Characters Warrior Queen, Gentle Lady - NEW DISCUSSION TOPIC Is Padmé a Mary Sue?

Don't despair Liz I'm here to write about her or rather what they are doing with her...I was able to watch Senate Spy the other day (the 2nd episode I've able to watch scinse Se. 2 started)and though I loved the episode, I find myself a little upset with on how the writers of the show are handling my favorite character? strike 2! This time it was part of the dialogue it in the first scene that bugs me. First it was her lines to threepio...they could of use better lines to not make her sound like, rude impatient, uncaring B!@+* ...she also seemed untrusting of him a little further along the episode with the "I think I'll go for a walk line. I know he talks a lot but its her droid...he wouldn't do anything if she told not to...and second they made her look like a total hypocrite in the eyes of many viewers with the whole ?anger? at Anakin thing witch would not had happened had they chosen better dialogue. This are small things that are contradicting the character and not creating a smooth flow between the movie and the show which is a real shame; they are doing a spectacular with Anakin. If it were me I would make them watch the PT again ? oh well, I guess I?ll have to forget about the PT when it comes to her?

 

I don't write Padme much at all, but I have to agree with the above poster. In 'Senate Spy', Padme came off the worst I've seen her in Clone Wars, much less the PT. It was a dumb episode all around.

 

Yes, I can see what you mean about "Senate Spy."

I haven't written anything lately about Padme in the CL, but I did start a new Padme/Vader fic called "Brown Eyes." I don't really care for Padme's character that much in the Clone Wars, I have to say. For some reason, her voice and mannerisms irritate me. I like Anakin and Obi-Wan, though.

 

I've just started an Anakin/Padme story where I am writing about their hidden marriage from the Jedi.

 

Wow, been a while since I've seen this thread active! The CW series has fed me plenty of Padmé-centric plot bunnies lately (well, moreso A/P) - I've got several near completion; perhaps I ought to start posting fic here again. That's definitely been a while.

The Threepio interactions didn't bother me: in the opening scene, where she's trying to (understandably) dismiss him to get some all-too-rare alone time with Anakin, she strikes me as more amused than genuinely annoyed. (I actually really liked that moment.) The "taking a walk" bit - she's undercover, risking death if she gets caught, and thus doesn't want to run the risk of him saying/doing something that compromises her - or Anakin's - cover. Let's face it, Threepio isn't the most stealthy being in the GFFA. Not to mention it's harder to get faux-snuggly one-on-one time with your intended target if you've got a fussy protocol droid forever hovering over you.

The only area I was iffy on was her still being snippy with Anakin the next day over their ruined evening; I didn't think it was fair for her to hold something against him that he had no control over, especially since she's usually the one reminding him about duty. But even that wasn't completely ridiculous to me: she hasn't seen her husband in months, was all set for an intimate evening with him, and they're interrupted again - this is undoubtedly not the first time it's happened. She's human; at some point the stresses of trying to pull off a secret life are going to hit her too, no matter how much more "rational" she is than Anakin. It's one thing to "know" their secret life is going to be difficult; it's quite another to truly live it. So while it was b****y, and I probably would have toned her reaction down somewhat if I'd been writing, it was still IMO somewhat understandable.

-- Aeryn

 

I think I am in the right place. I apologize if I am not. I have written a Fan Fiction on my blog. What Anakin Skywalker and Padme Naberrie Amidala Skywalker had to do to do to keep their love intact as long as they did. I think there were some real biological questions that can be answered there, such as women's health facts totally overlooked.

I think Padme as a character could have been built stronger. But of course there are reasons for that not to happen. They had a good piece that were deleted scenes in ROTS.

I think I have touched on a Dark Padme in my Fan Fiction on my blog, but there is a biological reason for that, too.

Oh and my love story incorporates the Tantra and the Kama Sutra

I take comments. I am okay with it.

~Dr. Ariafya

 

saving from an auto lock!


does anyone have a link to a resource of Padme's doings during the Clone Wars series, etc? I need a good source to help me write my Padme journal fanfic, related to a fanfic I wrote a few years ago.

 

First of all, i would like to say that Padme was one of my favourite characters in the PT. I hold no grudge against her!
But there is this thing that is bothering me....


Is Padme too good to be true? Could she be a Mary-Sue? I mean, she is always so selfless, devoted to her causes and duties, falls in love with a jedi and asks him to continue and stay in the order even though she has to life a life in secret and full of stress....and she always gets into trouble!

From the PT films to the cartoon we constantly see her in danger and she always is so brave, blah blah blah...

dont get me wrong! i was just wondering...

 

Head on over to the PT board and you'll find a lot of people who'll say no. There's a thread on whether she was an accessory to Anakin's murder of the Tuskens. It's become very heated.

