[ROTS] ROTS effect on the Rest of the Saga

This doesn't really affect the saga per se...

I wondered on the ANH dvd why GL changed Obi-
Wan's dragon roar to scare away the sand people. Well after viewing ROTS, it seems that Ben used the high pitched yell of the feathered lizard he was riding around on Utapau. Kind of a neat little tie-in.

 

I think the biggest thing is that Artoo knows everything all along! Endless implications there.

I love when Luke asks Ben what happened to his father. Ben doesn't answer for a couple of seconds and gives this subtle shifty-eyed look - he's trying to figure out what exactly to tell Luke.

This raises an interesting question... How did Obi-Wan and Yoda find out about Vader? At the end of the film, they believed Anakin was dead. There's some unfinished business with Obi-Wan and Yoda between ROTS and ANH- Yoda, at least, couldn't have found out while isolated on Dagobah. (Unless maybe Qui-Gon told them? ) And did Owen and Beru know that Anakin became Vader or did he believe Anakin had died? Perhaps an EU novel will cover this.

 

the younglings scene was too much.
there's no redemtion when youre killing kids.

 

I am probably more grateful now for the OT than I ever have been. You need it after the mindblowing tragedy that the PT has become. Because I now think it's impossible to watch either TPM or AOTC and not think about what's coming in ROTS. They're all intrinsically linked. Afterwards we need the OT to turn things around, to lighten up the mood, and make things fun again... while of course, still retaining that heavy emotional connection we now have with Vader, and the expanded hatred we feel for the Emperor. Both trilogies strengthen each other thematically... and people aren't kidding when they say it's impossible not to think of it all as one Saga. I didn't appreciate that until now.

And although it's quite controversial still, I love even more that young Anakin was put in at the end of ROTJ. I used to think it was for Luke's benefit- so he can finally see his hero father, before he became Vader. But now I see it differently, it's actually for US. It's the catharsis. Luke did not have to see Anakin's turn like we did. He (the Anakin we know- Hayden) has come full circle, and now we, as well as Luke, can truly forgive him.

 

yes the OT is so much better now.
so many scenes and lines from yoda & ben are more meaningful.

 

Quick watching the OT again (that means leaving out the stuff w/ Han, Lando, Ewoks to focus on Luke and Anakin), ROTS seems to have completely changed my perspective and there is no going back. No longer a fun adventure, but rather more like a Greek tragedy.

I used to hate Owen for the way he lied to Luke in ANH, but now I see the necessity for it. Owen really loved Luke and wanted to help him the best way he knew how. Plus, with Luke going off to join the Academy, the Emperor would certainly have found out about him, and he would never have learned of the good side to the Force.

Also, the entire time with Vader in ESB and ROTJ, he still cannot let go..he just won't do it. It seemed to me that his quest for Luke was to somehow makeup for losing Padme, but he continues to use his flawed logic. He still tries to tempt others (Luke) with ultimate power...which is fleeting and ultimately sel-destructive. And he steps over everyone to do it. Killing officers, breaking deals, and torturing Han and Leia now seem like things that don't phase Vader in the slightest...it's not that he enjoys his work or gets pleasure out of it, but rather as mere stepping stones or everyday duties to get his ultimate power.

Also, every scene in ROTJ with the Emperor now seems scarier. I feel the uneasiness and fear that Luke has walking into the Emperor's throne room. It's also interesting that he's trying to bring Luke to the Dark side the same way he brought Anakin...to protect your loved ones. "It's the only way you can save your friends." Reminds me very much of Godfather II when one can lose one's family by trying to protect it.

My only problem now is R2 and Yoda's meeting on Dagobah...I would think that they would know each other and not fight over a lamp so much. Also, I was hoping ROTS might explain better why Dagobah seems so "familiar" to Luke, like its "something out of a dream."

Okay, I'm done...

 

I'm not sold that the Emperor would have known of Luke had he gone to the academy. Leia was a member of the Senate and he didn't know her as Anakin's son.

Interesting comment on Yoda and R2 on Dagobah. Perhaps they were merely putting on a show? I can totally see that type of humor from Yoda, the question is if R2 could play along....

 

I began watching ANH earlier today and there are so many things that have a completly different meaning to me now.

When Artoo and Threepio lands on Tatooine. No wonder Artoo goes his own way. His been here before, he remembers it and knows where he's going.

That scene when Vader starts to force choke Admiral Motti because Motti doesn't believe in the force. Vader/Anakin has worked hard for 20+ years to learn everything there is to know about the force, so no wonder he gets really angry.

The scenes with Obi-Wan has of course brought new meaning. I can almost see a look of recognition on old Ben's face when he sees Artoo. I also love his reaction when he sees the message from Leia. All the old memories are coming back to him.

I see Luke a little different now as well. I can see Anakin in him. They both let their emotions control them (Luke hurries home to his uncle and aunt, although Obi-Wan tries to stop him) and they are both impatient and arrogant (Luke is prepared to leave when Han demands 10 000 credits and says that he can fly a ship himself). I can't blame Yoda for not wanting to train him.

I can't wait to see the rest of OT!

 

How does Anakin know about being a force ghost? We now know that Qui-Gon discovered it and Yoda and Obi-Wan learned it while in exile.

So how come Anakin gets to do it too? When did he learn?

 

So how come Anakin gets to do it too? When did he learn?


Pure speculation here...

Anakin never does learn it. But since he fulfills his destiny and brings balance to the Force, the midichlorians that created him can certainly grant him immortality.

 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Lucas says something about that on the ROTJ DVD Commentary, how Obi-Wan and Yoda "help" him along when he dies redeemed a Jedi.

 

I've always felt that that the prequel trilogy was ruining star wars until ROTS. The whole series is effected so much in a positive way because of the movie.

