Amph Spike Lee's Oldboy remake

Kingdom of Heaven has its problems, but Ed Norton isn't one of them. Unless the Wock is purposefully trolling all of us by confusing Orlando with Norton, in which case, well, I dunno what to say

EDIT: Also, this movie takes the exact same plot of the original, minus the octopus, and just goes, "Style? Never heard of it."

 

I really wish someone would explain what they enjoyed about Kingdom of Heaven. There are movies like Avengers, where in spite of thinking it a pretty terrible effort, I can at least spot some of the things that attracted the people who enjoy it. Here though, I'm really at a loss.

 

The good news, then, is that there's something called "opinion," and it can differ wildly amongst individuals.

Everything about the Oldboy remake seems designed to draw in would-be doubters, and yet it just doesn't seem to have the visual flair of the original. The hammer fight - how do you that justice with anything other than a shot-for-shot recreation?

 

. . .

I'm pretty sure I already conceded that? It was the point of my Avengers remark. I can understand differences of opinion, and also know that they are not usually the result of consistent difference in judgment about every single aspect of the entire film in uniform fashion. Instead, they come down to particular moments or elements, the weight a viewer gives them, and the personal reaction he or she has to them. What I'm trying to say is that I don't know which moments or aspects of the film Kingdom of Heaven cause fans to like it.

 

You conceded a movie can be bad but have redeeming qualities, or at least be likeable in spite of the badness, or at least that's how I read your post.

Regardless, if you want to talk about Kingdom of Heaven, I would recommend a thread other than the Oldboy remake thread, which is the point I feel you should be taking away from this.

 

I'm still keen to hear what crack Arwen was smoking Arwen was thinking with this remark since it bears precisely no relationship to any reality ever.

 

I'm going to spend way more time on this than I should. But let's look at what I actually said.

Note that I never, at any point, tried to claim that there was any objective judgment to be made about the film. I started out by discussing what I thought, and then moved to what people who enjoyed it thought. I never said I enjoyed the things they enjoyed. I said I could tell what they were. Nor did I say the movie was terrible, I only said it is what I thought about it.

The comment had nothing to do with "redeeming qualities" at all. For instance, I'm aware that some people like that film for finally having a fun, heroic depiction of the Hulk, and I know that many others liked the humor. In fact, I thought the treatment of Hulk was one of the most problematic part of this film. I think it created huge plot holes, and even if it hadn't, I feel their approach undermined the Jekyll/Hyde nature that is supposed to be central to the character's original concept. Similarly, I thought the humor at best was used to substitute for issues that deserved more serious treatment, and at worst actually created new problems with the story. This is not about me finding these things to be "redeeming." I hated them. I just recognize that others didn't.

I have definite opinions about all these films, and I was expressing those opinions with some snark. But I wasn't trying to claim that other people couldn't have opinions, or that those opinions weren't valid. Nor is it ever really my inclination to do so.

 

Wocky, my inclination is to get the Oldboy thread to stop talking about things not Oldboy.

 

If Will Smith was in this remake, it would be even worse.

 

Will Smith was going to be in it, and it was going to be directed by Steven Spielberg too because that's not utterly random or bizarre enough.

 

Flawed as some of Spike Lee's old movies are, I kinda wish he was still making those impassioned screeds he used to make. I mean, it would be better than this. Bamboozled would be better than this. I mean, he could be kind of obnoxious sometimes, but at least he was obviously doing something really personal that he was passionate about. This is just like hackwork.