 

Thanks! Sorry, I can't think of any resources apart from the Databank at starwars.com. I'm pretty sure there should be some fan resources, though. Perhaps you can Google it? Please link back if you do find it. It would be good to have some sourt of Padme resource post in this thread.

I spy a new discussion topic.

Was Padmé an enabler? is topic 13 on this very thread. You should check it out.

 

NEW DISCUSSION TOPIC

From ida_dida:Is Padmé too good to be true? Could she be a Mary-Sue? She is depicted as completely selfless and devoted to duty. Yes, she falls in love with a Jedi but she self-sacrificingly asks him to continue and stay in the Order. She also seems to keep falling into the pattern of needing to be rescued. Does she fit the profile of Mary Sue? Why or why not?

 

No, she isn't a Mary Sue. She's not completely selfless; she married Anakin, knowing that it was against the Jedi Code for him to marry. Although I don't remember this ever being specifically mentioned, it probably would not go over too well in the Senate for her to be married to a Jedi either. She got pregnant and kept that a secret, and said that the Queen would probably not allow her to serve in the Senate once the baby comes. Definitely not someone who is completely devoted to duty.

Before ROTS, I was afraid that if she helped start the Rebellion, her character would become a Mary Sue. However, even her being part of the coalition of 2000 did not make her a Mary Sue character. The deleted scene from ROTS was well done and did not portray her as the perfect sacrificial martyr for the cause.

 

A Mary Sue's key attributes are a lack of flaws and obvious wish-fulfillment for the creator, to the point that the reader can tell the writer favors the Mary Sue over other characters. Padme doesn't fit into that mold at all.

 

Um... which Padmé? Canon Padmé from the movies or canon Padmé from the comic strip ...er... I mean TV show? If the movies, which film? The Queen of the Naboo "gets it done" Padme from TPM? "Aggressive negotiations? Padmé from Clones? Or how about Sith's "I'm pregnant so everything gets to me" Padmé?

If it?s fanfic we?re talking about, add about a million more to those already diverse Padmés.

It seems to me that a Mary Sue (as defined so concisely by TKL) exists only in relation to the author who created that particular version of her. Whose daydreams, exactly, are being projected onto Padmé? Different authors will project onto her different kinds of attributes and perfections. (Look at the cartoon Padmé. The woman has a two-inch waist and eyes the size of saucers... ) And yet, in most cases, her intrinsic character remains recognizable. There is something larger here.

Maybe the better question is still the broader one, ?Is Padmé too good to be true?? Might as well ask that about any larger-than life character, whether in a myth, a fairy tale, or any other kind of heroine, real or imagined. Padmé is both an idea and an ideal. She is a particular representation of the cross-culturally familiar figure of the Warrior Queen (i guess you could say that she morphed, over the original story, into a truncated form of the Queen/mother). How we see her, how we relate to her, is colored by the way she is cast by various authors, but I would argue that the fact that she can be seen in so many different ways attests to her archetypal origins and nature.

So, no. I don?t think Padmé is a Mary Sue. I think she is furthest thing from it, actually. But then, I feel that way about all of the characters in the SW saga.

Edit: AFterthought: Do Mary Sues ever suffer irreparable personal tragedy?

 

Anakin probably views Padme as a Mary Sue but that is the extent of it.

Yea. It's usually shown as a way to get the main character to sympathize with the OC. Then get with her/him.

 

Far from "too good to be true" -

While she was bold enough to face Anakin on Mustafar, Padme was also his enabler. She had plenty of flaws to counter her strengths as crafted by Lucas. That is a completely different notion from saying she is portrayed as a Mary Sue in fanfic. That can and has happened, but it's also happened to Mara Jade, Luke Skywalker, Anakin Solo and/or Skywalker, Jaina Solo, Leia Solo, and the list goes on and on...

 

To me Padmè is a mixture of good Mary-Sue's such as Belle/Mulan & "mythical" version of a hitchcockian woman (seemly perfect woman with flaws that often proved to be her doom one way or another) and often takes charge or put in situations that put her in a ?manly? role. For this reason I was really excited when I heard about ?Senate Spy? because it could?ve finally given the character the depth it deserved but I was deeply disappointed?
The problem is that as of yet, Padmè?s character has not been handled in a balanced manner since episode I (though there is potential out there...just look at the PT scrips, deleted scenes & CW cartoon!)which is why she is either viewed as typical Sue or the complete opposite; something that is not likely to change with the CWS?

BTW,leia_naberrie could you please provide links for the topics on this board? it will make it much easier to find them, Thanks!

 

Hey guys! Off Topic:

Would anyone be kind enough to provide me with the dialogue for Senate Spy?

It's for a project I'm working on & I couldn't find the episode online...so please help!

I'll appreciate it greatly!

 

Oh my... where to begin?

I'm just going to give my thoughts on Padme. As some people might know I used to love this character so much and it had a lot to do with a certain actress. Nowadays I can see a little more clearly.

