The Comic Book Draft Episode III: Revenge of the Villains -- Congrats to Shadow_of_Durron!

Well I hate to come back to stuff that has already been settled, but what about this? Instead of numbers you could have like 8 locations and people could send their chars to the locations instead of numbering them, and whoever wound up in the same location fought? That would eliminate the problem of picking different locations, allow everyone that extra level of strategy, still allow for 2 prepped chars, and eliminate arguments like the one with Namor (I was still thinking even after that explanation from DI about the hose or pool etc.: Does he get there before the match and do this, or after he arrives? And if it's after, why don't they kill him while he's making his pool?).

 

Not that we need him, but what about Image's Invincible?

 

Oh by all means, let's put Strange back on the list now that I have the first pick.

As far as the unpicked Power List guys go:

Abomination - Demote him
Bizzaro - Stay
General Zod - Stay
Solomon Grundy - Demote him
Toxin - Demote him
Ultron - Stay

Basically I agree with Despised. But I would also add that we might want to consider demoting Apollo as well. Yeah, he's a Super-type. Yeah, he's pretty powerful. But he's really more on a level with the likes of Kon-El that any other of the big Supers. Majestic should've Wildstorm's representative on the power list in the first place. He's borderline, but that's why I bring it up. Something to think about.

Also, we might want to take another look at Kid Flash (Bart Allen). As of IC #7, he's grown and experienced and seems to be on a level with Wally. I mean, he was thrashing Superboy Prime (Not that that would've lasted forever.). Either Bart Allen should be moved up to the power list, or he should kinda merge with Wally as a sort of Hulk-ish "Choose incarnation" type deal, or 'Kid Flash' should be changed to 'Impulse' to mean that it represents him in his earlier days.

And yes, Zatanna should definitely be on the list. Tough to say whether it should be power list or regular list, though. She's no Strange or Fate, and she is known to bumble spells on occasion, but when she's on, she is on. There really isn't much she can't do. Pretty much limited to her imagination, within reason. I'm not having much luck digging up scans to prove it, though. Plus, she's a freakin' hawtie!

As for my suggestions:

Baron Mordo - Unsure as to which list. If we can't have Strange, maybe we can have his not-as-good-but-still-damn-powerful nemesis. The list lacks a bit when it comes to villain magicians, anyways.

Black Tom Cassidy - Regular list.

High Evolutionary - Power list.

Jack of Hearts - Tough call. If you read his bios, you'll probably automatically think regular list. I mean, wow. Concussive energy, right? He is more powerful that his limited bios suggest, though. He can go toe-to-toe with guys like the Surfer, and sure, lose pretty convincingly in the end, but how many wouldn't?

Namorita - Regular list.

Guardian - Come on, it's freakin' Guardian! Why wasn't he on the list these past three drafts? Regular list.

Vindicator - Regular list.

Northstar - Regular list.

Alexander Luthor Jr. - Regular list, but one helluva prep-type.

KGBeast - Just because he's cool. Regular list.

Photon (Genis-Vell) - P-p-p-power list! Honestly, he might be a bit too powerful. Especially if we're talking him when he's insane. I mean, that guy... just... boo-bam!

 

I would question the High Evolutionary, mainly because in looking him up it would seem hard to really guage his power level. Looking at his bio it is really vague...

"Strength Level: The High Evolutionary possesses the normal human strength of a man of his age, height, and build who engages in no regular exercise.

Known Superhuman Powers: The High Evolutionary possesses a highly evolved brain which has been heightened to the limit of human potential. The High Evolutionary has committed to memory all the written knowledge known to man. His vast intuitive capacity makes him one of the most brilliant theoreticians on Earth. The High Evolutionary possesses vast psionic powers enabling him to rearrange matter, among other feats. The extent of his psionic powers is unknown.


PS nice colors.

