This will be our reply to violence: To make music more intensely, More beautifully, More devotedly than ever before." - Leonard Bernstein
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