Full Series The Clone Wars - 5.13 - Point of No Return - discussion thread

Love how they made the buzz droids sound exactly the same from ROTS

 

Sure. I would hope the CW writers have access to the entire SW movie sound library.

 

I actually think this was one of the most memorable and enjoyable in the whole series. It's definitely outstanding, brave and creative. Not everything works, some things contradict and it's all very far fetched, but that's Star Wars for you.

It reminds me of 60s/70s adventure yarn serials like Doctor Who (it's bears a pretty good resemblance to a standard Terry Nation script, except it lacks the end of episode cliffhangers). I like how TCW plays with the genre, it's fun to play trope-spotting!

I think a lot of those moaning about it being a 4-parter might enjoy it more when it comes to watching it in a box set marathon. Cue obligatory comments about pressing the skip forward button.

 

Watching this again in any way shape or form would seem too masochistic, sorry.

 

I just rewatched the explosion a second time and it's every bit as effective and amazing as the first time.

In my review I forgot to mention something:

- Didn't think I'd ever see a Mouse Droid team up with a Treadwell Droid and R2-D2 and his Astromech Droids led by a frog-sized Colonel. Best of all, the Mouse Droid managed to helpful to the mission by carrying around things for our heroes.

 

same...i REALLY want it to work.

outside of novels, this is the only material that is either new or new to me right now in the SW universe.

 

Before this arc I would have hated the idea of a Jar Jar arc. However after this absolute atrocity that sounds like great stuff in comparison.

Even though he's annoying, and the fate of the galaxy was granted responsibility to a sentient who said "dellow felegates" and did I mention he's quite annoying...I actually care about Jar Jar's story because despite his many, many undesirable qualities, he was a key clog in the PT and his story might matter in the big picture.

I know not every arc has to affect the grand scheme of things, but this arc was just a waste of time!

Is there any proof that we were supposed to hate Colonel Gascon? Would make sense he opens every episode reverting back to the annoying, ignorant, unintelligent persona he began the previous episode with.

Wanted him to die...i'm terrible./

 

I'm sure that would make him spill his guts rather than shut him up.

 

While not my favorite arc. I really was getting a little torn up over the thought that Anakin might think R2 is gone and something happen to R2 that causes him to be missing for awhile. Though I was also thinking you can't kill R2, he has to live. You can't change my Star Wars like this and then I thought that wouldn't stop them.

 

I just watched this episode, and what a great way to end off a great arc!
-Gascon and WAC were great as usual.
-Great humour to go perfectly with the episode, with the Treadwell Droid trying to get up the step, and Gascon and WAC's quotes.
-Awesome final scene with the Droids escaping, the showdown between R2 and the Super Tactical Droid and the ship explosion.
-The Super Tactical Droid being the main villain of the episode was cool, I like those Droids, though they need to make seem more tougher if they use them again.
-It was sad what happened to BZ
-The Buzz Droids were a great addition, but that many? Still, R2 got to use his oil and flame-thrower again like in ROTS
-The new Droids were alright, pity about the Treadwell Droid, cause he was funny.
Overall I'd give this episode an 8/10.

 

i love your quote.........

however I can't see how you liked Gascon.

 

There you go... Good review, don't let those who disliked rain on your parade.

While I admit these eps weren't as gripping and interesting as some of the others, I did find most of them very fun. I thought Secret Weapons was just OK, but Void was crazy/dark humor/existential fun, MIA was another nice clone trooper study (and just the intro for Gregor, I'm sure), and this one was all fun and payoff for me.

The droid refugees they found were all oddball/funny/sad and this made them cute if you can open your heart to that. Not to mention they are the funny A New Hope droids that are so silly, but awesome and nostalgic to see in a spotlight. I enjoyed seeing them try to pull together and make it out "alive". Poor Treadwell!

Speaking of alive, that is one interesting study of this arc, the droids sort of immortality that was brought up indirectly in Void and seen with R2 this ep. Doesn't make it any less painful for him to get blown up for the umpteenth maybe... and perhaps all the harder given he knows the pain yet keeps facing it again instead of the easy embrace of death...makes his sacrifice even deeper? Oh, do droids feel pain? Well they must when you hear R2 squeal as he gets shot in A New Hope.. Or the power droid getting his feet burned in Jabbas palace.

Well the cool finish to the ep with the buzz droid genocide, BZ's sacrifice --inspired by Gregor mind you-- and then the shuttle escape while R2 kicked butt... All leading to an AMAZING explosion. Very nuanced with the colors, the flash, and then most of all the incredible debris flying and crashing into the station. Best explosion in all of Star Wars!

The eps didn't have anything distinctly unusual for Star Wars droid-wise but just put the focus on them for longer. I think the humor goes with the territory and it didn't always work, but this ep was mainly hitting all the right marks with playing off the classic droid physicality as they had to literally bump each other along to get out of trouble. Definitely warmed to WAC now also with his deadpan zings.

Finishing off with R2's repair and the concern of Anakin felt right. The rest of the D squad coming around to see him was a nice warm fuzzy. While I don't need another droid episode soon, I was able to have fun with this and let the hunks of metal into my heart.

