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Author	Topic: The Debate Series -- Interlude I: Jacen up 9 Jan!!
SaberBlade Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 12/7/04 6:42pm Subject: The Debate Series -- Interlude I: Jacen up 9 Jan!! - Date Edited: 1/9/06 10:00pm (7 edits total) Edited By: SaberBlade
	Offered as proof that I am not dead, merely misplaced. And buried in work. There is, in my mind, a series of debates that must have taken place at some point after the NJO to resolve several issues Jaina would have to deal with, especially about falling to the Dark Side. This is my take on those debates. Though I'm a K/J writer, and though Kyp and Jaina are both prominent characters in these debates, I actually hope that I've achieved a rather nondenominational, if you will, approach to Jaina's love life in these debates. I'd like to focus on Jaina for a bit, and the consequences she's facing for what she became in the NJO. Kyp's the one she's talking to because towards the end of the NJO, he was more of her Master than Mara was. I hope that this fic is balanced between the serious and the amusing. Part of why I chose Kyp for her to debate things with rather than Jacen (who is the better thinker) is because Kyp and Jaina banter better. This is the first debate, the one that starts it all. It's not my personal favorite, so please, consider this just as a prologue. Debate II will hopefully be up tomorrow or later tonight - I have several of the debates written and just need the time to edit them. End of the ridiculously long Author's Note/Explanation. --- Debate I: Feeling --- “We’re too good at this, Jaina.” “What?” “This. We’re too good at doing this.” “Fighting?” “No, Goddess, at hiding behind rocks waiting for the all-clear signal. Of course fighting.” “Hey, sorry, don’t need to get all sarcastic with me. I was just checking.” “We do this too often.” “I’ll agree with that part.” “I mean, it’s bad enough that we have to do this at all, but fighting so much – I think I’m starting to lose myself a bit, Jaina.” “What do you mean? Are you all right?” “Get down, you idiot! Your head makes a pretty nice target, in case you’ve forgotten. I’m fine. I’m just saying, doing this so much is starting to change me, and I’m not sure I like it.” “You sure as hell better explain that one, Durron, because you just scared ten years off my life.” “Look, I think I’m just starting to loose my edge.” “You’ve been doing better than you ever have these past few encounters, and you know it.” “My fighting edge is fine– that not what I’m talking about.” “Then what are you talking about, because I’m not following.” “They don’t seem to matter anymore.” “Who doesn’t matter?” “Them. Any of them, all of them, whatever. None of them seem to matter.” “Oh...” “You know what I mean?” “Yeah. You stop seeing them as people, and they don’t matter anymore, so it doesn’t matter what you’re doing.” “Yeah. I’m losing my edge. I’m getting to the point where I can walk out of a fight and feel nothing about my opponent.” “Huh. Most sane fighters would envy you.” “You don’t.” “Nope. Look, do what I do: the guy you’re fighting is probably scared stiff. No matter what he does, he’s dead. He’s dead if he runs, he’s dead if he stays, he’s dead if he fights, he’s dead if he surrenders. If we let him live, someone else on his own side will kill him for being a coward. It’s the least we can do to let him go out in an honest encounter. It gives him a fighting chance, you know?” “I’ve tried that. It doesn’t really help much.” “Yeah, well, the fact that they’re trying to kill us isn’t much of an incentive to feel for them, is it?” “Not really, no. But Jaina, they have to matter. If they don’t matter – duck!” “Sithspawn, that one was close.” “You okay?” “’M fine. All good. You?” “Just a little warmed up. Have we gotten the all-clear yet?” “No– we’re still on stand-by. Look, Kyp, I know what you’re talking about. You just can’t let yourself believe that they don’t matter. They’re alive, and even if we can’t feel them through the Force, they’re still living and breathing and running around like everyone else. They have to count for something.” “If they don’t count for anything, I’m afraid I’m going to fall again.” “... yeah. Yeah, I’m scared of the same thing. That’s why I make them mean something to me. Even though they’re Vong and they’ve already lost and they should have really stopped fighting by now– they’ve still got to mean something, otherwise ...” “Otherwise you’ll go back to being what you were