Jedi Council Forums - FanFilm Surround Sound

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Author	Topic: FanFilm Surround Sound
SkywalkerG Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 12/29/02 9:47pm Subject: FanFilm Surround Sound
	Hey there everyone. I had a quick question about the audio of fanfilms. Does any one know of any fanfilm that makes use of surround sound? I just got a new soundcard and speakers for christmas and I'd love to hear a fanfilm in its glory. Thanks People. -----signature----- "Lifes full of Surprises, Don't Wet Your Pants!"
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Macho Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 12/29/02 9:58pm Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound
	try seeds of darkness
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keithabbott Registered: Aug '98	Date Posted: 12/30/02 8:07am Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound - Date Edited: 12/30/02 8:07am (1 edits total) Edited By: keithabbott
	Are you saying "try" as in..."it might be" in surround sound...or do you mean, "it is" in surround sound AC3 encoded maybe? Keith -----signature----- Producer, Rise of Nobility: http://www.starwarsfanworks.com/riseofnobility.html Sound Engineer: Eclipse SE, Return of Pink Five volume 2 Personal: http://www.myspace.com/keithabbott TK1210, Garrison Tyranus
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borjis fett Registered: Sep '99	Date Posted: 12/30/02 6:32pm Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound
	Thats one way to do it. to take your raw pcm .wav files and encode them with the now defunct sonic foundry Dolby soft encoder. The other way is to use the plugin Daft used in seeds of darkness. It's a premiere plugin i believe.
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Macho Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 12/30/02 6:35pm Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound
	daft didn't have anything to do with seeds of darkness
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borjis fett Registered: Sep '99	Date Posted: 12/30/02 6:44pm Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound
	oops My bad. Dark Skies is what i meant
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keithabbott Registered: Aug '98	Date Posted: 12/30/02 7:09pm Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound
	Does that mean Seeds has is AC3 encoded then? I assume it is. Keith -----signature----- Producer, Rise of Nobility: http://www.starwarsfanworks.com/riseofnobility.html Sound Engineer: Eclipse SE, Return of Pink Five volume 2 Personal: http://www.myspace.com/keithabbott TK1210, Garrison Tyranus
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SkywalkerG Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 12/30/02 9:33pm Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound - Date Edited: 12/30/02 9:34pm (1 edits total) Edited By: SkywalkerG
	I dont know the technical stuff about different sound formats on the computer. I'd like to see a movie in surround sound or one that i can make emulate or whatever surround pretty good. i dont have any idea. I'm really lost on this topic after all. All i know is i got a SB Audiology 2 Card and I would like to test out its potential. Is AC3 mean surround sound? -----signature----- "Lifes full of Surprises, Don't Wet Your Pants!"
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MoffJake Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 12/30/02 9:52pm Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound - Date Edited: 12/30/02 10:18pm (1 edits total) Edited By: MoffJake
	AC3 is essentially a format that compressed audio can be stored in (similar to MP3, and at similar bit rates). AC3 can and often does have surround sound since it has multiple channels (1, 2, 4, 5.1, 6, etc). But an AC3 track does not necesarily mean it has surround sound. And some surround sound mixes sound more "surroundy" than others. If memory serves, Seeds of Darkness had it's audio stored as a stereo MP3 file. But, like the "surround sound" from broadcast tv, the stereo audio (when properly decoded) can be presented in a semi-surround mix. Someone else can explain how 2 channel surround sound works, but I was under the impression that the surround decoder basically picks up some special frequencies in the audio and directs only those frequencies to the rear channels. You could probably find out more about this at How Stuff Works.com Anyways I think that Seeds of Darkness would be a nice way to try out your new setup. But if you really want to test your sound card, pop a DVD in, perhaps Attack of the Clones, and skip to the asteroid field chase..... [TWANGG!!!!] -----signature----- I am not RC Collins, but I wish I were.