 

My reflections on the arc:
Why?
Filoni stated that the show would focus on bigger arcs, rather than standalone episodes such as Lair of Grievous or Jedi Crash. I can understand the sentiment (I don't agree with it but that's beside the point) of wanting to have character development over action and fun, but how can this arc be justified? No major character has any development; R2 certainly doesn't count as Anakin, Obi, Ahsoka or Rex. This could have and should have been relegated to a single episode or a duo, if made at all. Such a complete and utter failure, and such an unnecessary one. Imagine if this arc focused instead on Ki-Adi Mundi or Stass Allie or San Hill or Cad Bane or a Yularen. I just don't understand why such garbage has four episode dedicated to it. To say I'm at a loss is an understatement.

 

Standalone episodes like Lair of Grievous are perfect.

No major characters in this arc made even better.

But I agree that this arc would have been a 10000000000000000000000 times more awesome if it had San Hill in it.

 

But, but, but...what about the greatness of Borkus?

 

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I loved how Gascon used the quote "It's a trap!" as well. I've noticed quite a bit of the OT sneaking it's way into this arc, but in this episode it had that quote, the Mouse, Gonk and Treadwell Droids and Tarkin in command, plus there's probably more too.

 

Then you have poor taste in cartoons(read: too much anime). Warner Brothers slapstick is not outdated. It only appears outdated when done badly. Which this show manages to pull off spectacularly. Humor requires strong comedic timing and a script to back it up. Clone Wars has neither of these things. For all the talk of tremendous animation, I keep seeing it being put into all the wrong places. We have magnificent explosions, but characters still move like marionettes out of a Thunderbirds episode. We have massive scale combat sequences, and facial animations that were rigged by a person with Parkinson's disease. Everything is "faster, more intense", but falls apart under closer scrutiny.

Rather than play to the show's strengths (the ability to portray large scale setpieces in creative environments where visuals tell the story), we instead get a dialogue heavy four part arc that leaves us stranded on a featureless desert with a group of utterly unlikeable characters and disposable side characters who might actually be interesting. (Gregor, Echo, 99, Argyus,)

It's not so much about how audiences are ignorant morons who don't appreciate "outdated" humor, it's that the humor on display sucks and is failing at its attempts to emulate the people who did it right in the first place.

 

Also, I'm beginning to wonder if these serialized arcs are part of a plan by Lucasfilm to keep the show on the air longer. You want to know why Deep Space Nine isn't on TV anymore, while Space routinely plays a three hour block of TOS, Next Generation and Voyager every day? It's because Deep Space Nine became serialized in Season 6, where it really caught it's stride with taking on the Dominion War plot that ran throughout the final two seasons.

This allowed the show to achieve high ratings and viewership numbers during its initial run, since people would keep tuning in each week to see what happens next, just like old movie serials were played at Drive Ins to entice people to see crappy movies just to continue the serial. It's great for keeping their attention, but it's a nightmare if you want to get your show syndicated.

That's why you don't see DS9 on air anymore. It's too heavily invested in these long, multi episode plotlines that the average joe just tuning in won't get it. They have no context for what the hell is happening, why Kira is suddenly a Federation Colonel and Dukat is looking more like a Bajoran than a Cardassian. They could just throw on an episode of Next Generation and have everything resolved in forty five minutes, no loose ends.

I have a feeling the same thing is happening with TCW, only this time it is being used as a crutch to stay on air. They want to keep the show running as long as they can, but once it reaches syndication, these arcs are going to kill it, since people won't know what the hell is happening. Or they are banking so heavily on the "it's star wars, they'll always watch it" angle, well, best of luck to them. Didn't work for DS9, and it won't work here. And DS9 had MUCH better writers.

 

Darth_Zandalor
DS9 was a show for teenagers and adults, a (fairly) Hard SF show that spoke about religion, raising children in a single family, etc.

SW;TCW is an action cartoon for children.

 

Looney Tunes still cracks me up. If that's what TCW is going for with the droids (especially the battle droids), they are failing miserably.

It's part of TCW's effort to please everyone that results in terribly inconsistent style and direction. One thing I agree with Seerow on is that they should definitely cut it out.

 

Which is why we have suicide bombers, poisoned tea and plotlines about a string of political murders culminating in a speech about how the war is having an impact on the homefront.

Just a movie for kids right?

 

I don't know if that's why DS9 isn't on the air anymore. Voyager and DS9 were syndicated through Spike for awhile. They kept getting pushed back to later and later time slots to about 1:00 am before they dropped DS9. Voyager was around for a little longer and they used to show like 2 episodes a day, 5 days a week and then it just kept becoming more and more random, like one day a week or one episode every other week at different times.

It's been a year or so, but last time I actually browsed the guide for a Voyager episode it was really sporadic. There wouldn't be one for months and then abruptly there would be two episodes in one week shown out of order. I don't know if it's still on Spike or not.

Enterprise keeps getting picked up though. It was on HDnet, and then SyFy (I don't know if they're still showing it). Then also CBS.com has Enterprise, TAS and TOS online for free, but not TNG, Voyager or DS9. Enterprise I think is even getting a blu-ray before DS9 and Voyager, despite being regarded as the worst Trek series (aside: I still like it).

Voyager and DS9 just seem like they're habitually forgotten about/pushed aside.