Question of the Week #5: After Seeing Ep. II, What Did You Think?

Hey guys and gals! The question of the week has returned!

This week's question is:

After seeing Episode II, what did you think? How does this installment
rank in the saga overall?

EDIT: There will be spoilers in this thread for those who have not seen the movie.

Thanks to Jace Darkrider for providing this week's question.

 

I am writing this as if everyone has seen it(i.e. there are SPOILERS in it). First the bad then the good.

The Bad -
I thought it was good but not great. It seemed like the production was rushed to get it done. The movie seemed rushed to go to a big, climatic ending but didn't. The script wasn't very good for a Star Wars movie and some of the lines were non-emotional when they needed to be emotional. The end light saber scene was too short. Obiwan and Anikan were beaten very quickly...too quickly. Sure Dooku is good but the fight didn't look as fast paced or as hard as when Obiwan fought Darth Maul(except for yoda ).

The Good -
Clone troopers looked coooooool (I don't think there was a non-CGI one in the movie tho, even the one in the desert looked like CGI). Jango vs. Obiwan fight scenes were cool. Zam Wesell scene was also good. The arena scene was really good. Yoda ownz The Yoda vs. Dooku fight was the best part of the movie!!!

In conclusion, I was disappointed. I thought it would be tons better than TPM(it was better in some areas but not as good in others). I know I seem overlly critical, but it is a Star Wars film, and, therefore, has a right to be judged to the other Star Wars films. (also, I went into it expecting it to be alot better). Once again, I liked the movie overall, but compared to Star Wars films, it isn't very high on my list(there are only 5 so that isn't a very big list...hehe).

 

I liked this a heck of a lot better than TPM... I thought that the political intrigue was handled a lot better -- in fact, I wouldn't have minded seeing more of it. Jango and Boba Fett were fantastic -- "Yeah! Get him, dad!". I think I like Count Dooku's lightsaber style better than any other I've seen so far.. It definitely evoked memories of Basil Rathbone in The Mark of Zorro or the Adventures of Robin Hood... what an elegant villian... and I can't wait to see more of him. The romance seemed rushed, but I found that that was the only real leap of faith that I needed to take to enjoy the movie... And all in all, it was sweet. Anakin was completely beliveable as as arrogant, obsessive emotional person filled with anger he can't control and doesn't understand, and convinced of his own infallibility... in short, an average 19 year old kid. Palpatine was delightfully sinister. What can I say? I loved it -- I've seen it seven times to date, and that says something...

-- Technoviper

 

Here is my less-than-eloquent review.

The love story seemed very rushed to me, and I really saw no reason why Padme would fall in love with Anakin, especially within the space of a few weeks. He seemed much like a stalker at the beginning of the movie. However, the scene that takes place by the fireplace on Naboo seems quite heartfelt, despite the slight cheese factor. When Anakin says "I can't breathe," I believe him. (Although, as red_rose pointed out at our second viewing, Padme is probably the one who couldn't breathe, thanks to being corseted quite tightly into that black dress. )

Like Technoviper said, the love story is the only thing that slightly disappointed me. Everything else was great! Sure, the CG was a little rough in places, but that is a minor gripe.

The segments involving Obi-Wan's visit to Kamino were top notch. Kamino itself was very cool and otherworldly, and the Kaminoans are possibly one of the coolest alien races in the SW movies. The Obi-Wan vs. Jango battle was fun to watch. Not much finesse was involved...it turned into a good, old fashioned, hand-to hand brawl.

I have said this in other AOTC discussion threads, but I will say it again here. The seismic charges in the Geonosian asteroid belt were some of the coolest visual and sound effects in the entire movie. You see the seismic charge explode, and then there is this split second of total and complete silence before you hear the explosion and see the cool bluish shockwave. The explosion itself is the coolest...sound effect...ever.

The arena battle is all I could have hoped for. Seeing all those Jedi in action fulfilled a wish that I have had for years.

I do wish that the Obi-Wan vs. Dooku and the Anakin vs. Dooku battles had lasted a bit longer. (Y'all know how I love lightsaber duels. ) The Yoda Vs. Dooku duel was simply awesome.

So, in summary, while the love story was a bit rushed, the rest of the movie made up for it. It was loads of fun and I'll probably see it 10 times more before it is released on DVD.