like on Hapes.” “Yeah. They’ll mean nothing, and killing them will be easy, and it’ll be so simple to just slide down that slippery slope back to the point where no one meant anything, and killing was something you could do without feeling anything.” “And if you don’t feel anything for them, then you’re angry at them because you know you should feel something when you just kill, and kill, and kill.” “And anger is of the Dark Side.” “Yeah. I’m afraid of falling again, Jaina, and this is just making it worse.” “It’s too much fighting. We see so much death – we do so many horrible things – that the shock wears off, and we know we should feel something, but there’s nothing really left to feel.” “No one else really understands it.” “No one else is as good as we are, either. ’Cause we’re the only ones that really understand what’s at risk when we lose ourselves.” “Because we’ve already lost ourselves before, and we don’t want to risk doing it again.” “Yeah. Look out, another incoming – that one was a bit further away this time.” “And all the other Jedi think that we’re such great fighters, and everyone thinks that we’re doing so well, and look at us. We’re practically falling apart.” “Speak for yourself, Durron. I’m doing pretty well at holding myself together.” “That’s why your knuckles are white and you go outside and brood each time we get back from a mission.” “Damn it. I thought I was hiding it better than that.” “From everyone else, maybe, but not from me.” “Great. I’m fine, really. I promise.” “Fine being a relative term.” “Isn’t it always?” “The others have it easy. They get to worry about distancing themselves, about keeping their emotion away so that they don’t think too much about what they’re doing. They’re the ones that have to try to forget that they’re fighting another living being, and they’re the ones that have to convince themselves that killing their opponent means nothing.” “They’ve got the easy way out. I’d take that over reminding myself of what I’m doing any day.” “You already took the easy way. That’s why we’re both stuck with this.” “Yeah, I suppose.” “You suppose?” “Yeah. You know, I think Yoda was wrong.” “Is he allowed to be wrong? I mean, I thought all Jedi Masters were infallible.” “You’re just saying that because you are one.” “You were supposed to agree with me.” “Nice try. Anyways, Yoda was wrong.” “About what?” “About how anger and aggression are the Dark Side. Indifference and just not feeling – those belong on the list too.” “Yeah, that’s true. But he also said that the Dark Side is pretty fast to try and take over when you’re fighting, so the guy couldn’t have been all wrong.” “He also beat Artoo over the head for a flashlight.” “Hey, Goddess, Dagobah was a really boring place – he probably needed all the excitement he could get.” “Excitement, hah! Adventure! A Jedi craves not these things. Oops, wait, there’s the all-clear signal.” “I can’t believe we’re quoting Yoda right before we have an encounter.” “He also said that the Force was for knowledge and defense, not to attack. Use that to help you remember that these guys we’re going to be fighting are more than just our enemies. Remember that they’re alive, and remember that you’re going to be taking that life from them.” “I will. I won’t fall– will you be all right?” “Yeah. I’ll be all right. Just – come bother me when I’m brooding tonight, will you?” “Sure thing, Goddess. On the count of three?” “We’re too good at this, Kyp.” “Yeah, we are. One, two, three, go!” --- In which the basic scenario is introduced. In my mind, they are fighting a group of rebellious enemies -- Vong, Peace Brigade, it doesn't matter. This is just supposed to be one average skirmish, one everyday encounter. What do you think? -Saber -----signature----- My fics are in my bio. And now they're even unlocked! The new fic series: Debates - http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=17715156&start=17719595 I'm amused. I'm constantly amused.
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DantanaSkywalker Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 12/7/04 6:48pm Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate I: Feeling - Date Edited: 12/7/04 6:55pm (1 edits total) Edited By: DantanaSkywalker
	snags first reply Me like lots. You always amaze me with these. Dana -----signature----- http://www.kypandjaina.net "I always liked Kyp Durron better, anyway." -- Han Solo H.A.L. 1979-2008. An saol seo, gui duit an saol eile. Congrats, babe. Hope you're still laughing, wherever you are.