 

Well, a good gauge of his power level would be the fact the he once fought Apocalypse to a stalemate. As overrated as I now consider Fat Lips to be, that's still impressive. He's had other good showings, of course, (And some bad ones as well.) and I've heard that he even bested a weakened Galactus once. I can't confirm it anywhere, though. That's a helluva feat, surely, but I don't know if it would make him too powerful. I mean, freakin' Alpha Flight took it to a weakened Galactus once.

And thanks.

 

Yak ... while I like the suggestion's intentions, I think it just adds another level of understanding to n00bs and mindless work for the Commish for very little payoff.

If someone wanted to, we could devise 7 locations that didn't offer any advantage to anyone but just provide a backdrop to the match (i.e. arena on Apokalips, etc) then the commish could randomly select one for each round. Or something. Doesn't add anything much to me, but if someone is really pressing about it, then it could be done.

---

[i]Shurron [/i]

Your response to putting Strange back in is exactly why we won't. I mean, you argued Captain Atom over Spawn ... what are you gonna do with Dr. Strange? *shudders*

Also, I like the idea of clarifying Impulse over Kid Flash. I think I will adjust the list to reflect that.

Apollo -- Stays on the Power List. I think the fact that he was drafted last time speaks that he is considered valuable to that list. Which means, there's probably a good chance he'll be down to regular list for volume five
Baron Mordo -- In, PL
Black Tom -- In
High Evolutionary -- Seems iffy to me
Jack of Hearts -- Seems iffy if only for the lack of readily available information
Namorita -- In
Guardian -- In
Vindicator -- In
Northstar -- I already added her
Alexander Luthor Jr. -- In
KGBeast -- I guess I could include him
Photon -- I'm not sure ... anyone have clear feelings on him?

 

Your response to putting Strange back in is exactly why we won't. I mean, you argued Captain Atom over Spawn ... what are you gonna do with Dr. Strange? *shudders*

Indeed, indeed. As good as you may think he is... he's better.

Jack of Hearts -- Seems iffy if only for the lack of readily available information

His Marvel.com bio is better than the Wiki one, if that's what you were reading.

 

What Shadow does with his teams and his arguing is just plain scary. He doesn't need any help why would you give it to him? Think if Captain Atom beat Spawn, Strange beats...

...






...


everyone at once?


Congrats Shadow! Nice colors, also please kick so more butt in the video game draft. I have some money on you and I really don't want to lose it!

 

Answer me this then, how would Strange defeat someone like Darksied, or Silver Surfer? Prepared sure, but that would not be the case would it? Strange would not have his magical artifacts, nor would he have any protective spells in place at the start of any fight (except team fights), so how could he beat a speedster that can punch him in the mouth 20 times before he gets 1/2 a spell off?

 

Answer me this then, how would Strange defeat someone like Darksied, or Silver Surfer? Prepared sure, but that would not be the case would it? Strange would not have his magical artifacts, nor would he have any protective spells in place at the start of any fight (except team fights), so how could he beat a speedster that can punch him in the mouth 20 times before he gets 1/2 a spell off?

Oh? What about the Invisible Shields of Everlasting Echantment? You know, his shield that is always active. Not as good as the shields he uses to absorb blasts from Galactus, of course, but they get the job done. At least long enough for him to get himself situated, that is.

And the artifacts help, but they aren't essential. And he's defeated some pretty big nasties without any sort of prep.

 

A. Who let Captain Atom beat Spawn?
B. Doesn't Strange pretty much always wear the Eye of Agamotto or whatever it's called?

 

So I am wrong about the shield, but as you said it is not full strength, that helps against Flash/Zoom but what about Kryptonians/New Gods/Silver Surfer who can lift about 99 tons more than the simple speedsters? Would Strange be able to get up a stronger shield or move to the offensive while taking a speed blitz attack from one of them?