 

I, too, have to agree with the others in this post. It was STAR WARS, but the storyline needs some emotion. I thought the acting was a little flat. Anakin should have cried at losing his mother, then his rage could be understood. I also felt that the political intrique could have been fleshed out some more. My only wish is that the extra scenes that George filmed during the making of AOTC and the ones he plans on filming during Episode 3 that will be incorporated into the special edition DVD of the original trilogy will help flesh out some of what we saw. I also felt that AOTC was better than TPM, but TPM lightsaber fight was better than in AOTC. More would have definitely been better. QUESTION: If the Geonosians designed the Deathstar, has anyone heard if the plan is to still use the storyline of Wookie slaves to be used in the construction?**

 

Two quick points: While the love story was rushed, in retrospect, I don't think it's a love story per se. I think it's an obsession story, along the lines of Vertigo or something... Let's look at it this way. Anakain has been obsessing about Padme for ten years. Who else has there been for him? He probably doesn't have a lot of time for dating between Jedi training and studies... Padme, on the other hand, has devoted her entire life to public service from the time that she was what, eight? Nine? She's probably been pretty lonely, but she's had her work, so... It hasn't mattered that there hasn't been any place for a personal life... until she gets thrown into close quarters with the handsome young Jedi Padawan who thinks that the sun and moon rise and set on her whim... So sparks fly... after all, she was trying to keep it cool... So I think Anakin's obsession wins out. He tends to do that, about his mother, about his abilities as a Jedi, about the way that his father figure, Obi-Wan, views him... Maybe the fact that Anakin is so completely taken with Padme, for right or wrong reasons, is the source of his appeal. Then again, I could be wrong. But I don't think it would be out of character for a boy Anakin's age... or for a woman who has lived so completely for others and taken nothing for herself from such a young age....

Okay. My other point is this: I think it would have been out of character for Anakin to cry first... if he had, he probably wouldn't have slaughtered all those Tuskens. Anakin reacts before he thinks... that's the central flaw of his character. Killing all those people didn't come from grief -- it came straight from anger. he didn't have time to grieve before he went out there. Which is exactly the sort of thing that will turn him to the dark side.

 

As great as the clones, cloners, lightsabers, and Yoda were I focused on another aspect of the movie that alot of people I've spoken to seem to have missed. The power of Sideous. Everything that has happened has done so with his knowledge and under his control. He has clouded and enfluenced the Jedi Council! He has created two armies in order to stage a war that will allow him to take power. When it is done, he will have his troops spread throughout the galaxy.

It fasinated me. Imagine one person having the power to control the senate and the Jedi. Yoda himself was under Sideous' control to an extent. Only at the end of the movie does Yoda finally understand what has happened. Only then is the cloud of the darkside lifted.

I really liked it. It brings full circle Darth Vader's arguement to Luke, "You don't know the power of the Darkside.", a line I always took as more of a defensive statement on Vader's part than a plea to have Luke join him. Now, having seen the power Sideous has over the galaxy, I begin to truely understand why Vader thinks he could never turn away from the Darkside.

I can't wait till the next one.

 

My favorite part would be on Kamino. Not only was the whole place cool but the Obiwan vs Jango Fett fight scene was awesome! hand-to-hand, rockets, blasters, whipcord, space battle, it had it all!!!

After that the arena was really cool. Although the Jango vs. Mace Windu part was short, it was great(poor Jango, just couldn't jump fast enough for that lightsaber). His head getting cut off reminded me alot of the Lord of the Rings...

Jedireject - I thought the "Darth Sideous is controlling everything" was really cool too. I thought is was intersting that the Jedi and Yoda himself were working with the Sith and didn't know(It took awhile to explain how this was so to my mom ).

Technoviper - I thought Haden did a good job as Anakin. He had an evil look in his eyes. My gosh, how have you seen it 7 times?!

 

Well, I'm about $50.00 lighter on the hip pocket...

Everybody I knew wanted to see it, at different times... so Once Wednesday night, once Thursday and twice on Friday night, once Saturday, and twice on Sunday. That ought to hold me until Thursday or so

 

i don't know about comparing this movie to the others
like a wise wook said it depends on the mood i'm in to which movie
i want to see and after seeing aotc 30 more times it will fall in this catagory
also right now it's new and is my favorite

first my favorite sceen was yoda vs dooku
#2 obi wan vs jango both platform and astroids belt sceen
#3 arena sceen
#4 the chase through corescant

the tuskin raider sceen could have been longer like the book.

but that is just my opinion i could be wrong

out: noom

 

Well, I guess I should weigh in too.