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SaberBlade Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 12/8/04 8:46am Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate I: Feeling
	Thanks, Dana! Anyways, here we go with the real start of everything. --- Debate II: Greatness --- “You know the whole ‘great warrior’ and ‘Wars not make one great’ quote?” “Yoda said it– how could I not?” “You ever think maybe we’re the definition of that one?” “What do you mean?” “Well, we’re both pretty well known, right? I mean, everyone knows we’re Jedi and what we do–” “– and what we’ve done.” “Sshh, Kyp, I’m trying to be serious.” “So am I.” “Listen. Everyone knows who we are, and you’re supposed to be this huge power in the Force that might even be more powerful than Uncle Luke–” “What do you mean, ‘might’?” “Shut up. And I’ve got Skywalker blood and I’m descended from Darth Vader. I mean, both of us are looked up to as Jedi, right? You’ve got practically your own little harem follower thing going on.” “I have a harem?” “Whatever. You know half the reason that you had so many supporters during the war was because you’re better-looking than Uncle Luke.” “News to me.” “That’s right, you’re male. Males are usually incredibly dense about these things.” “Now you’re getting off-track. Weren’t you trying to have an argument with me somewhere in there?” “Oh yeah. Well, maybe I could get to it if you weren’t always interrupting me.” “Well, pardon me, Goddess. This mere mortal begs you to continue your – hey, no hitting!” “Now that I have your attention... Anyways, we’re both Jedi, we’re both well known, we’re both supposed to be powerful. We’re probably on the list of Jedi that the average citizen could name– hell, I think the average Vong probably knows our names.” “That was kind of the idea with the whole ‘goddess’ thing, Goddess.” “Yeah, but I mean, we’re practically the definition of ‘great warrior’. Follow me so far?” “... I think so, yeah. We fight and we kill and we’re good enough at it to live through it.” “And we’re who we are, so we make it look easy. The entire thing sits better on us than it does on some average New Republic soldier. They do the grunt work and get all muddy and show up in holos in ripped camo-gear exchanging blaster fire with the enemy around the corner. They’re not ‘great warriors’... they’re the warriors that everyone sees looking tired, and cold, and average. They’re the ones that actually get dirty. Then you see one of us come in, and we’re Jedi and so apparently we don’t get cold or dirty, and we just sort of waltz in with our elegant laser swords and gracefully spin around a few times and poof! No more enemy and we’re ‘great warriors’.” “You’re ignoring a few things.” “None that really matter. I mean, we know that we get cold and dirty and tired and all those things, but the rest of the galaxy? Unless they personally know us, we’re just names and deeds and a big list of battles. We’re more glamorous than the average soldier– we don’t wear those bulky protective armors, we don’t have to salute and call each other sir, we don’t even carry blasters.” “Right, we carry lightsabers, which means we have to get up close and personal with everyone trying to kill us, instead of hanging back and shooting at them from a safe distance.” “Yeah, but they see that as us being honorable, actually meeting our enemy in combat and not just seeing him as some faceless soldier that we shoot at. We risk our lives by standing up that close, and we’re so noble and honorable and all that.” “That’s ridiculous.” “Try telling that to the average citizen who’s never really even seen a lightsaber, much less one in battle. And holodramas and news reports don’t count.” “It’s still ridiculous. And you and I were pilots, anyway– how are we ‘great warriors’ when most – I didn’t say all, so stop glaring at me – most of our fighting was done up in space?” “Oh come on, pilots are great by definition. Just go watch any holo. They’re the ones that are daring and hotshots and all that. Wedge Antilles is more of a legend than any ground soldier. I’m telling you, you and I are the perfect examples of ‘great warriors’.” “Fine, I’ll buy that part. How’s this tie in with Yoda?” “He said, in reply to that whole ‘great warrior’ thing, that ‘Wars not make one great’. Didn’t you pay any attention at the Academy when Uncle Luke lectured?” “Well, in between hating Corran Horn and listening to Exar Kun, there really wasn’t much time for actually learning the Jedi code that I abandoned a few weeks later anyways.” “Ok, ok, so that was a stupid question. Anyways. Yoda pretty much said that wars don’t make you great.” “Aren’t you arguing that war did, in fact, make us great?” “See? That’s the problem. Don’t sigh like that!” “All right, Goddess, explain this one to me.” “Right. Okay. So we’re this whole ‘great warriors’ thing, right? We’re practically the definition of it. And Yoda’s standing here saying that it’s not enough.” “Yoda is most definitely not standing here saying anything, thank you very much. That would be just plain wrong.” “Don’t you believe in Jedi spirits?” “Maybe when I see one. Back to the topic. What’s not enough for Yoda?” “The fact that we’re great warriors. We’re not great Jedi because of it, because wars just don’t make Jedi great.” “War made us warriors, and we were good at it. Being good at war isn’t enough to make us good Jedi? Is that what you’re getting at?” “Exactly! I mean, neither of us really get this