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Author Topic: Missing Grand Admiral?
chissdude10  7870 posts
Registered: Jul '01
7008_Clone Sergeant
Date Posted: 4/6/02 10:50am Subject: Missing Grand Admiral?
"I was on an information raid once, back when we were trying to get data on Grand Admiral Makati out of the Boudolayz library..." Page 32 from VotF.

I never heard of any GA by this name, who is he?

 
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DarkTreader  194 posts
Registered: Feb '02
14385_Drizzt<br>by RA Salvatore (A&A)
Date Posted: 4/6/02 10:52am Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
Dunno, C. I've never heard of him either.

 

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JEDI-SOLO  5986 posts
Title: Former FanForce CR
Lafayette LA US
 Registered: Feb '02
44334_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 4/6/02 10:56am Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
I thought Wedge Captured him. If I remember correctly that is.

 

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very-superior  563 posts
Registered: Feb '02
6431_Rebel Alliance Seal
Date Posted: 4/6/02 11:08am Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
chissdude, i think you mean martyrs

And who is making that statement you quoted?

 
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chissdude10  7870 posts
Registered: Jul '01
7008_Clone Sergeant
Date Posted: 4/6/02 11:10am Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
Bush

 
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Syntax  7135 posts
Registered: Aug '01
6217_4-LOM
Date Posted: 4/6/02 11:34am Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
Hmm.. I know the SW Essential Chronology lists off all 12 (well.. "13", technically) Grand Admirals. If y'all want, I'll list 'em all off, and what happened to 'em.

 

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Genghis12  18840 posts
Title: Manager Emeritus
 Registered: Nov '99
8181_Hoojib
Date Posted: 4/6/02 4:24pm Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral? - Date Edited: 4/6/02 4:30pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Genghis12
Syntax...
"Hmm.. I know the SW Essential Chronology lists off all 12 (well.. "13", technically) Grand Admirals."

Are you sure about that? wink

"If y'all want, I'll list 'em all off, and what happened to 'em."

Please do, using only the Essential Chronology.

It's interesting to note that the Essential Chronology uses some pretty specific wording. Thrawn is not a thirteenth Grand Admiral, because "...there could never be more than twelve at a time." By inference, a maximum of three Grand Admirals perished on the Death Star 2. I'll note it would be rather stupid to state "many other Grand Admirals perished on the Death Star..." to describe a quantity of one or two - that's not very many. The Essential Chronology goes on to state, "the remainder of the original twelve met their fates in the ensuing months..." and proceeds to name nine of the original twelve:
1. Zaarin
2. Syn
3. Grunger
4. Pitta
5. Takel
6. Il-Raz
7. Batch
8. Grant (so-called "Last Grand Admiral"
9. Thrawn

Of the original twelve, three remained unnamed. Furthermore, Emperor Palpatine had the ability to "create" three new Grand Admirals after the Battle of Endor to replace the ones lost on the Death Star, as well as "create" new ones to replace those who met their fates prior to his final destruction. Because Thrawn was the last Grand Admiral to bite it, and Palpatine lived after Thrawn's death, the possibility exists for there to be a total of 24 Grand Admirals out there. And if any of the second twelve were taken out prior to Palaptine's final death, he could have replaced them as well, yielding more than 24 possible. In fact, there exists the possibility, due to overlap of time that Palpatine himself personally promoted Pellaeon to Grand Admiral and that fact remained a secret until much later.

The final tally - we have no idea of how many Grand Admirals may actually be out there, and there certainly remains the possibility that Grand Admirals.v.2.0, GAv.3.0...etc. are floating about.

Makati could have been one of the original twelve, thought to have been destroyed on the Death Star or he could have been a replacement for any of the others.

 

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chissdude10  7870 posts
Registered: Jul '01
7008_Clone Sergeant
Date Posted: 4/6/02 4:31pm Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
Makes sense I guess

 
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Syntax  7135 posts
Registered: Aug '01
6217_4-LOM
Date Posted: 4/6/02 4:38pm Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
Hmm.. I never noticed that. i could'a sworn I'd counted 12. Well.. the Essential Chronology DOES clean it up for us, based on the wording, in terms of the ORIGINAL 12. If it says "the REMAINING admirals perished in the following months" and lists off 9, then that means that those 9 were all that remained, yes? And that if all 9 died, well, they're all dead. Which means 3 died on the DS2. So.. we know what happened to the original 12, even if we don't know how many other "false" GAdm.s there were.

 

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Grand Admiral Reese  12396 posts
Title: Former City Rep
Boston MA USA
 Registered: Sep '99
5582_Fan Force Boston
Date Posted: 4/6/02 4:40pm Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
I'm the missing Grand Admiral. wink

Decided to lie low after that ENdor debacle...

 

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Alion_Sangre  3673 posts
Registered: Dec '01
47622_Shark
Date Posted: 4/6/02 4:46pm Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
Well, we're pretty sure that Pellaeon was not promoted to Grand Admiral by Palpatine himself - otherwise, he could have easily pulled rank on what was left of the Empire after the destruction of Byss. Instead, he was a Vice Adimiral and subordinate to High Admiral Teradoc, not a position a Grand Admiral would have been in.