I LOVED IT. It was everything I had been waiting for. Episode I was great, but this blew the wookie fur off of it.

Yeah, it's flawed, but what film isn't? The love story seemed hokey, but what romance between two inexperienced lover's isn't? I remember saying corny lines to my first love when I was younger. "I'm dying inside without you..." Yeah, I said stuff like that.

The effects were great as always. Yoda is THE MAN. Jango was way cool and Boba...you can just see where he is heading off to.

Anakin was great. Innocent and totally not in control with his feelings. What a setup to fall into Palpy's hand and the darkside. Obi-Wan was cool and at the same time a jerk. You can just see where his training of Anakin failed. Too critical in my opinion. Some differ with me, but I think he is just too critical.

And ah yes...Palpatine. God, does he have everyone fooled or what? And Dooku. An elegant bad ass to be sure. Just curious now to figure out who Jedi Master Sifo Dyas is? I thought it was Sideous, but Obi-Wan remembers a Master Sifo Dyas and so does Mace and Yoda.

So much to look forward to in Episode III!! I can't wait.

 

I don't know. I really think the love story came out fine. Seriously. What more do you want? In ESB there is maybe, MAYBE eight or ten minutes of love story total at all. Even less in Jedi. Yet nobody sees the Han/Leia Love scenes as flawed. And as for this movie where it was at least 20 minutes worth of love story footage, everyone said it was dull and not enough. I'm not sure what people mean by that. Half the people on this board would kill to have a romance like that, and for some reason the other half all think they were going to see "When Anakin met Padme".

I thought that the story was great, it was EXTREMELY fun and the acting was great. The first hour moves a little slow, but all of it seemed neccessary to me. I thought that the clones were fantastic. My wife even loved it and I had to DRAG her in. (She's a trekkie).

It really did feel like Star Wars. I felt like lucas was back. But, maybe my opinion isn't the best; I loved TPM. Ether way, I loved it.

 

About the love stories in ESB & AOTC: Han & Leia had known each other for a while by the time of ESB, and there had always been sparks flying between them. It wasn't that hard for me to believe that they suddenly realized that they loved one another. Anakin and Padme hadn't seen each other in ten years, and while I understand Anakin's obsession with Padme, I didn't quite get why Padme would fall in love with Anakin. She could not have seem less interested in him romantically at the beginning if the movie.

That being said, upon the second viewing of AOTC, it made a bit more sense and, as Technoviper pointed out, Anakin seems to have a tendency to get his way, and Padme could have very well been swayed by Anakin's single-minded pursuit of her.

Despite what I consider to be slight flaws in the love story, I really do love AOTC. It had everything I could ask for in a Star Wars movie.

 

Great point there, Brightstar... I think that Lucas might have shot himself in the foot a little by setting the first and second chapters so far apart... 10 years is a long time, and I feel that we had to get to know everybody all over again. Whereas, in Empire, we already know everybody, so all we have to do is buckle up and go. Takes a lot of pressure off the movie when you don't have to explain where everything is and what everybody's doing...

 

By the way, I loved the Jango - Boba stuff soooo much... It would make a great sitcom... kind of like "The Courtship of Eddie's Father" (am I showing my age here?)... or maybe "My Two Dads", except it would be "My 200,000 Dads", or maybe they count as brothers, technically, so it would be some super-bizarre version of "My Three (Million) Sons". The possibilities are there. Lucas should look into it.

 

Hey Guys! I'm back. Didjya miss me?!

I come in solidly on the "loved it" side. Sure, there were some moments that made me cringe a little. (I've started calling those the, "What was George thinking?" moments.) Most of that was dialogue issues. But every one of his films has those.

I loved seeing the flaws in everyone. Plenty of wonderful moments and shots for us Obi-Wan fans. He's charming and intelligent (not to mention good-looking). Yet he can't teach worth beans, since he doesn't see his padawan is pushing against him for a reason. Doesn't acknowledge that his padawan's dreams about his mother might signal something bigger. (But since he wasn't raised by his mother, it might not be something he can understand.)