whole unifying Force thing, right?” “Yeah. But...?” “But Jacen does. Jacen! I mean, he’s a good fighter and all, but he’s not like us. He didn’t live like we did, fighting every day just to stay alive. You look at Jacen and the word ‘fighter’ is not the first thing you think. Hopefully.” “Hey, don’t be too harsh on him. The kid can hold his own.” “First off, I’m his big sister– I have to be harsh on him. That’s my job. Second, might I just add that it is truly weird for you to call Jacen ‘kid’, when I’m only five minutes older than him and I don’t think you’ve ever called me kid in your life?” “You’re changing the subject again.” “Oh. Right. Anyways, we’re the great warriors, and we can’t understand this unifying Force thing. And Jacen is the one guy who understands it perfectly. He’s the epitome of a great Jedi– you know, one for the history books not because he was a warrior like us but because he was just a good person and a good Jedi. He’s probably going to lead the next generation of us. He’s the great Jedi that will remembered long after you and I are forgotten.” “Nah, you’re the Sword of the Jedi. That’ll put you in the history books somewhere.” “Yeah, in a footnote. But this is Jacen. The I-am-Jedi-hear-me-meditate Jacen. He’s the great Jedi, not the great warrior. I think that’s the difference Yoda was trying to make when he was talking about war and greatness. A Jedi doesn’t become great through war. You and me, we’re great warriors, but we’re not great Jedi.” “That’s an interesting point, but I think I’d argue it a bit differently.” “How’s that?” “What if we’re not great Jedi for a different reason?” “What?” “Well, sure, we might be great warriors, but what if that’s not the reason we’re great Jedi?” “Then what’s the reason why we’re not great Jedi?” “Another Yoda quote.” “You said you didn’t pay much attention at the Academy.” “Oh, this one I learned.” “Let me guess.” “Yeah. ‘Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny’.” “Oh. Well. That’s a cheery thought.” “Yeah. Go think on that one for a bit, my young apprentice.” “Ooh, say that again. ‘Go think on that one for a bit, my young apprentice.’ No, no, wait, I couldn’t get the tone right. ‘My young apprentice.’ Honestly, Kyp, you worry me sometimes– hey, wait, stop! That’s cheating!” “You’re young, and you were my apprentice, and how is the fact that I know you’re ticklish cheating?” “Kyp!” --- In which there is some joking around and some serious thought. Hopefully. -Saber -----signature----- My fics are in my bio. And now they're even unlocked! The new fic series: Debates - http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=17715156&start=17719595 I'm amused. I'm constantly amused.
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Rowan_Jade Registered: Nov '03	Date Posted: 12/8/04 10:42am Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate II: Greatness Dec 8 - Date Edited: 12/8/04 10:43am (1 edits total) Edited By: Rowan_Jade
	Woot!!! Saber's ALIVE!!!!! Let's party!!!!! You have NO idea how nice it is to see that you are alive and well!!! And apparently DRL has not sucked you down totally. You've come back with humor, angst (so tres un-Saberlike that!)and......well.....yippee!!!! you're BACK!!!! Okay, favorites: “He also beat Artoo over the head for a flashlight.” “Hey, Goddess, Dagobah was a really boring place – he probably needed all the excitement he could get.” Niiiiiiiiccccceeee! And so very Kyp like in the reply! “Well, in between hating Corran Horn and listening to Exar Kun, there really wasn’t much time for actually learning the Jedi code that I abandoned a few weeks later anyways.” And I can just picture the smirk on his face at this one The I-am-Jedi-hear-me-meditate Jacen. And that sums up NJO Jacen perfectly! And the epitome of Saber's undying humor.... Another Yoda quote.” “You said you didn’t pay much attention at the Academy.” “Oh, this one I learned.” “Let me guess.” “Yeah. ‘Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny’.” “Oh. Well. That’s a cheery thought.” “Yeah. Go think on that one for a bit, my young apprentice.” “Ooh, say that again. ‘Go think on that one for a bit, my young apprentice.’ No, no, wait, I couldn’t get the tone right. ‘My young apprentice.’ Honestly, Kyp, you worry me sometimes– hey, wait, stop! That’s cheating!” “You’re young, and you were my apprentice, and how is the fact that I know you’re ticklish cheating?” Sheer perfection! Welcome back Saber, see ya around (I hope)..... Ro -----signature----- "If you have legs and are flamable, you are not blocking the fire exit" -Mitch Hedberg I am Evil, I am Old, I am YodaRo! Fear my snarkiness! "You're insane you know." -everyone around me Evil Old Wisdom Giver to the Maniac Mountain Clan
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DantanaSkywalker Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 12/8/04 2:49pm Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate II: Greatness Dec 8
	Heeeee! My favourite lines: "I have a harem?" "Hey, no hitting!" "The I-am-Jedi-hear-me-meditate Jacen." Once again, really great. So . . . okay, were you saying that Kyp and Jaina have been warriors so much they haven't concentrated on being great Jedi? I'm not entirely sure where you were going with that. Dana -----signature----- http://www.kypandjaina.net "I always liked Kyp Durron better, anyway." -- Han Solo H.A.L. 1979-2008. An saol seo, gui duit an saol eile. Congrats, babe. Hope you're still laughing, wherever you are.
