Spielberg and AOTC

None of AOTC sucked, apart from the few bits that did.



Classic Duckman.

 

Anyone notice an eerie similarity between the car factory scene in Minority Report and the droid factory scene in AOTC?

 

yas spellburg is rip-off!

 

Seems that there are two distict camps forming: those who think AOTC is a masterpiece and those who are slightly to very disappointed.

Quite frankly I find that the bickering between the two camps is ridiculous, particularly from the "AOTC is the best film ever" camp.

First to address the topic of this thread, NO Spielberg should never be let anywhere near Star Wars. He doesn't do that kind of film, nor should he, since his talents should be put to better use. Star Wars is the best film saga of all time (I'm not including LOTR because it is first and foremost a book, which benefits from the best film adaptation of all time), but I'd rather Spielberg concentrated on giving us a wide variety of genres, consistently improving himself, rather than giving us pop corn entertainment under the supervision of Lucas.

Star Wars = the best cinematic event entertainment you can get

Spielberg = ART

Starwars is like going to a theme park, whilst a Spielberg film is like going to a high class restaurant and ordering the finest wines and dishes available.

This brings me to my assessment of AOTC when compared to Minortiy Report. More than any other Star Wars film, AOTC reinforces the statement I just made: its just like a theme park.

There is no way in hell that AOTC will ever be considered to be a masterpiece or even a remotely great film. First because the Starwars films cannot be compared to great films, since they are in a league of entertainment of their own. Secondly because I'm not sure AOTC is even a grat Starwars film.

AOTC is by far the hardest Star Wars film to review. In the last month, I've gone from rating it as the second best Starwars film to the least.

Lets put it this way: Whats good in AOTC is great, whats bad is absolutely awful.

What Lucas seems to have done is go through a check list of a fanboy's wetdreams, putting it all in the script, without actually checking to see if those ingredients made a good film. Thus we end up with a film with possibly the best set pieces of any Star Wars film, but mired by a dreadful script and virtually no direction of anything non-special effects related.

How can anybody here posssibly argue that Lucas is a better director than Spielberg?? if you take away the special effects of AOTC, which are all done in post production, you are left with some of the worst performances I've ever witnessed. the fact that 95% of the cast are pretty good actors should surely indicate just how bad Lucas' script and direction was. How can you possibly argue otherwise??

What Lucas has is some great ideas. The Star Wars Universe is, along with Tolkien's middle Earth, the best designed fantasy location ever created, with beleivable worlds and characters and a great plot featuring the tragic rise, fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. What Lucas doesn't have is the skill to pull this off.

I was a fervent defender of TPM between 1999 and 2001, justifying its occasional mistakes because of its nature as the first installment. I knew it had to set everything up and I thought it did a great job. AOTC, however, should have been much better: the plot was perfect, ILM had improved the effects of TPM and a great cast had been assembled. The only thing which remained to make AOTC the best Star Wars film yet was a good script and a good director.

Lucas failed miserably, with the exception of the speical effects.

Spielberg, for me, has yet to fail in any comparable way.

 

How can anybody here posssibly argue that Lucas is a better director than Spielberg?? if you take away the special effects of AOTC, which are all done in post production, you are left with some of the worst performances I've ever witnessed. the fact that 95% of the cast are pretty good actors should surely indicate just how bad Lucas' script and direction was. How can you possibly argue otherwise??

Do you know the difference between a fact and an opinion?

And if you think Spielberg is so damn wonderful and Lucas can do nothing but make special effects, WHY ARE YOU HERE? Why aren't you at a Spielberg board, worshipping him?

 

If you actually read my post which was actually worshipping Starwars as the best fantasy series of all time you'd know why I'm here.

 

Another thing: have you ever actually listened to the way Spielberg talks about his films in interviews? the way he acts on sets. When he speaks, you can tell he truly loves film and is hugely knowledgeable about all areas of filmmaking. Lucas on the other hand only ever talks about the effect process, the story and who he cast. Never have I seen Lucas discuss the intricacies of cinematography, for example.

Lucas has even admitted himself that he doesn't enjoy the process of directing on set. He does all his directing in the editing room, which is why performances are so awful. You can clearly see that in the documentary on the TPM DVD where Ben Burtt clearly somewhat disagrees with Lucas' urge to "cyber direct" since it makes the whole editing process that much more comlicated. In fact, its clear form that documentary tht a lot of the crew disagree with some of Lucas' choices, but are afraid to say so. Spielberg, however, always seems to get total dedication from his team.

 

"Why aren't you at a Spielberg board, worshipping him? "

Because the topic HERE is 'Spielberg and AOTC' maybe?


"WHY ARE YOU HERE?"

This is Shelley's most consistent argument. How many times has Shelley said, 'If you're not a STAR WARS fan, why don't you go somewhere else?', when, quite often, all a person ever did was take a critical examination of Lucas and his work. The redundancy of Shelley's thought process is getting a little wearisome.