The trick for Strange is almost the same as it is for Xavier. Strange is human, he can't think near as fast as lets say......Supergirl......sounding familiar? By the Kryptonian vs Human reasoning you yourself presented, any superspeed type would react on a level far beyond the speed of human thought (in the case of the Xavier match), now all of a sudden Strange is different and can match people like Supergirl in that respect?

I doubt that against someone like that or like Darksied he would be able to do anything more than keep his defenses up, he would be on the defense from the very start and as has been stated over and over again it is hard to win matches while on the defense.

I just want to present the opposing side to this for the simple reason to be sure that we are doing the right thing, I am not vested in seeing Strange in the draft, it would be cool and I think he would fit, but I don't really care either way.

 

i just thought of something...you wanted more heroes...i brought this up...last time and it got rejected...what about Guy Gardner???

[image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/13/Maguire_guy.jpg/341px-Maguire_guy.jpg]

 

Another GL? This is the way I see it, "Hey lets get the entire corp in the draft!".

So that means I don't like the idea.

 

that sounds cool

 

Who said anything about them being low-grade? Just because they aren't his best doesn't make them crap.

And I can't believe you're trying to compare Xavier and Strange. First off, Strange is a far better telepath than Xavier, and secondly, Strange has taken hits that have KOed the Surfer and got up after a couple of seconds. Just the auto-shields in effect, of course.

And I'm seriously not going to waste my time posting the scans. Not only of those things, but of battles where Strange owns beings that are far beyond anyone else on the list. Yes, including Darkseid. Including some beings capable of some serious, serious speed. I get the distinct feeling that nothing is going to sway you from your opinion on this matter, so I'm not even going to try. I don't care that much. I'm not getting him, anyways. No one is.

And Strange can travel at faster-than-light speeds as well.

 

what about brainiac

 

Well, I took him off last time because he's basically got a serious deus ex machina complex going on when prepped.

Too much intelligence, too many resources. If you allow him 24 hours to do nothing but prep for a single opponent, and if the crazy plot devices that usually cause him to lose or whatever go bye-bye, which they will in a draft match, then he basically becomes too uber.

 

Right, and if he gets put on the PL he gets no prep time, and therefore sucks.

 

"First off, Strange is a far better telepath than Xavier"

Not without the Eye of Agmatto he isn't, the Eye is what gives him his vast telepathic power. Without that he is only going to be using his magic.

"Strange's own power is often amplified by the numerous magical artifacts that are in his possession or by artifacts that he uses in the course of his adventures. The two artifacts he carries with him at all times are the Eye of Agamotto and the Cloak of Levitation.

The Eye of Agamotto is a powerful and valued artifact that has many functions. Using the Eye, Strange can see through any lie, deception or illusion, and free others from their own illusions. It is often used to amplify his mind's eye, giving psychic abilities that rival the most powerful of telepaths. It is also often used to play back an area's past events and open dimensional portals. Evil can hardly withstand its light and it is often used as a weapon of last resort.

The Cloak of Levitation allows him to fly without using any magic. It responds to his thoughts as if it were part of him. Dr. Strange has used it many times as a "third set of hands" to attack a foe when his own body has been incapacitated. The cloak is nearly indestructible. It often escapes damage during even the most violent confrontations."

You see, without his artifacts he is a more reasonable character. If we follow the same rules for every other character, he won't get these things without prep time.

Namor does not get the Trident he is often seen with, and Orion does not get the mother box, and Captain Britian does not get the sword, and Magik does not get her vast resources, they all need prep to get that. I can probably find many more examples if I try. Tell me reasonably why Dr. Strange should get his stuff in every unprepared fight, I think without it he becomes something much more reasonable when you take a moment to seperate his abilities without his artifacts and his abilities with them.

And if you are going to pick him in hopes of getting all your matches into a teams match in order to really capitalize on his benefits, then you are going for the wrong strategy from the very start anyway.

Like I said, nothing personal I am just playing devils advocate.

 

Who cares? He's not on the list.