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TheCrazyRodian Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 12/8/04 5:23pm Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate II: Greatness Dec 8
	Oh good! I want more! -----signature----- My body wears a green scent, as on the verge Between green laughter and green sorrow I have walked all day Until my legs have gone lame, and still the spring seems spirited away. --Yi Sanghwa
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Amidala_Skywalker Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 12/8/04 6:48pm Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate II: Greatness Dec 8
	Excellent, Saber! I prefer the second part. LOL at the Jacen comments! I get what you were saying, too. 10/10 with the philosophising. I’m in love with all-dialogue stories right now. I recently wrote one in the Saga forum. There’s definitely a certain beauty to them . Ams -----signature----- Amsié, Crest of Handmaidens . ___ TF.N Archive Reviewer ___ Battlestar Galactica is the new way.
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SaberBlade Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 12/22/04 8:46am Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate II: Greatness Dec 8
	Reply time! Rowan: yes, Saber is still alive. ::gasps:: barely. Silly finals. Silly school. Not really necessary, right? Anyways. Glad you liked some of the humor in here! I was laughing lots as I wrote it. Dana: I had to put the harem thing in there. It makes so much sense! okay, were you saying that Kyp and Jaina have been warriors so much they haven't concentrated on being great Jedi? I'm not entirely sure where you were going with that. Basically, Jaina's trying to argue that maybe they're not great Jedi (like Jacen, like Luke, etc) because they're great warriors. They've focused too much on fighting and not enough on other stuff, so they're not quite "great Jedi" material like Jacen is. Sort of a trade-off ... being "great warriors" is keeping them from being "great Jedi". TheCrazyRodian: Thanks! Amsie: The all-dialogue stories are so much fun! Dialogue's my favorite part to write in any story, and skipping straight to it just makes things easier. Of course, on the other hand, I keep wanting to put in "he grinned" or "he laughed" or "she simply stared". And pauses in conversation are the bane of my existence. --- Thanks for reading, everyone! Another one up in a minute or two! -Saber -----signature----- My fics are in my bio. And now they're even unlocked! The new fic series: Debates - http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=17715156&start=17719595 I'm amused. I'm constantly amused.
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SaberBlade Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 12/22/04 8:51am Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate II: Greatness Dec 8
	--- Debate III: Destinies --- “I’ve been thinking–” “Wow, I’ll alert the media– Jaina Solo has been thinking.” “I hate you.” “Glad to hear nothing’s changed. You were thinking?” “Yeah, I was thinking about what you said a while ago.” “Which a while ago?” “When we were talking about how wars don’t make you great, and you said that maybe the reason we’re not great Jedi is because we were both Dark Side at one point.” “Oh, that a while ago. What did you come up with?” “I think you might be right.” “Excuse me? Can you repeat that?” “Oh, shut up. It’s not like I’ve never said that to you before.” “Not nearly often enough. Excuse me, I have to go write this down on my calender– Jaina Solo agreed that Kyp Durron was right. And Bothans spoke only the truth and Ewoks danced in the Senate and banthas–” “Now I’m remembering why I don’t agree with you too often.” “Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyways, you were thinking.” “Yeah. It makes sense. You fell, I fell, Jacen didn’t. You and I don’t understand the unifying Force, and Jacen does. That’s pretty basic.” “It’s pretty superficial, too. Did you figure beyond that any?” “Just a bit. That quote – I asked Uncle Luke about it. He said that Yoda said ‘If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny’. Apparently, Darth Vader got used as an example of what it would do – ‘consume you it will’, according to Yoda. The guy had serious grammar issues. Threepio would have been driven nuts.” “He was a nine-hundred-year-old Jedi Master. He’s allowed to be a little eccentric.” “Still, the image of Threepio trying to deal with him is pretty priceless.” “I’ll grant you that much. Anyways, you had a point here somewhere?” “Yeah. But listen, just based on what Yoda said, you and I are pretty much doomed.” “Pretty much. I did a bit more than starting down the dark path, and, well...” “Yeah, I know. So did I. I don’t think hurling dark lightning is anywhere near the first few steps down that path. You and I were both pretty far down the road.” “You didn’t fall as far as I did.” “Not for any lack of intent– you’re the one that stopped me from taking those last steps. But I was close. I was really, really, close.” “Yeah. You scared me.” “I know.” “Interesting, isn’t it, that Yoda called it a dark path. Paths have to lead somewhere. Me and you, we didn’t really walk the path to the end. I wonder where the dark path leads?” “Destruction, I guess. Of you and everything around you and whatever once remained of your heart and conscious.” “You’ve been talking to Jacen again.” “Yeah, a bit. But the point is, you and I both qualify. We started down that dark path – did a bit more starting down the path than anyone should ever do. We came to the point where the Dark Side would dominate our destinies, said something like, ‘oh, that’s nice’, didn’t care, and kept going. We’re definitely on the hit list for the whole dominating destinies