Yoda? Talk about arrogance clouding one's judgement! Yet, he's also the kindly teacher, mentor and kick-*** Jedi Master.

Anakin? I found that watching it from the perspective that he's basically started falling from the beginning of this film really gives a different light to his performance. He wants to possess Padme. This is not a good place for a Jedi to be.

Padme? Let's talk about how an intelligent, resourceful, headstrong woman could fail to see that this kid's trouble! She overlooked a lot to allow herself the love she craved.

And I loved the maneuvering by Palpy. It was fun to watch and SO over-the-top!

Now...does anyone else buy into the theory that Mace is either a knowing or unknowing traitor in all of this?

 

Welcome back RosieWook. I totally buy in that Mace has a deeper involvement in this. I thought about that from the first movie as well. Something's a little fishy there. I also even suspected Sio Bibble from Naboo as having some ulterior motivations as well. It's interesting, because Lucas dropped 2 big bombs in TESB and ROTJ - Vader was Luke's father and Leia was Luke's sister. Yet neither TPM or AOTC has that type of shocking revelation yet. Yes, we know how the story unfolds for the most part, but what shocking secrets still remain that haven't been touched on yet??

 

Tune in tomorrow for...
AS THE GALAXY TURNS!

Sorry, I was just rereading my post and thinking it sounds amazingly like one of those soap opera summaries.

Now, Sio Bibble is one I haven't suspected. I'll have to rewatch to see what I catch there.

To me, there were some interesting things that occurred that aren't really "big bombs," but were so telling as to be pretty important to the saga.

The Jedi are so arrogant as to be unable to see something is threatening them. And it's not just the Dark Side clouding things. Jocasta Nu (what a hoot she is!) refuses to acknowledge that their archives might be flawed. Obi-Wan is so sure their archives couldn't be wrong that he has to go to Yoda and then hear it from the mind of a child that the data has been tampered with. A child not old enough to have preconceptions about how the galaxy should work.

And then there is the look on Anakin's face when he stops crying over his mother and lets the Dark Side flow to take out the Tuskens. That was the moment. That's where he went over the edge.

I'm not sure if we'll ever really have any big bombs on par with "Luke I'm your father." I think just knowing how this ends will preclude that.

Who knows? Maybe there's still something in there.

 

I think AOTC is one of those movies that get better with each viewing. As I said, after I saw it a second time, I loved it even more.

Something else that has been talked about here that I find very interesting, and Yoda even mentioned it himself, is the apparent arrogance of the Jedi. I have had conversations with other folks about this. The Jedi seem to have this attitude that they know all, see all, and can handle anything and everything. This arrogance has allowed them to be fooled by Sidious and has allowed the Dark Side to cloud everything. It is too bad that by the time Yoda admits this, it is too late to stop the events that have been put into motion by Sidious.

I'm really interested in seeing Yoda and Obi-Wan's reactions when they finally find out that they have been duped. I hope we'll see that in Episode III.

 

I was watching ANH and was thinking about that very thing.

When Obi-Wan tells Luke that he can't go with him (and we all know he's going after Vader), just having seen this movie makes me feel how important that was.

Just think about someone who messes up your life so much that you end up living for decades in the desert all alone. It's gotta feel like someone physically reached in and pulled out your heart. Sir Alec put in this air of satisfaction that he was finally putting an end to it all.

You can see Bail Organa starting to feel it in his last scene. But for Yoda and Obi-Wan, I suspect it's going to be a pretty shocking moment. They just...don't...get it!

 

Something Harry Knowles points out in his filal edit of the AOTC review on Ain't It Cool is that thw whole thing about the relationship between Padme and Anakin seeming strange and foreign is,

"These are not Woody Allen and Diane Keaton? They are not mature people having loved and failed at it and tried again and again and again. Their hearts have never been broken. They haven?t been to whorehouses or strip clubs. These are two virgins pussyfooting about a love they?ve never experienced. You can?t judge it by what you would say, unless you happen to be a pussyfooting virgin or really and honestly can remember what the pussyfooting virgin in you once said and sounded like."

When I read this, it instantly made sense why I felt like an outsider looking in on the relationship. I WAS. If you're neither Anakin nor Padme, then that whole thing is Greek to you. That being the case, I hope that each and every one of you has your own version of that relationship you can look back upon and smile about.