Sell a D6 fan on SAGA Star Wars please.

Hey guys,

I'm a huge fan of Star Wars D6 and briefly bought a lot of books made for the D20 System but dumped the Star Wars game line after it switched to Saga. Honestly, I did it because I thought the books were weird looking in shape. Now, I'm interested in knowing what is the merits of the SAGA system and whether or not I should use it.

Please tell me, fans of this system, what's the advantages of picking up SAGA books.

 

SAGA, what can I say.

I prefer D6 myself, but let's see...

Saga gets rid of the VP/WP system which makes sense to me. Using the Force shouldn't pose a danger to your health, just as a Tech Specialist creating a weapon doesn't end up at death's door.

The skills system needed simplifying and is more simplified, but still takes just as much faffing around with as it did previously, IMO.

The general 'Use the Force' skill is pretty useful, covering basic Control/Sense/Alter, but on the other hand, it lumps Control, Sense & Alter together with no separate learning curve which is the one thing I love about D6 and even RCR.

This can go either way, as right away it gives Level 1 Jedi PC's the ability to perform minor Force powers, but on the other hand it takes away the 'fledgling Force user' group of characters, who perhaps have only been trained in Sense & Alter, for instance.

With the skill system the way it is, you no longer necessarily need a dedicated speaker/fixer/pilot as your heroes skills will be on a standard level with eachother. Pretty good, but not as skilled as someone who's trained in it for their whole life. This really helps (I think) reflect what's gone on in the EU with Jacen suddenly being a good pilot, along with Tahiri and other Jedi in the NJO (whether the RPG should be made to fit the EU or whether EU authors should use a wider range of characters, you decide).

Feats and Talents are much of a muchness, there is a hell of a lot of choice with them, almost too much, but they are there for increased character customisation.

I'd love to see more conversion of existing EU equipment, however odd and esoteric.

 

I prefer d20, so can't help

 

I haven't had a chance to play yet, but I did purchase and read over the Saga Core Rule Book and so far I'm entranced. I like the mechanics from what I've read so far but more importantly I really like that there is so much material for Saga. I've been waiting to do a Dark Times campaign and now with supplements like The Force Unleashed Campaign Setting, Starships of and Threats of the Galaxy and Wizards' Dawn of Defiance Campaign I can do exactly that, mixing and matching as I please. Don't know if that's reason enough for you, but I'm impressed at having such a lengthy, epic canned adventure that I can mold/build on so freely without having to build the basic framework myself. Not saying that's for everyone, but it lets me play/GM and still have time for luxuries like working and sleeping

 

Oh, not another D6 vs D20 hash...

um, well...
Actually, I have nothing further to say on this matter beyond what has been beaten to death in other threads.

 

Sorry, buddy, I'm a die-hard D6 fan. As far as I was concerned, I didn't think they could do worse than D20 Star Wars, and then Sage proved me wrong. I read some of the books for background info, but I'd NEVER play Saga if I could at all help it.

 

To be fair not everyone has been around for those discussions As long as it's civil I don't care.

On the actual discussion I don't have too much to add. For me the Saga looks more like the Miniatures game which I'm very familiar with, so that's a plus for me. Never played the d6 version though so I can't compare the two. All the new source material is out for Saga so that's what I'd gravitate to.

 

Well, what´s the good thing about Saga Edition? It´s simple. Really simple.

d6 had it´s cinematic style and everything and had great sourcebooks. I loved it and as I am old enough to be sentimental, I´ll always will think characters in d6 stats. But it had a backdraw. When people pecame powerful, really powerful, you had the "dice-bucket-syndrome". A guy fighting 22 d6 in lightsaber combat using a forcepoint? The fast and easy d6 system suddenly turns into a slow and painful thing. There were several solutions to this, but acutally . . .

d20 made it easier to deal with high-power characters. As their modifiers were great, but always a dice of twenty sides on top of it. It made the force an exhaustive power that also was bad for your health. Stupid. And it was very singular when it came to learning. If you let players do free learning they could turn out to be guys who could lift star destryoers, but wouldn´t feel a panet full of Jedi Masters explode next to them. Every single use of the force one stat was . . . complicated. And you had realism problems when players could not do certain things every Jedi in the movies could.