thing.” “You have such a way with words.” “But you’re not disagreeing with me.” “Nope. I figured that part out a long time ago. I’ll never escape from what I’ve done, and neither will you.” “And because we fell, we’ll never be great Jedi.” “Yoda never said that. Master Skywalker never said that.” “But it’s implied. By everyone.” “Well... yeah. It is.” “And we can’t ever escape it.” “Nope. There’s no way I’ll ever be anything but the Killer of Carida, and you, Goddess, might not have such a bad nickname, but being the Sword of the Jedi has a price.” “Yeah. And mine is a restless life, and I shall never know peace.” “You have to admit, Skywalker gave a hell of a speech with that little blessing.” “Blessing? Ha. Some graduation present.” “It was still a hell of a speech.” “Yeah. Not really like Uncle Luke.” “Yeah.” “...Uncle Luke fell, too, didn’t he? Years and years ago, right when Anakin was born?” “Yeah. And before you ask, no, he doesn’t count as fallen like we do because he was being controlled by the Emperor Reborn.” “Always an excuse.” “Always an Emperor Reborn, really. Zekk was the same way, right?” “Yeah. Didn’t go quite as far as me, though– he always kind of knew that what he was doing was wrong. He didn’t want his friends to be involved in it. He tried to warn me away from Yavin 4 before his side invaded. Me – Sithspawn, Kyp, I wiped the memory of one of my best friends. There’s a difference. Zekk fell nowhere near as far as I did.” “You scared him, didn’t you?” “Kyp, I scared everyone. Just because I didn’t kill a star like you did doesn’t mean that I was any less ... evil, I guess, inside.” “... it’s a bit strange to look at how you once acted and call yourself evil, isn’t it?” “Yeah ... It’s kind of a strong word, you know? There’s good and bad, and then there’s good and evil, and good’s always good, really, but there’s different levels of bad.” “And we sure as hell weren’t on the good side, so that leaves the bad and the evil.” “And bad is almost childlike now – nothing’s really just bad anymore. It’s good or evil, black or white. And that puts us as evil, and that’s a little strange to realize. I grew up hearing stories about how evil the Empire was, and how evil the Emperor was, and I hated him for throwing dark lightning and corrupting my grandfather and making him evil, and here I am now looking back and thinking that for a while, I was just as dark as he was.” “It’s a harsh wake-up call.” “But it’s necessary. I mean, you’ve got to admit what you did wrong before you can start to, I don’t know, atone for it. Redemption and everything.” “Doesn’t make knowing you were evil for a while any easier, though, does it?” “No... Do you ever get used to it?” “To knowing that you could have passed as a second Darth Vader if you hadn’t come back to the light? Get used to knowing that the Dark Side is always going to be there, dominating your destiny, like Yoda said?” “Something like that.” “Nope. Never.” “I didn’t think so.” --- In which there is humor, angst, and excuses made for other Jedi. Might not quite be the interpretation you're used to; sorry, I'm experimenting. What do you think? -Saber -----signature----- My fics are in my bio. And now they're even unlocked! The new fic series: Debates - http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=17715156&start=17719595 I'm amused. I'm constantly amused.
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Smuggler_Shidakis Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 12/22/04 11:16am Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate III: Destinies Dec 22!!
	wOOt! Go Saber! These are great. Some angst, some humor, and a lot of philosophy... but it doesn't seem like philosophy. Does that make sense? Very cool. -----signature----- K/J = Dark Lady of the JCC \| Master to Darth-Wanderguard Adopter of Rosh_Penin Désolée, mon président est un idiot. Je n'ai pas voté pour lui.
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Rowan_Jade Registered: Nov '03	Date Posted: 12/22/04 12:00pm Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate III: Destinies Dec 22!!
	In which Saber writes a very un-Saber-like section of a deep thought inducing, yet highly amusing, series of viggies. (Sort of) Angst, CHECK! Humor, CHECK deeeeeeeeeeep thoughts, CHECK CHECK CHECK Nice! I like the way you touched on how the "evil" was just a different level of bad (you are right, it seems there is never a distinction, good is just good but bad comes in increments apparently) and how all of the "fallen ones" each fell in a different way and at a different level. I also like the distinction between why Jaina and Kyp can never experience the unified force as Jacen has because they've fallen off the fence. Loved the bit about the Sword of the Jedi tag that Luke slapped on her. Very true and very amusing. You're working towards a new level of deep-angsty-thought provoking-Saberness huh? I'm really enjoying this series and how honest and real you are making the characters. I can fully se both Jaina and Kyp having these discussions and what they are saying is fully believable if compared to cannon. You can see that the characters COULD have been developed into something like they are here (not that DelRay would LET them be developed that way but hey, it's a dream). Anyway, nice, bravo, woot! Looking forward to the next "debate" Ro -----signature----- "If you have legs and are flamable, you are not blocking the fire exit" -Mitch Hedberg I am Evil, I am Old, I am YodaRo! Fear my snarkiness! "You're insane you know." -everyone around me Evil Old Wisdom Giver to the Maniac Mountain Clan
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Kazzy Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 12/22/04 1:33pm Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate III: Destinies Dec 22!!