Anakin is begging for Padme to talk to him in Episode 3 and she refuses to do it. Every woman in the world would want a guy as open about his feelings as Anakin yet she asks for the truth and then says woah, nah it's just a dream, forget I brought it up.

If I try to bring this up anywhere else everyone tells me it's the bad writing of Lucas, hopefully I won't get this here.

Anakin constantly looks for guidance from her, he trusts her and she just says, oh you'll be fine.

Call her an accessory, a mary sue, or just daft.

She changes from film to film and who knows what's going on in the Clones Wars cartoon. I only watch it because of R2.

She basically tells Anakin to trust her and tell her the truth and when he does it scares her and she just runs away from his comments for the rest of the film.


Still I love the Ewan/Natalie scene to this day.. "You're going to kill him aren't you?"

I think those two could have really nailed it even better had they been allowed to ad lib that scene a little. I don't know if either of them are particular fond of that type of acting but I'd like to see where it could have gone.

 

Here you go...its the episode online. Hope i helped
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=H6AGI17C

 

I agree with this. I've started to find the nightmare scene a bit frustrating. Padme, hon--you know that your husband has prophetic dreams about people dying, and he just woke up terrified after having one about you. And all you can do is brush him off, talk about how the baby is going to change your lives and then go on about how the baby is going to affect your career? Then later on, he tells you that he has found a way to save you from his nightmares, and you brush him off again and tell him that he'll be fine? I'd want to ask a few more questions myself.

She encouraged him to go to Obi-Wan, but again, that was as much about her, how the baby was going to affect her, as it was about Anakin. This is where I agree with a statement many people have made on these forums: Padme should have encouraged Anakin to go to Obi-Wan, Yoda, the Council, someone about what happened with his mother. I won't go so far as to call her an enabler, but the only person who took Anakin's visions seriously was Anakin, which is kind of sad.

Anakin didn't really "see" Padme very well either or he would have known beyond a shadow of a doubt that she would rather die than see him become a pawn of Palpatine in order to save her. Neither of them saw/understood the other very well, which is sad, because I believe love was really there, that they each loved the other with everything they had.

I definitely don't think she's a Mary Sue, I'm going with "daft," but then again, every character in ROTS was daft other than Palpatine, Mace, Yoda and Obi-Wan. And the latter three were daft to an extent.

 

Yes, unfortunately everyone has to look a little less smart in the wake of Palpatine's brilliance.

His overall plot throughout the films is genius but that's a discussion for another thread.

But it's true they don't really KNOW each other. They rush into a marriage after not seeing each other for 10 years and even 10 years prior they didn't spend enough time to know each other they were both too young to know themselves for that matter.

Then Anakin is off fighting a war while Padme is fighting her own wars in the senate. When they did get together I don't think the first thing on both of their minds would be to have nice long discussions on who the other was.

So while yes, I agree the love was there. Perhaps to a point where it weakened both of them. Actually that's a pretty safe assumption now that I think about it.

 

I just thought I'd put my 2 cents in...

1. The only time that Anakin is "is begging for Padme to talk to him in Episode 3"is when he tries to open to her was when he told her "I'm not the Jedi I should be" (this is after she ask him not to shut her out which seemed to happened often, including after his first nightmare.)but when she probe a little deeper he once again he shut her out. While in many ways Padmè may be a guide & mentor to Anakin, she can?t fully act as such; she has the power to impose her will like mentors sometimes do but she doesn?t, why? because she is fist and foremost his Wife; She can be suggestive, express & make him see her POV(like in regards to the Tuskens) but that?s about it?heck all life mentors can only do that up until a certain point?like any human being, in the end it was up to Anakin himself. Also, Padmè couldn?t ask for honesty past the first nightmare sequence because she is forced to keep a secret, remember?

2.Padmè does take Anakin's nightmare very seriously but she does not think of Anakin or even herself when he tells her about it...?And the baby??..after his response ?I don?t knowit is pretty clear that she realizes that her statement does nothing than depend his fears and tries to brush it off with ?It was only a dream? and tries to get his mind focus on the ?real? changes (that for many understandable reasons she?s afraid of)the baby will cause and suggesting asking for help for both their sakes(which Anakin refuses)in light that she knows that Ani will now be tormented by his nightmare adding to their problems because he?s not going to be able to be of any help to her or himself because of it. This was the time Anakin is supposed to be the rock & Padmè the one holding on, which he tries and miserably fails because he's conflicted and believes he has to make it on his own... he has Padmè relying on him now.

3. I believe they really knew each other. They just made wrong choices based on the difficult circumstances they were facing. To them it cost them everything.

 

I've read the novel and in that one, Padme thinks that Anakin's dream its just a metaphor, that he is too worried about her and the baby's safe....She doesn't think that is important at all.

But before i read it, i thought that she was very worried too by the look on her face in the film.Its a different interpentation between those two...