I actually thought Sidious did a nicely written piece about what his opinon was. I don't agree with it 100%, especially the part about how Lucas aced the effects and nothing else, but that's his opinion and I have mine. I'm not telling him to get out.

 

Spielberg, Schmielberg.

 

As Bresson said, this is just my opinion. How can you have a thread about Spielberg and AOTC if no one is allowed to say that Spielberg is a better director?

Fact is, I'm pretty angry with some of the things Lucas did in AOTC. Case in point: the death of Shmi. The one scene I've waited for the most, what should have been the most chilling moment of the saga is just a mess, a supremely frustrated mess, because its concept is just incredibly cool, but its execution is pitiful.

Its just too short, and too flat. For the start of Anakin's fall, the emotional tension of the scene should have been phenomenal, instead we have a scene which feels like Lucas just wanted over and done with. The fact that audiences actually laughed during that scene, possibly the single most important scen in the saga, should be a pretty good indication that he did a poor job.

 

"Spielberg has always been known to make great films. His recent sucess with Minority Report is the perfect example of this. "

HAHAHHA Success wit minority report. *snort* Yeah right

 

Final comparison:

The mark of a truly great director is his capacity to vary, his abiliy to make great films in different genres. NO ONE, and I mean no one rivals Spielberg in that department. 20 films ranging from Sci-fi to horror to romance, to historical drama to crime thriller to comedy. The only thing he hasn't done is a musical.

Nevertheless, Lucas is still responsible for producing and conceiving some of the most entertaining films ever, particularly during the 80s, experimenting on TV in the 90s with Young Indy, but most importantly, pushing technology into the future.

Spielberg is a master director.

Lucas is a master story teller, businessman and technologist.

 

How can anybody here posssibly argue that Lucas is a better director than Spielberg?? if you take away the special effects of AOTC, which are all done in post production, you are left with some of the worst performances I've ever witnessed. the fact that 95% of the cast are pretty good actors should surely indicate just how bad Lucas' script and direction was. How can you possibly argue otherwise??

Um...because we don't agree?

I get tired of people telling me, "How can you possibly argue otherwise?" when they state their opinion.

 

The mark of a truly great director is his capacity to vary, his abiliy to make great films in different genres. NO ONE, and I mean no one rivals Spielberg in that department. 20 films ranging from Sci-fi to horror to romance, to historical drama to crime thriller to comedy. The only thing he hasn't done is a musical.

And some of those films were far from great.

IMO, here are Spielberg's great films:

Jaws
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Schindler's List

The rest range from pretty good to godawful.

 

Its just too short, and too flat. For the start of Anakin's fall, the emotional tension of the scene should have been phenomenal, instead we have a scene which feels like Lucas just wanted over and done with. The fact that audiences actually laughed during that scene, possibly the single most important scen in the saga, should be a pretty good indication that he did a poor job.

The fact that other audiences cried should be a pretty good indication that he didn't.

 

Lucas has even admitted himself that he doesn't enjoy the process of directing on set. He does all his directing in the editing room, which is why performances are so awful.

I don't think performances are awful. Please quit stating your opinions like facts.

You can clearly see that in the documentary on the TPM DVD where Ben Burtt clearly somewhat disagrees with Lucas' urge to "cyber direct" since it makes the whole editing process that much more comlicated. In fact, its clear form that documentary tht a lot of the crew disagree with some of Lucas' choices, but are afraid to say so.

Oh really? Like when? I must have seen a different documentary, or perhaps I didn't watch it through basher-colored glasses.

 

Just a suggestion, maybe Spielberg can act as an assistant director with his job primarily being giving guidance to the actors on how to deliver the lines effectively. The main criticism from people who don't like the PT is acting.

 

This is Shelley's most consistent argument. How many times has Shelley said, 'If you're not a STAR WARS fan, why don't you go somewhere else?', when, quite often, all a person ever did was take a critical examination of Lucas and his work. The redundancy of Shelley's thought process is getting a little wearisome.

Not as wearisome as people who go on and on about how much better other movies/directors are and who state their opinions as fact and say things like, "How can you possibly argue otherwise?"

Newsflash: not everyone agrees with you.

I think Spielberg is easily the most overrated director out there, with Peter Jackson as a close second. I applaud the fact that J.K. Rowling didn't want him to direct "Harry Potter" instead of being all starstruck and handing him a project he would have bollixed up simply because he was (trumpet sound) Spielberg.

 

"And if you think Spielberg is so damn wonderful and Lucas can do nothing but make special effects, WHY ARE YOU HERE? Why aren't you at a Spielberg board, worshipping him? "

i wasnt aware this board was for worshipping Lucas.

but thanks for that peek into your mind so all can see how you view this board, and how to better understand your arguments.

welcome to the church of Lucas.

 

i wasnt aware this board was for worshipping Lucas.

It isn't. Apparently it's for worshipping Peter Jackson, Steven Spielberg, and the Waschowski brothers.