	Nicely written. that much dialogue without actual setting description or anything is hard to pull off without completely ruining it, but you've done well I really enjoyed these little debates, it's quite interesting. -----signature----- If you could touch the alien sand, and hear the cry of strange birds, and watch them wheel in another sky, would that satisfy you? - First Doctor Looking for me? For my fic? Try my LJ. http://bytheseaside.livejournal.com/profile
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Jesina_Dreis Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 12/22/04 3:41pm Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate III: Destinies Dec 22!!
	Oooh, I love stuff like this!!!!! This is wonderful. It's reflective...great characterization, a great way to look at things. This is...I won't say great again. Um...Terrific!! Yeah, that's it. stops rambling Seriously, though, this is wonderful. The writing is superb, and your insights are well thought out and well in keeping with the characters. And I love the dialogue-only style. And I especially love the way you examine Jacen as a character. I'm not hardly a Jacen fan, but I actually like him the way you're writing him. And I love this line: The I-am-Jedi-hear-me-meditate Jacen Jes -----signature----- Stay safe, Ev Big sister to valin_halcyon Rest in Peace, Jeremy http://www.heatherjanes.com http://z9.invisionfree.com/downtime
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Saber_Leader Registered: Jan '03	Date Posted: 12/23/04 3:51pm Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate III: Destinies Dec 22!!
	eh, these aren't the debates I have major issues with other than possibilt: 'he doesn?t count as fallen like we do because he was being controlled by the Emperor Reborn." I'd argue that Kyp was controlled by Kun and therefore doesn't count for the same reason as Luke. -----signature----- "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak up and remove all doubt." "The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." "The truth is always bigger than the words we use to describe it." Dual Draft Winner
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djcati Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 1/4/05 9:31am Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate III: Destinies Dec 22!!
	I missed these. I don't know how -- you must've posted this last one during the night or something and I forgot to check the second page or whatever... Anyway, I've read them now. And...wow. The style's a really interesting and effective way of writing this kind of stuff -- dialogue-only is fun, ne? It works well, since they're, well, debates, so you're concentrating on the dialogue and the points that Kyp and Jaina are making, rather than actions that really don't mean anything. I like that. It's a really interesting fic. Serious and thought-provoking, but funny. ^_^ Brilliant. <3 -----signature----- http://admiraljello.livejournal.com/4778.html ----- "I have an A-wing on my laptop!" Yub yub, Commander!
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SaberBlade Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 2/12/05 6:59pm Subject: RE: The Debate Series -- Debate III: Destinies Dec 22!!