Seriously, I could respond to all that, (And there most certainly are a couple things to respond to. ) but I'm really just not going to. It's a waste of time. Strange is rightfully not going to be on the list. And if he somehow makes it on there, then hey, good news for me. Whatever.

And if you are going to pick him in hopes of getting all your matches into a teams match in order to really capitalize on his benefits, then you are going for the wrong strategy from the very start anyway.

Tsk, tsk. So little faith. *sigh*

 

Why not respond to it, we depowered Phoenix in order to keep her, se took the Motherbox away from Orion. Why not discuss Strange, if he is too powerful than adjust him as we have to others in the past.

If he gets no artifacts in regular fights he comes down to a reasonable level and one where he could be in serious danger of losing in a few situations, that is what the no prep for PL characters was made for right?

 

Because I'm going to sleep now, that's why. And I think you're very much underestimating Strange w/o prep and his artifacts. Would that make him defeatable? Yeah, maybe. Still, you wouldn't catch me putting my money on anyone else but Strange in a fight against anyone else on the list. Not the power-listers or prepped powerhouses. Unprepped Strange has overcome prep from the best of them many, many times.

 

Do people like Superman and the like think that fast? I know they avoid buildings and etc. when moving at that speed, but there is a limit. They don't seem to form coherent thoughts and plans that fast, for the most part it just seems their reflexes are amped up. Any fool can run over a hurdle just seeing it out one part of the eye, but that doesn't mean they thought consciously to do so or could think anything coherent in that time. They don't think that fast, it's all reflex. That's what I think. Except maybe Flash, he actually does seem to think that fast from my limited experience. That's just what I, with my very limited DC experience, could come up with. If not, then thoughts must work different in DC than in Marvel.

 

"Still, you wouldn't catch me putting my money on anyone else but Strange in a fight against anyone else on the list."

I could see X Man and Darksied giving Strange a hard fight in a battle, and without his artifacts I honestly don't know who I would give a nod to. I wouldn't be a blow out by any means, that is for sure.

Why do we give so much credit to Strange, and not to Fate? He has taken gods without prep, he has super durability, super strength, and massive magical power. They are even compaired to each other from time to time, yet we give many losses to Fate, why would unprepared Strange by lightyears beyond him?

I have seen all the stuff DD posted about Strange when he was a GM, and sure it was good stuff. But all that was taking into consideration that he had his artifacts on person, the amulet and cloak. Again without them it becomes a different situation IMO.

I am not going to present any more to this, other people voiced opinions similar to mine so if they really want to see Strange they should speak up. I played the advocate for him being in the draft long enough, 2 drafts now I believe.

PS Yak- "Do people like Superman and the like think that fast?"

Quote from wiki....

"Super intellect: In the earliest comics, Kryptonians were endowed with genius-level intellects on their native planet. Eventually, this superior mental talent was altered to being another superpower gained only under the influence of a yellow sun (though Krypton still possessed an advanced educational and intellectual state). In the Silver Age comics, Superman possessed the intelligence of a collection of the world's greatest minds. He had a computer-like brain, which gave him total recall and the ability to speak all earthly languages and even most alien ones. The former ability is evidenced when he memorized the content of the Metropolis phone book in its entirety and all of the files at the Daily Planet. His skill with science and mathematics were beyond human comprehension. However, over time, the power as a whole has been scaled back, if not eliminated, in current comics. The ability is evident in The New Batman-Superman Adventures and the Justice League cartoon series and Birthright, though. In the cartoon The Last Son of Krypton, Lana Lang states that he is a "boy genius" and he is described as having a computer-like mind on the WB website [1]. In Birthright continuity, Superman does retain his eidetic memory combined with his super-speed to learn and comprehend vast amounts of knowledge. Aside from power, his parents were among Krypton's brightest, as his father Jor-El was the planet's greatest scientist and his mother Lara was an astronaut or historian (depending on continuity). Also, in the Smallville episode Obsession, Clark has an understanding of quantum physics."