 

It finally completes the reasoning for why Anakin returns in the final moments of the saga.

It is made painfully clear that Skywalker is consumed by the fear of a loved one passing into death. Shimi inspired this type of fear in him. That he is completely unwilling to allow any loved one to die. So when Luke is on the verge of death, Anakin surfaces to save his beloved son (the son of Padme.)

Not only it it about love, it is about the protection of loved ones.

The reasoning, cycle, and character arc are all now complete.

-Seldon

 

About Yoda and the flashlight... He misses his lightsaber! Correct me if I'm wrong, but he dropped it in his fight with the Emperor didn't he?

And Artoo and Yoda didn't have all that many scenes together in the PT, so I can understand why they're not overly-chumy in TESB.

 

The main thing for me will be knowing that for the 20 years alone in his hut, Obi-Wan has been learning from Qui-Gon.

 

The Yoda/R2 thing bothered me for a moment, until I thought about it, and realized I don't think they were ever in the same place at the same time in the PT, were they?

 

I like the scene in TESB, right after the cave, they cut to Yoda and R2 outside. R2 beebs something, and Yoda kinda... "hmmph"s back at him.I always thought, "they know each other".

I also like knowing for SURE that R2 didnt get his memory wiped and C-3PO did.

I cant wait to watch TPM and Clones, then go see RotS and come home to the OT.
Maybe I'll do that tomorrow.

 

Having just rewatched TPM and AOTC, these scenes really stuck out:

-Anakin giving Padmé the Japor snippet. With the attention it got in RotS, this scene really hurts now.
-Qui-Gon/Shmi scenes

Nothing else from TPM, really. To me, it's just too innocent to really invoke anything related to the tragedy that is RotS.

-Obi-Wan inspecting the clones. The scene is SO different now. It's eerie, VERY unsettling. I doubt I'll ever play Republic Commando again! >_< (though by the way, did anyone notice a (rumored) cameo of Delta Squad?)
-Anakin telling Padmé of his political opinions. Strong and wise leader and everything. I think the "rule the galaxy" speech in RotS makes sense now. In AOTC, it was perhaps a harmless fantasy, sparked by being unsatisfied with the progressing decay of the Republic. By "someone wise" he was probably picturing Padmé. When he went over to the Dark Side, this fantasy was perverted, twisted and brought to the surface.

 

I don't know about you guys, but before you were kind of just told that Vader and Palpatine were the most hated guys in the galaxy. And now we know why!

 

"Just for once, let me look on you with my own eyes"

This literally echoed in my head as I saw the digital displays in the Vader eyes. This line used to sort of confuse me because I used to assume that the eyes were simply just glass domes, so it seemed more poetic than anything. Now it actually means alot.

 

One thing that really has been puzzling me are the clones. Were they preprogrammed w. Order 66? and if so by who?

 

NorCal, seeing what he sees behind those eyes, that was a powerful shot. I was like, oh man, I get it now. I think without question ROTS makes ROTJ a more powerful film.

You know, I'm just thinking about parallels with symbolism in these movies. And it has occured to me just now how objects link characters, like the necklace binding Anakin and Padme together and Anakin's lightsaber being the link with Luke until his hand gets chopped off. Oh, this is something (sorry for my stream of consciousness writing) but it's like it's like I see it that part now as Vader cutting Luke's hand to get rid of that memory of his past, like a part of a little redemption. Sorry if this makes no sense but wow, that makes me view that scene a little differently after seeing ROTS.

Off to ponder more....

EDIT: Storm, gosh, I don't recall Yoda and R2 having any screen time together in the PT but he was bound to be aware of Yoda.

 

Earlier this evening, on my second viewing of the movie, I thought of something that I hadn't the first time I saw it in the scene where Obi-Wan tells Padmé what has happened. When he tells her that Palpatine is the Sith Lord, I remembered the scene in TPM where she calls for the vote of no confidence in Valorum. It was clear there (thanks to some of Portman's best acting in the series) that she knew she was not doing the right and honorable thing. Now the full weight of what she did those years ago hits her. No wonder she has a hard time accepting the truth (well, I guess the part about her husband turning to the dark side would be tough too , but this just adds to the shock).

 

I posted this in the more in depth thread of ROTS and it should really rather be here instead.

Here's a scene to view differently. In the Death Star battle, when Vader is chasing down Luke and he says, "The Force is strong with this one.." He doesn't get much time to contemplate this because soon after he gets hit and catapulted out. But wow, interesting to me. And I haven't watched ANH again but hmm, this I will look at deeply.

Jeff 42, you are right about that scene in TPM. She didn't want to do that but Palpy manipulated the situation to gain power. Good point.

On the other thread people have been talking about whether or not Vader realizes Leia is his daughter in ANH. I've often wondered about that. I've often wondered if it's apparent with just they way they talk to each other exchanging barbs and what not. I was like, hmm, does he see Padme some in Leia. Oooh, how symbolic is that shot when Vader holds Leia back when the Death Star's weapon activates. Hmm, interesting. I come up with these better when I don't think about them, ironic.

 

Jeff 42, when I saw your username, I cried a little. The emotional weight of all the happy memories I have of those '99 days here at TFN finally hit me. You're one of the people I remember from those days, and I just got nostalgic.

Anyway. I agree, one of the coolest shots in the whole movie was the one of the inside of the Vader mask. And what he says after he wakes up in the suit, that changed my whole perspective on the characters. It finally made the transition from Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader real in my mind. I haven't rewatched any of the other movies yet, but when I do, I know I will be thinking, "That's the person I got to know in the PT in that suit. He really was a good person once, I have seen that for myself." I think it'll make the whole series a great deal more emotionally affecting for me. Now I can't wait to rewatch the OT!