Let's murder everyone who enters the country illegally.

I think that makes the point of this thread fairly clear.

So, sweet pea, why should we shoot people for crossing our border without permission?

Edit/ I realize other people may not feel included by that, so for those of you who don't think everyone who breaks the law should be shot, let's discuss murder by proxy as an underlying theme of American politics.

 

For everyone else here's the deal.

I propose that to secure the border, we bring home our boys from foreign lands. And put them on the border.
If you chose to trespass and enter the country illegally. Then you get shot.

Essentially this is the same type of thing we do with our ports, Coast Guard, and our air space, Air Force-Navy-Marines,.
Yet for some reason if we do this on OUR land it's nuts?

*edit- Article 4 section 4 of the U.S. Constitution states the Federal Government has the role to "shall protect each of them [the States] against Invasion..."

 

Yeah, I believe that's called disproportionate use of force. Or some such, which is illegal. It'd be like killing a shoplifter or cutting off someone's hand for stealing. We just don't do it here and we try to call ourselves civilized for a reason.

 

5th Amendment..

"nor shall any person... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;"

Hey look, somehow your plan to summarily execute people isn't Constitutional. Who'd have thought.

 

I know one person who could get behind this idea:
[image=http://creativegreenius.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/i-am-the-law.jpg]

 

It's a border not a freeway.
You're not supposed to cross it where-ever and when-ever you want, and Like I said , if you break the law in a similar fashion, in the air , or in the water you will likely be shot- the .50 Beowulf rifle was invented for the Coast Guard to shoot out the motor of a boat.
So why the exception for land?
The Coast Guard's origins is the Revenue Cutter Service, their sole job at the time was to make sure goods were not being smuggled in.

Along time ago my squadron was doing some exercises off the coast of North Carolina on USS Kearsarge when some yahoo in a little private helicopter kept approaching the ship, like he was going to land. The radio message was clear, "do not come any closer or we will fire upon you." He got the message and he left the area.

So were ya'll "for" or "against" shooting the Pirates?

 

To execute someone, you have to have them in custody.
Like Che did in Cuba.
If you don't think anyone should ever be shot then I guess we need to disarm all police and military, since any use of arms is a summary execution in your eyes.

For example, at the Tomb of the Unknown, the Guard is armed. If you attempt to deface or desecrate the tomb, you will be warned, if you ignore the warning, you will be shot. That's the standing order.

We are talking about securing and guarding a border.

 

You really don't see the difference between shooting out the motor of a boat and murdering a human being?

Because they didn't know his intentions and he might have posed a threat to your squadron. If he was a dude floating half-naked on a plank of wood I rather doubt he would have been threatened in the same fashion -- he would likely have been brought aboard.

Again, you don't see the difference between someone presenting a genuine threat to human life and someone crossing an essentially arbitrary line in the sand?

Sure, if they run across the border firing an AK into the air, take them down. They obviously intend to start something that won't end well. But just for coming across? If you can't see how that's disproportionate, well, I don't know where to begin.

 

I don't think you should ever be given a weapon and you should probably be kept in a padded room for your own safety and the safety of those around you. I don't mind if they're armed so much though.

So, you want to shoot on site(and sight), so even if it were, say an American citizen, you'd be fine killing them.

Good to know, between the two options I'd definitely say not racist. Presumably we should guard the Canadian border too.

Festung America.

 

Is there a difference, sure. But at the same time we don't know the intentions of those crossing the dessert. Some will be carrying illegal items etc.
Besides the Border Patrol already carries arms, they are just too few to get the job done.

 

As a reminder, the job done in question is shooting anyone they find.

 

according to them
Daily Duties:
One of the most important activities of a Border Patrol Agent is line watch. This involves the detection, prevention and apprehension of terrorists, undocumented aliens and smugglers of aliens at or near the land border by maintaining surveillance from a covert position, following up leads, responding to electronic sensor television systems, aircraft sightings, and interpreting and following tracks, marks and other physical evidence. Some of the major activities are traffic check, traffic observation, city patrol, transportation check, administrative, intelligence, and anti-smuggling activities.

Just noticed- I meant "desert" instead of "dessert".

Think the way "guarded" Area 51, [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Wfm_x51_area51_warningsign.jpg]
What's that last line?
Deadly Force Authorized.

 

So thats what you want the troops you plan to send to the border to do? well that's fine why didn't you say so?

Oh wait you said you wanted them to shoot people on sight. That's right.

 

You're right! Let's not have any control at all over who enters the country and let's never ever make anyone leave!

 

Yes, because there is no middle ground between shooting people in the face and not doing anything.

Wow, when you boil issues down to polar extremes it gets really simple and easy to avoid having to think doesn't it?

 

On sight? NO.
If they choose to cross the border illegally? Yes, that's what guards do.

Have you ever seen people cross the border? I have. In Arizona, MAG-26 was doing some training "operation" at Yuma (MAG-29 was in Iraq). They KNOW they are doing something illegal. Every time we flew within a mile they ran for cover. During night ops we could see them better with the night vision goggles.
It just seems like it would be SO EASY, to stop them. I remember asking the pilots "Is anyone going to arrest them or chase them off?"

I'm all for open borders, but they must be secure.



So why is this locked?

My last statements are;
What do YOU think a guard does?
Try entering an Embassy of the U.S. illegally and see what the Marines do.
Hop the fence and run up to the White House and see what happens.
Re-Read what I wrote about the Tomb of the Unknowns.
Run onto the Air Field of any Air Force base illegally, and see what happens.
Do you understand that Murder requires malice or intent?
Joyride around an orange grove / ranch, and see what the owner does.

Just so you know, my Step mother-in-law is an immigrant, who is about to be sworn in as a U.S. Citizen. She did the paperwork, received her work visa. Then worked hard and became a productive member of society.
No problems there.
It's simple.
If you don't want trouble, don't start trouble, and play by the rules.

 

Sweetpea, I have to say I really respect the insight into murder provided by your unique background and experiences.