	Time to write again for the first time in a while!! Yay for time to write! - Debate IV: Comfort - “Hey Goddess – you doing all right?” “Yeah, I’m fine – what’s wrong? Are you all right?” “Yeah, yeah, I’m good. Just thinking a bit too much.” “Uh-oh, that’s never good. What’s bothering you this time?” “You.” “Wonderful! I can now bother the great Kyp Durron without actually being present to do the annoying.” “I don’t think you’re supposed to actually sit on the tables out here.” “No one else is around, so it’s fine. What’s got you worried about me now?” “Just something we were talking about last time. The whole Sword of the Jedi thing and what it’s cost you.” “Oh. That.” “Yeah, that. It’s a pretty big ‘that’, Jaina.” “Nothing different than what you have to live with the whole ‘Killer of Carida’ title.” “No, it’s different. Yours is a lot more detailed. What did Skywalker tell you?” “A bunch of stuff.’ “You’ve got his whole speech memorized, right? What’d he say exactly? I don’t remember it word for word.” “He just said that I’d never find peace, and that I’d have a restless life.” “Jaina.” “Fine. He said, and I quote, ‘I name you the Sword of the Jedi. You are like tempered steel, purposeful and razor-keen. Always you shall be in the front rank, a burning brand to your enemies, a brilliant fire to your friends. Yours is a restless life, and never shall you know peace, though you shall be blessed for the peace that you bring to others. Take comfort in the fact that, though you stand tall and alone, others take shelter in the shadow you cast.’ Happy now?” “Thrilled. Ever thought about what that’s going to mean for you?” “Just occasionally, every single night before I go to sleep. It’s not exactly fun to think about. What’s your point, Kyp?” “My point is, you think that it’s because you went to the Dark Side that you were named the Sword.” “Right.” “Why’s that?” “‘Tempered steel’. To temper steel, you have to burn it and beat the hell out of it. It’s not the greatest process if you’re the steel.” “Yeah, I was thinking along those lines too. So Skywalker basically said that going over to the Dark Side gave you purpose?” “Yeah. How can you think through this so fast? It took me a year to figure that one out.” “I’m not you. This isn’t dangling over my head like some pronouncement of doom.” “It isn’t a pronouncement of doom.” “Right. And the whole bit about living a restless life without peace all alone is just kind of a nice way of saying you’re all grown up and a big girl now. I doubt that’s what Skywalker had in mind.” “I kind of doubt that Uncle Luke had any of it in mind in the first place, Kyp. It’s not exactly the graduation speech he had planned.” “So it was the Force acting through him.” “That’s Jacen’s take on it.” “Kriff, you talked with him again?” “He’s good at puzzling stuff out. I told him what happened and what Uncle Luke said, and asked for his opinion on it.” “And?” “He agrees with you.” “That can’t be right.” “No, really, he agrees with you. He said something like how falling to the Dark Side was the crucible that forged me as the Sword. He thinks that being the Sword is somehow my atonement for being evil before.” “Atonement or redemption?” “Does it have to be one or the other? Why can’t it be both? What if by redeeming myself to the Jedi by acting as the Sword, I’m atoning for falling away from the code?” “You have been talking with Jacen.” “He is my brother, you know. We do talk to each other every now and then.” “What about punishment?” “Jacen doesn’t think that the Force would punish me. He says that the unifying Force isn’t good or evil, so there can really be no Dark Side –” “– tell that to someone who hasn’t used it.” “– and if there isn’t a Dark Side, then why would I be punished for using it? Don’t interrupt. If what he says about the unifying Force is true, then fine, I’m not being punished, but hey, I’ve never really understood the whole unifying Force thing anyways. And I know for damn sure that there’s a Dark Side, since I was it for a while.” “So Jacen thinks that being the Sword isn’t a punishment. Not from the Force, at least.” “Right.” “You don’t sound so convinced.” “I’m not. You think I like the sound of that whole ‘never shall I find peace’ thing, about standing tall and alone? I’m a burning brand to my enemies, great; I’m a brilliant fire to my friends, wonderful; I’m blessed for bringing peace, bloody fantastic. And I’m supposed to take comfort in the fact that I make the world a safer place when I don’t get to appreciate any of it. Yeah, it sounds a bit like a punishment to me.” “Punishment, redemption, and atonement, all at once?” “Why not? What did you call your Dozen?” “Ouch. Direct hit. I’m wounded.” “Uh-huh. Vigilante justice from the man whose own vigilante-ism destroyed Carida. The Force has a sense of humor.” “Is vigilante-ism even a word?” “The Goddess decrees it so.” “Sorry for remaining unconvinced.” “Anyways. Back to the original question– yes, Kyp, I’m fine. I’ll be fine. Being the Sword of the Jedi isn’t that bad. Between being all those things – I don’t know, it kind of balances, somehow. And yes, I’m restless, but really, so are you, so that just might be because I fell and got forged into this weapon of the Jedi. I can live with it, so stop worrying. I might as well worry about you and how you feel being called the rogue Jedi and the Killer of Carida.” “But you do, don’t you? Worry, I mean, about me being called things like that?” “... well, yeah. Because I know how it feels to have to deal with stuff like that.” “Good to know.” “It doesn’t mean I’m going to hover over you all concerned and keep asking if you’re all right, though.” “Point taken. I’ll stop hovering.” “Good.” “But Jaina?” “Hm?” “Do you?” “Do I what?” “Take comfort in the fact that you make the world a safer place, even if you don’t get to enjoy it?” “... yeah. Yeah, I guess I do.” --- In which they talk some more. Lead is probably bored out of his mind. Ten points to whoever picks my favorite line from this one. I had a lot of fun with it. And thanks to everyone for reading and the comments! I was a bit worried that this would be a little too strange for you guys to like! -Saber -----signature----- My fics are in my bio. And now they're even unlocked! The new fic series: Debates - http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=17715156&start=17719595 I'm amused. I'm constantly amused.
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