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keithabbott Registered: Aug '98	Date Posted: 12/31/02 6:49am Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound - Date Edited: 12/31/02 7:03am (3 edits total) Edited By: keithabbott
	To my knowledge the mp3 format does not allow for anything other than left and right (PCM stream) channels. If your stereo system has Dolby Digital, the only surround sound you'll get from a non AC3 encoded file is by using the Pro Logic feature which just simulates surround sound out of the PCM stream. It's not the same. It's better than just two channels, but definitely not the same. I can't comment on DTS. I'm not exactly sure what encoding structure they use. And I'm not exactly sure if sound cards with 5.1 speakers can play PCM streams on all of the speakers or just two. Pro Logic is what stereo receivers use to simulate surround sound. I run my computer audio directly to my stereo..I don't have separate speakers for my computer. I'd assume whatever software that came with your audio card will enable simulated surround sound. That sounds like the feature you want. To my knowledge, most fan films are not surround sound capable without the help of a simulation. So is Dark Skies encoded with AC3??? I'd love to hear at least one fan film that uses Dolby Digital encoding. That would be awesome. Anyhow, if I've made any incorrect assumptions, please let me know. I'm still learning about the larger world of surround sound myself. Keith -----signature----- Producer, Rise of Nobility: http://www.starwarsfanworks.com/riseofnobility.html Sound Engineer: Eclipse SE, Return of Pink Five volume 2 Personal: http://www.myspace.com/keithabbott TK1210, Garrison Tyranus
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glennth Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 12/31/02 7:33am Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound
	Pro Logic feature which just simulates surround sound out of the PCM stream. It's not the same. It's better than just two channels, but definitely not the same. Actually, that's not correct. Pro Logic is the general name of the processor inside surround receivers, that seperate the center and surround channels from the stereo stream. It doesn't simulate at all. Regular surround sound is just matrix inversed to fit into a stereo soundtrack. The sounds that are identical in both speakers are sent to the center channel, and the sound that are inversed identical (one sound in the right, the 'flipped' sound in the left) are sent to the rear channels. This is, again, no simulation. I've tried this on my own soundcard and surround receiver, and it works perfectly. It will also be used as much as possible, without overdoing it, on my upcoming FanFilm. This is kinda hard to explain, but I hope it made sense. -----signature----- Qui-Gon Glenn "Anything one man can imagine, other men can make real" - Jules Verne Jedi Refugee: http://jedirefugee.whitestone.no
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Jedi_Icicle Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 12/31/02 8:31am Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound
	Hello, Seeds Of Darkness was mixed in Dolby Pro-logic surround sound. It did not use AC3 technology (Dolby Digital). At the time we could not afford mixing SOD in Dolby Digital. Our next feature will be in 5.1 Dolby Digital though... Also, if I recall properly we did NOT use MP3 as our audio format for web compression.. The DVD version of SOD has an AC3 track but it's only Dolby Digital 2 channels (simulated surround) We would have had to remix everything to get true 5.1 effects. peace! M -----signature----- Star Wars: Seeds Of Darkness Icicle Studios http://www.iciclestudios.com
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t-toe Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 12/31/02 9:33am Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound
	So, I'm wondering what programs let you mix in Dolby Pro-Logic. Or do you just use glennth's technique? I have watched many DIVX files and listened through my home receiver and noticed the Pro Logic at work. It truly is a remarkable format for being so old. All that through a standard stereo audio feed. --t.toe P.S. glennth, I understand how to get audio in the center channel and the left and right channels, but what do you mean by "the sound that are inversed identical (one sound in the right, the 'flipped' sound in the left)". how do you mean 'inversed'? like, backwards? -----signature----- i've started two seperate fanfilms; and finished neither of them.
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Mushiman Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 12/31/02 11:37am Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound
	Try mixing your track(s) in Protools, but it'll cost ya! I'm not sure but i think you can get a plugin for Protools free & encode to AC3 5.1 Mushi -----signature----- Dangerous Derk Productions http://www.dangerousderk.com/ Star Wars : Castaway http://www.dangerousderk.com/castaway.html
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glennth Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 12/31/02 1:07pm Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound - Date Edited: 12/31/02 1:09pm (1 edits total) Edited By: glennth
	I understand how to get audio in the center channel and the left and right channels, but what do you mean by "the sound that are inversed identical (one sound in the right, the 'flipped' sound in the left)". how do you mean 'inversed'? like, backwards? I use a program called SoundForge, but it is possible in other programs too. I also make 4 versions of one sound. Left, Right, Center and Rear, and I mix them together with the film in Premiere later. So your question would be to create the Rear version of the sound, and is also what I'll cover: You already have your sound, but you have to mix it to one channel... or mono. You then create another version of this mono sound, but you flip it (inverse it, mirror it, or whatever the correct term is), so that the sound wave pictured in your soundproggy is horizontally flipped. All peaks pointing up, now points down, and vica versa. After this, you create a new, stereo, sound, where you put the original mono sample in the left channel, and the flipped in the right channel (or the opposite... doesn't really matter), so that the samples play at the same time. So your stereo sound now consists of two channels of the same mono sample, but one of them is flipped. If you play this through your surround receiver, the sound will come from the rear speakers. This is the procedure I found while experimenting. And that is exactly the keyword here... experiment. It might happen I'll make a tutorial one day, but my to-do-list is pretty long these days EDIT: I think the flipping, mirroring, inversing, is called Phase Shift. It is not the same as playing the sample backwards. It sounds exactly the same, only the soundwaves are mirrored. I'm having a hard time explaining this, so maybe I should write this tutorial I'm speaking of, with figures and all, so that y'all can understand it -----signature----- Qui-Gon Glenn "Anything one man can imagine, other men can make real" - Jules Verne Jedi Refugee: http://jedirefugee.whitestone.no
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pahket Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 12/31/02 6:07pm Subject: RE: FanFilm Surround Sound
	SWEET! That's the coolest thing I've ever heard! Thanks, man! -----signature----- Star Wars and Responsibility: "It's not my fault!" - C-3PO "It's not my fault!" - Lando Calrissian "It's not my fault!" - Han Solo "Hey Slim, are you wearin' my underwear? 'Cause I'm wearin' yours, and they ain't doin' the trick!"
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