George Lucas is Retiring

I honestly have very little patience with people who can't express their opinions without being rude or insulting. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it reduces the validity of the opinion in my eyes when adults can't behave as such when expressing their opinions.

My children behave more maturely than these people. So did members of Congress when debating Obamacare.

How hard is it to say, "I didn't like the prequels, I couldn't relate to the characters and Jar-Jar annoyed me; I'll stick with the originals," as opposed to "Lucas needs to die"?

I won't argue with you about the 3D because I've only seen Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows in 3D. I'll reserve my opinion on that issue for next month when I see TPM.

However, TPM is "largely considered to be the least favorite" by whom? I think this is a largely-held misconception based on the fact that the TPM haters are the loudest, but to my knowledge, no objective and comprehensive poll of moviegoers or Star Wars fans has been done which would show that TPM is "largely considered the least favorite."

 

I agree with MissPadme. If the majority of a "fan"'s time on Star Wars is spent hating on Star Wars, when exactly is said fan enjoying Star Wars? He or she might enjoy hating Star Wars and Lucas, but that is not the same as enjoying Star Wars. It's time to move on to a franchise he or she actually likes.

I'm also not big on the "But that side did it too!" or "That side did it first!"

That sort of thing also belongs on an elementary school playground.

 

I'm not going to speak for MissPadme, but since you haven't called Lucas a hateful name and your discussions of what you dislike are limited to exactly that--civil discussions about the particular plot points that you dislike--why would you defend the so-called fans who are behaving worse than spoiled children who didn't get what they wanted from Santa Claus?

 

IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes I take somewhat seriously but it's still a poll of people who visit the sites.

I certainly would not base an opinion on posts you've seen on this site since 2003, though. And I registered my first user name here in October 2000; I've been lurking here since just before TPM was released. Again, you are talking about whose voices are the loudest; the more negative posters also seem to be the most vehement. Additionally, the user base has changed quite a bit since 2003.

I'm not particularly interested in "convincing" you that TPM is more popular than any of the other movies, that isn't the point; the point is that a statement such as "largely considered" to be the least favorite--or a similar statement, "most people liked TPM the least"--needs more evidence before being presented as fact.

There are a lot of statements like that around the site, the more extreme version is "nobody liked the prequels" or "nobody over 25 liked the prequels."

 

Yes, it's a discussion board, not a fan club. And precisely because it's a discussion board, both "Yoda is awesome" and "Jar-Jar sucks" posts are out of place. I have made that point many times myself in threads here: if the only real response to your post can be either "YEAH!" or "You're wrong!", you're not trying to have a discussion.

Posts like "Jar-Jar sucks" bother me because they're nothing but drive-by pi**ing, and I'm here for discussion.

Hopefully I don't need to explain why a "Lucas sucks and needs to die" post would bother me. And no, that critic doesn't "have a point," nor does the person who can only post crap like "Jar-Jar sucks."

A discussable criticism would be along the lines of, "The Jedi were too dogmatic and obtuse, and Anakin's turn happened way too quickly." Not sure why such a post would bother anyone, including George Lucas.

 

This line of discussion came about because of Lucas' statement about being yelled at and called a horrible person. MissPadme's quotes were from the official Star Wars Facebook page, not here.

I don't know if Lucas reads these boards or not, although if I had to guess, I'd say he might, given that it's the biggest Star Wars message board out there. He's probably disheartened by some of the posts here, but as I said earlier, this place is friendlier than many other places offering Star Wars discussion.

I don't think "Lucas needs to die" has been posted here, but it's been posted other places, and sent to him directly. The dispute here seems to be whether the fans were harsh on Lucas, and/or whether the anger of some so-called "fans" justified the way they expressed themselves.

I'm sure the statements that have been made here numerous times that Lucas should not have any more to do with his own work, are pretty disheartening for Lucas. But as far as these boards being the majority of the problem, no, they aren't.

 

He did? Do you have the quote in which he flat-out said, "I don't care what the fans think"?

I've seen a lot of statements batted around in which people interpreted his comments that way, but to my knowledge he has never once "clearly stated" that he doesn't care what the fans think.

A refusal to re-release the O-OT does not entail "clearly stating" that he doesn't care what the fans think. With a fandom as large as this one, he can't possibly give every segment of it exactly what they want.

And regardless, a refusal to re-release the O-OT in no way means that he deserves the insults that he has received, the harassment of his children, or death threats. It's not "playing the victim" to acknowledge that these particular "fans" have treated him badly.

 

But sometimes actions speak louder than words. I'm not saying that he "clearly stated" anything regarding the matter, but I'm just throwing it out there that his refusal to do so isn't sending the right message along to the fans.

I may not agree with a lot of his decisions lately or even like aspects of his work, but I will still respect Lucas for what he has given us. For me, that is the O-OT and the childhood I spent enjoying it. Those were truly the "good old days" and that's something I'll always have with me. That's why I continue to fight for their release. It's not because I hate, it's because I love them so much. With that said, I wish Lucas the best of luck with whatever he decides to do.

 

That statement does not even indicate that he doesn't care what the fans think, much less "clearly state" it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the statement you quoted. I wouldn't want my name plastered on a work that I wasn't 100 percent happy with either. Putting out a work for the sole reason that a group demanded it, doesn't make him an artist, it makes him a sellout. I could go down to a mall and film a bunch of people acting like morons, put it on TV, and people would probably watch it--but I certainly wouldn't want my name slapped on such a "work".

I grew up on the O-OT and I certainly think the quality is better than a reality show, but the point is that Lucas wasn't happy with it at all, and "people would pay for it" is not a good enough reason for him to remaster it. Again, nothing wrong with that.

Another example, there were several aspects of Anakin's fall that I didn't like, and the whole "Chosen One" prophecy sets my teeth on edge. Should I take that personally and assume that Lucas doesn't care about me because he didn't write ROTS my way? Or should I simply accept the fact that the story was never mine to begin with?

And all these arguments aside, I'm still waiting for someone to explain why it is somehow acceptable or normal to, as MissPadme said, behave like Annie Wilkes in Misery when Lucas doesn't get one's way where Star Wars is concerned. Anger or disappointment, even years of it, is not an excuse for being an ***hole.

 

We may interpret the quote differently and nobody has to be "wrong" there, but I don't think it's a matter of interpretation that he didn't "clearly state" that he didn't care what the fans think. If he "clearly stated" it, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because a "clearly stated" sentence isn't up for interpretation.

As far as the defenses, name dropping is childish and I'm not going to play, but there are several posts in this thread alone indicating that Lucas should have expected the critics' voices to get "louder and louder" when they didn't get the O-OT, and that Lucas shouldn't "play the victim". No outright defense of the death threats and insults, but an indication that he should have expected them and shouldn't complain about them, isn't much better.