Saga Edition changed that. It has the Usetheforce skill. Which deals with the basic stuff. It lacks the distinction made by WEG once and therefore has a single drawback: ALL CHARACTERS WHO ARE POWERFUL are quite much THE SAME. Then again, that isn´t so different from what we have seen in the movies. It deals relatively easy with characters of high levels. No buckets of dices. Loads of opportunities. But sacrifices lots of complexity for it. It does sourcebooks that read like expanded handbooks of the franchises they have. Creativity is rather low with them. But they deliver EU. In tons.

That´s my six cents

 

I will say that as a first-time GM having to teach other players the game, I have not found it difficult at all. I picked up a WEG sourcebopok the other day and I was WTH?

 

Charles, I'm an avid, old-school roleplayer... and I don't care for the D6 or D20 systems. But I do like Star Wars, and frankly the SAGA books have been much, much better than the earlier D20 WOTC books. While somewhat expensive, they are well made and on par with WEG for the amount of data.
I realize that might not be the most helpful insight , but honestly? I'm sure somewhere online there's someone who's worked out decent conversions from D20 to D6 and I'd get the books (other than the core) and adapt them... because we know the likelihood of WOTC ever supporting D6 or handing the license over to someone else who would is exactly nil, and some of the old WEG crew did move over so you still have the tie-ins with the old system.

 

Conversion from D6 to D20 RCE

D20 RCE to Saga Edition


I used these for the CSA and Darksrtyder books. I wish WOTC would just print updated SE versions, though .

 

Dave told me there used to be a website where you could convert d6 to d20, but that was before the guy who was running it helped with the Saga edition. I borrowed a WEG book for reference, but the ONLY think that I can get out of it is the equipment list, which is to some extent a bit more extensive than what saga has right now.

 

I'd say the system's simplicity is its strong point, also. I briefly had an RCR rulebook, and was utterly lost, whereas Saga is quite straightforward.

I've a handful of quibbles, but nothing I can't live with. I still think that Jedi characters should start with a larger set of class skills, but that's easy enough to get around - start the character as a scout, scoundrel, soldier or noble, then multiclass into Jedi.

 

I can't see any reason for a D6 fan to move to Saga. The only thing it's got going for it is that it's still being published. But since you can go to the Rancor Pit and get D6 conversions of every single d20 and Saga stats ever released, I see no point in migrating to an oversimplified, artificial system that feels more like a video-game. You can buy the new books for the fluff and use the converted stats.

 

While I dearly love D6 SW and have a huge collection of books Saga is just easier to play and get people into. The only role playing math required is when you first create a character or go up a level, skill usage and combat is accomplished with a D20 (damage requires a few more RP dice). The vehicle systems is also much easier to use since vehicles use the same mechanics as characters. The unified mechanic for everything is really helpful for new players.

For experienced players the simplicity of the SE system help keeps the game moving and lets you focus a bit more on the story rather than dice rolls. You can pretty easily par down a character sheet to stats required for miniature rules and then do all of your combat that way. Since miniatures and the normal system use the same mechanics there's no conversion involved. Again this makes for fast paced system for experienced players. I happen to like the talent trees for character customization. Between prestige classes (and their talent trees) you can end up with very unique characters. You can focus on a single area and specialize in something or round your character out as a jack of all trades.

 

I thought the only weakness of d6 (the many dices when guys become powerful) have been countered by the online-dice-throwers.

 

one real quick opinion. The new saga books are basically developed by a guy named Rodney Thompson, who has gamed in the WEG and previous d20 systems, he even got a start writing on a fan based star wars rpg site many years back, I heard an interview with him. In his interview he said that his star wars reference library is chock full of the old west end books and he is influenced by them when writing material. (don't quote me on that, but that was what I had taken with me from his interview. I may have to go listen to it again.)