I thought this board was for discussing SW, not going on and on about how much better other movies were. Silly, silly me.

 

the topic at hand is wether or not Spielberg would do a better job of handling the directing tasks of AOTC than Lucas.

of course you are going to have people tell you why they think he is a better or worse director.

i dont see you complaining about people who say he is a worse director than Lucas, yet they are also talking about Spielberg in their comments.

so lets see if i understand correctly. according to you, people are only allowed to heap praise on Lucas, and never compare him unfavorably to other directors, or to express why they think other directors are better.

why are you on a DISCUSSION board when you dont want to hear discussion?

silly you, indeed.

and for the record, i don't think Spielberg would have directed AOTC considering the content and quality of the script as is.

 

so lets see if i understand correctly. according to you, people are only allowed to heap praise on Lucas, and never compare him unfavorably to other directors, or to express why they think other directors are better.

If you say so. You'll think that anyway.

and for the record, i don't think Spielberg would have directed AOTC considering the content and quality of the script as is.

Yep. It was too good for him. He's more fit to direct crap like "Jurassic Park," in which a grandfather worries more about his melting ice cream than his grandchildren.

why are you on a DISCUSSION board when you dont want to hear discussion?

Why am I on a SW discussion board? Because I want to hear discussion about SW. Not about LOTR, Minority Report, Matrix, etc. And not to be told, "How can you possibly argue otherwise?" by someone who hated AOTC.

 

>>>Starwars is like going to a theme park, whilst a Spielberg film is like going to a high class restaurant and ordering the finest wines and dishes available.<<<

Actually, I liken a Spielberg film to eating at Red Lobster. Hardly a high class restaurant, but it's an acceptable substitute if you are too poor to know better. He's artistic, but in the most mainstream way. His movies don't "challenge"...they politely suggest.

Case in point, A.I. It was actually a really entertaining movie, but I can't help but feel it's just a dumbed-down Kubrick flick. Like he's holding everyones' hand through the movie. "Ok, you don't like Kubrick's dark fairytale? Here, have a scene with Chris Rock yelling in his 'Little Penny' voice! And give me a few more minutes, and you'll hear some hilarious comedy from everyone's favorite Yeti, Robin Williams!"

"What...Kubrick's direction is too emotionally sterile for your liking? Hold on, let me give you some more shots of a little boy crying."

I guess I'm being harsh. I actually do like Spielberg's movies. The man knows how to direct an action sequence, I can tell you that for sure. But I seriously disagree that his work is high art.

>>>When he speaks, you can tell he truly loves film and is hugely knowledgeable about all areas of filmmaking. Lucas on the other hand only ever talks about the effect process, the story and who he cast. Never have I seen Lucas discuss the intricacies of cinematography, for example<<<

I've never heard Spielberg talk about God. Gasp! Spielberg must hate God!

Seriously though...Lucas seems to be pretty reserved in front of the camera. He's not a people-person like Spielberg...he doesn't go on and on for hours talking about this and that. He pretty much just answers the basic questions from interviewers. And interviewers are stupid and always ask about special effects and the big-name stars and stuff.

 

Shelley, I said how can you possibly argue otherwise because I just can't see how anybody can actually say that performances in AOTC are better than perfromances in a Spielberg film. All the actors Lucas have worked with say that he doesn't direct actors. Lucas himself says so. Watch the TPM DVD. When Lucas first meets his AD he tells him "I can handle, action cut, faster and more intense, the rest of the time I just sit there looking grumpy". Surely the fact that Lucas admits this in good humour is enough to convince you that he isn't a great director? Or maybe you think you know better than the man himself?

And Vlad, I meant when Lucas is being interviewed by the Lucasfilm documentary unit.

(As for A.I., trust me, as someone who has been studying it intensively for the last year, it was not dumbed down. everything kubrick wanted is i there. Proof of that is that audiences didn't understand it. But then again, as you can see form my sig, I'm being biased )

 

Lucas is a flat out genius in my opinion. Criticize him all you want. Look what he's created.

As for me, I'll take Star Wars over anything Spielberg has ever done. The original SW trilogy is even better than 90% of what Spielberg has done. I love Spielberg and his film, well, most of them. But for what Lucas has given the movie industry and moviegoers, that puts him up there with anyone.


Spielberg is like going to a high class restaurant? Spielberg is Art? Oh please. This man built a career on popcorn. And A.I. stunk to high heavens. Well made? Yes! Entertaining? Hell no, not in any sense of the word. Again, in my opinion.

As for action whoever said Spielberg would beat Lucas in action, not a chance. Lucas would smoke Spielberg in the action department. Spielberg is better in the directing actors department. As for visually, they are both fantastic. But Lucas has the edge. As far as imagination and creatively, this one isn't even close. Lucas blows him away. As for overall director, the nod goes to Spielberg. If you would have asked me this 20 years ago, I would have said Lucas.