The way Palptine's Deep Core Empire was going, he probably didn't promote any Grand Admirals (in fact, the Dark Empire Sourcebook implies that he intentionally waited to reveal himself until after Thrawn met his end). It seems Palpatine was more intent on transferring the responsibilities of the rank of Grand Admiral over to Sedriss and his Darksiders. Makati was either a Grand Admiral who died post-Endor and was left out of the EC list or one of those who died on the Second Death Star.

 

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LanceJade  1370 posts
Registered: Mar '01
19680_Scout Trooper
Date Posted: 4/6/02 4:48pm Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
Don't forget, the last Grand Admiral... Pellaeon (according to the NJO Sourcebook). grin

 

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ReaperFett  15705 posts
Registered: Dec '99
6057_Bogg Tyrell
Date Posted: 4/6/02 4:50pm Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
Makati
this man was one of the twelve Grand Admirals who served Emperor Palpatine during the last years of the New Order. (VOF)

 

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chissdude10  7870 posts
Registered: Jul '01
7008_Clone Sergeant
Date Posted: 4/6/02 4:53pm Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
That tells us alot.

 
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III_Vir_RPC  233 posts
Registered: Jun '01
6026_Palpatine
Date Posted: 4/7/02 8:38pm Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
One should carefully examine the text of the section entitled "The Last Grand Admiral?" It clearly indicates that there was a limit of twelve grand admirals at any given time, and identifies the following grand flag officers:

  1. Grand Admiral Zaarin;

  2. Grand Admiral Syn;

  3. Grand Admiral Grunger;

  4. Grand Admiral Pitta;

  5. Grand Admiral Takel;

  6. Grand Admiral Il-Raz;

  7. Grand Admiral Batch;

  8. Grand Admiral Grant; and

  9. Grand Admiral Thrawn


The entry describes the abortive aspiration to Imperial dignity of Admiral Zaarin, and also states that "many other grand admirals perished with the second Death Star," and that "the remainder of the original twelve met their fates in the ensuing months."

It is known that Admiral Zaarin was replaced as one of the Emperor's favoured twelve by his blue-skinned pursuer, the chauvinist Grand Admiral Thrawn (ref. TIE Fighter). Because Admiral Thrawn is an ersatz grand admiral, he is not included in the entry's statement respecting the fates of the grand admirals.

Three other grand admirals have been identified by name in the Expanded Universe literature:

    [li]Grand Admiral Makati was briefly referenced by General Wedge Antilles (ref. Vision of the Future); one may assume him to be an authentic grand admiral rather than a self-styled rogue warlord.
  1. Grand Admiral Teshik is mentioned as the commander of the fleets patrolling the Ringali Shell prior to the Battle of Hoth. He was threatened by His Imperial Majesty The Emperor with execution should he fail to capture the marauding frigate Far Orbit, and one may conjecture that he was given the Imperial equivalent of the Republican shave for his failure.

  2. Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus was a prominent intrigant in the Imperial court, and was a noted opponent of Admiral Thrawn. The last known reference to Admiral Tigellinus identified him as a grand moff, which has been interpreted as a demotion (ref. Star Wars Adventure Journal #8, #9, #12, and #14)


Thus, it is probable that neither Admiral Teshik nor Admiral Tigellinus were still tenants of the prestigious rank of grand admiral as of the Battle of Endor. They, along with Admiral Zaarin, reduce the number of "original grand admirals" to nine by the time of the Battle of Endor.

If one assumes all the grand admirals mentioned by The Essential Chronology to have been original grand admirals (excepting Admiral Thrawn, who is known to be otherwise), the entry accounts for the fates of seven of the remaining nine original grand admirals. There remain two "first generation" grand admirals whose fates are then unaccounted for, who may be assumed to have perished aboard the second Death Star, as stated. One may assume Admiral Makati to have been one of those unnamed grand admirals.

However, Admiral Zaarin was quickly replaced, and it stands to reason that both Admiral Teshik and Admiral Tigellinus were, as well. This would allow for two additional grand admirals, as yet unidentified, either of whom -- or both of whom -- may have been aboard the second Death Star. The Essential Chronology suggests that both were in fact killed, as it refers to Admiral Thrawn as the single grand admiral who remained at large.

As Genghis12 has mentioned, His Imperial Majesty The Emperor enjoyed the ability to create more grand admirals after the debacle at Endor, but evidence suggests that he did not, in fact, do so. The Dark Empire Sourcebook, which is a valuable resource in discussing the nature of the return of His Imperial Majesty The Emperor, clearly refers to Admiral Thrawn as both "the last of the Emperor's Warlords" and "the last surviving Grand Admiral," indicating that on his death, the rank was allowed to lapse.

 

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Genghis12  18840 posts
Title: Manager Emeritus
 Registered: Nov '99
8181_Hoojib
Date Posted: 4/7/02 9:04pm Subject: RE: Missing Grand Admiral?
Counterpoint, The Dark Empire Sourcebook does not speak for the later sources. The Dark Empire Sourcebook only covers up through Dark Empire, and not its two sequels - Dark Empire II and/or Empire's End.

Therefore, while one can agree that according to the Dark Empire Sourcebook Thrawn was the last Grand Admiral as of Dark Empire, one cannot reasonably assume he was the last Grand Admiral ever based on that information. Palpatine did have time to mint new Grand Admirals before his ultimate demise.

It would be an equal assumption to make that he chose not to versus he chose to do so, since no definitive answer exists.

 

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