As far as the system goes ,I have heard good and bad about it, but the most common thing I have heard is that it places some ambiguity in areas that is left to GM discretion. My interpretation of this is that you can run the type of game you want to without being held down by rules. It can be cinematic or realistic. however you want to play it, I really like the concept of destiny. Each character can have a destiny to fulfill and there are in game bonuses for making choices toward completing your destiny.

I seem to remember also a little detail from the WEG game when I ran it many years back. It seemed that the Jedi were really overpowered almost to a fault, I might remembering it incorrectly because it has been several years since I have played that system.

I am going to have my first saga game very soon, and I will give you a better assessment after my first session, right now I am basing my opinion off of other star wars rpg fans who have voiced there opinions and love or hate of the system.

ok.. not a real quick opinion. lol

 

Almost any gave can be run as tight or loose as you want to. WEG D6 was probablly one of the most "down & dirty" systems arround, however.
I like it.

I ran D&D, Heroes/Champions, and other systems for years, spending 3-5 hours of prep per session.
My D6 prep seldom lasts more than 30 minutes.

 

I heard that if you play d6 you are more prone to herpes

 

yeah i can agree with that statement. I know that saga is made on the kiss principle (keep it simple stupid) And as far as prep goes, I have no idea because it always takes me a year and a day to prep for a game, no matter what the system. I like simple mechanics game, I like the rp aspect and sometimes the rules get in the way anyway. but like i said i actually have not played the Saga game yet, so don't get me wrong, the d6 was a great system, i just really like new ideas and concepts and the learn and improve as you develop approach.

do you still run games currently Koohii?

 

Only D6 star wars.

Still play other games, but only run that one.

 

The thing that I like about SAGA, like what was mentioned before, is that the VP/WP system is now out completely and replaced with HP and a condition track that determines whether you are conscious or not and how your stats are affected by your conditions at the present time in the campaign. The addition of Destiny Points, I think, is a wonderful piece of storyline plot as it is only plausible when the player and the GM have agreed on a destiny for the character in question. Thus a PC cannot have a Destiny Point without a defined destiny. Also, these destinies can expand once they have been achieved. Its great stuff there.

Now like mentioned before, the skills have been modified a bit. the Force skills have been condensed into the Use the Force skill-A WONDERFUL MOVE-. Like 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons, there is a single skill for "Listen, Search, and Spot"(Perception) and for "Tumble as well as other related checks"(Acrobatics). (Stealth) is used for what used to be "Move Silently and Slight of Hand as well as other related checks". The skills have become more generalized in that sense. Skill point have also been done away with. In their place are a list of Class Skills for each class and each class has a specific ratio of skills that they can be trained in at 1st level (based on class+INT MOD). At later times they can be trained in new skills at a +5 to the skill for being trained (all Class Skills recieve a standard +5 trained bonus) + 1/2 their level added to the skill as a modifier in addition to any bonuses the PC might have already due to Species or feats.

Also, if you're into World of Warcraft then you'll like this feature-TALENT TREES-every Class has them. Not just one either, but at least 3 and they allow your PC to become an individual within the party. i.e.: 2 Soldiers can now be completely different in regards to their skills and granted abilities rather than just scores and equipment; or 1 Noble can specialize in gaining wealth and contacts while another focuses on bolstering the party and its ability to fight and defend itself in any encounter-ANOTHER WONDERFUL MOVE-.

Then there is the matter of condensing the Classes that occured within this Edition. As before mentioned, the 3 classes of Jedi are now stirred into 1 class with seperate Talent trees that represent the 3 different types of Jedi: Guardian, Consular, Sentinel. Also, the class knwon as Force Adept has been made into a Prestige Class and combined with the Darkside Devotee (the Devotee was made into a Talent tree) and the rank of Jedi Knight has been Prestiged as well and granted a great many talent trees to choose from. And lastly the Prestige Classes of Sith Apprentice and Sith Lord were added to the Core Handbook.

Beyond that which I have mentioned, I can't think of anything more that I can say about it. I hope I explained it well enough, but I do understand that I have entered the discussion a bit late so you probably have loads of information on it by now. I just thought this would be a good way to get myself heard and possibly help someone else out in some way.

Ttyal