The Ben Skywalker Appreciation Party

Yup, and December won't come soon enough!!!!!

I'm just glad that's my birthday month so I can probably get someone in my family to get that for me for my birthday/Christmas!!!!!!

 

okay but how about the pure numbers game. i mean luke and 200 jedi cannot defeat thousands of sith. that is not relaistic. i think maybe they could take out maybe 800 at best

 

We ARE talking about Luke here- the guy who once took down maybe four, five dozen Vong IN A MATTER OF SECONDS (see Invasion- the Vong blow in the blast door, and King Caled and co. are all ready for an epic final stand- but between the Vong blowing in the blast door and the dust settling enough for King Caled and co. to see, it's just Luke amid a field of dead Vong warriors), right?

Just checking.

 

And with ben walking in his footsteps.... Lets agree on one thing. If there's a battle, It'll be epic.

 

Oh, no doubt. A thing of beauty as Luke and the NJO monkeystomp a bunch of dirty Hillbilly Sith.

 

Hillbilly Sith. Is that a racist statement? Can u be racist against a fictional race? Hahahahaha

 

Seriously- they're a bunch of hicks from a backwater planet that have been out of the loop for five millenia, and their culture is totally diluted and inbred compared to your average Sith Order, even if the Sith of the Tribe haven't actually engaged in LITERAL inbreeding. They're the Country Bumpkins of the Dark Side.

I mean, what else do you want me to call them?

 

But the females by description are pretty dang good looking... Would you mind so much?

 

Considering there were only a couple hundred (if that) human survivors on the Omen, I'd be shocked if the Appalachian spirit didn't get into them relatively frequently.

 

That's a very, very valid point- and just makes the Hillbilly Sith connection even FUNNIER!

 

Okay, that just made me spew my diet coke.

 

He has a habit of doing that. You should see his attack on the senate.

 

i think my point is very valid. vestara will be one of the most powerful sith ever eventually. there are at least 13 ( the high council of twelve plus their leader). sith that are kyp level, maybe better. let alone thousands of others. the only thing that keeps them from doing it is that they would lose 3/4 of their tribe in such a battle. Ben did a decent job against vestara's dad, but that does not mean he would have won. if you notice they are over powering ben right now. her was nothing a few years ago now he is super powerful?? cmon.

 

In my opinion I think Vestara is the top end of force users in her tribe. She was the who could see through Abeloth's disguise and Ship went right to her. Wasn't Lady Rhea a member of the high council, I'm not sure I would be so confident in their abilities (Then again I can't recall off the top of my head and wookeepidia give two contradictory answers). At this point I'm not sure anything, aside from thousands of Sith, could heal the rift between the GA and the Jedi.

As for Ben, well I think you might be underestimating him. Didn't Luke go from meh to marginally super awesome in the coarse of about two years as well with relatively little formal training. Actually that seems to be a trend with Skywalker males. Anakin had to play catch for decade (maybe more like 7 years) of training he missed. Luke, well enough said there. Finally Ben was in kind of the same boat as his grandfather training wise.

Unlike the the glorious Solo children who were trained since infancy. What I'm just sayin.

 

yeah it just seems really quick. ben could not make his dad even use his lightsaber in lotf, and in two short years he is very powerful. seems a little soon. even by skywalker standards. ben seems like he is as powerful as luke skywalker in the thrawn trilogy. how many years was it from A new hope to the thrawn trilogy? like 7 years?

 

I think thats the point. I mean I think they are trying to say "look how much force potential Ben has, he's already so and so powerful, and at an earlier age than his father or grandfather. He's gona do amazing things in the future." Or something along those lines...

 

I'd actually have to dsiagree on FOTJ Ben = TTT Luke. Taking SotE and TaB into account, I'd say the Luke of the immediate timeframe of Return of the Jedi could give him a real run for his money. Of course, we're talking the Luke who flat-out overpowered Darth kriffing Vader and also beat Guri (an assassin droid who once slaughtered two of the greatest martial artists in the Galaxy at once AND with SUPREME ease) in hand-to-hand combat. Then there were all those things Luke did in TaB while still suffering the aftereffects of Palpy's "Fry-the-Skywalker-while-cackling" routine... I find it odd that people so readily underestimate the Luke as of ROTJ's immediate time frame when the EU is taken into account. He was nothing to sneeze at back then, and even a Vader fanboy such as myself has to admit Luke overpowered him.

I'd put Ben roughly there, maybe slightly lower, but that's only because I have a particularly high opinion of Darth Vader, so putting Ben as roughly equivalent to the Luke that finally stopped Vader is CONSIDERABLY high praise on my part.

 

Again I agree Ben has vastly improved between LotF and FotJ, I don't think it was unreasonable. I guess part of my reasoning for it is Ben had Luke, and an entire Jedi Order, to help him and give guidance. Not to mention the fact that he went through a lot through LotF. Besides Luke was in an anything Jason related hating mood in that book, so it might not have been the fairest assessment of Ben.

It seem somewhat problematic making these specific Luke comparisons. I mean we really don't have a good baseline for what the rank and file Lost Tribe Sith's skill is (I think the Dathomiri had this inflicted on them in Backlash), especially Gavar Khai. In Backlash Ben and Stadd were taking sith (presumably sabers) down left and right. I find their abilities as a whole questionable when marginally Force sensitive #8, literally from off the streets, can them down.

Also, I don't really recall Luke dominating anything in the fight in RotJ until Vader starts talking **** about Leia, and his reaction wasn't exactly what Jedi wpuld consider acceptable.

 

The thing is, Luke was actively trying NOT to fight the whole time. Yes, his berserker barrage is not really a good thing to point to for a Jedi, but the fact remains that Luke's skill had increased so dramatically in the mere year between The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi that he could engage and DISengage from Vader at will.

This is a key point- on Bespin, Vader was toying with him, and each time Luke surprised him, Vader replied by ramping up his threat level.

Luke gets in that kick, Vader replies with the sneak attack followed by the TK barrage.
When Luke actually strikes Vader's shoulder, the sheer one-sidedness of the duel ramps up to the Nth degree, showing you JUST how much Vader'd been holding back until that point- seriously, Luke's lucky Vader held back enough to not kill him because at this point it becomes blatantly obvious that he could have done so all along, and the only reason Luke got those two hits in was because Vader wanted to turn him, not kill him. Up until then, Luke had at least been able to fake keeping up with Vader due to this holding back, but once he gets that hit in, Vader's no longer playing around and, now SUPREMELY pissed off, simply and brutally beats his son down in one of the most entertainingly one-sided displays in the Saga.

On board the second Death Star, though only a year has passed and Luke has had no additional formal training, his skill has come to the point that even before he taps the dark side during that berserker barrage, he is CLEARLY dueling Vader on even footing. VADER'S the one struggling to keep up with LUKE, and Luke's not even TRYING to fight him at that point.

Now, to bring this more on-topic with Ben, the fact that Luke could, in a single year and with only an old book left by Obi-Wan Kenobi and what he'd already learned from Yoda as a guide, go from the man who Vader could toy with and brutally beat down with ease to the man who could duel Darth Kriffing Vader, THE greatest Jedi-killer OF ALL TIME on MORE than even footing, and temporarily blocked Palpatine's Force Lightning (as per the ROTJ novel, Luke DOES manage to hold back Palpy's lightning with his bare hands for a few seconds before he's overwhelmed by the sheer power of Palpy's attack), means that Ben making that much progress in TWO years, with his father and Force knows HOW many other Masters to guide him is really not all that hard to believe.

Skywalkers DO learn that fast. Really, if you're going to complain about something being unrealistic, complain about the ludicrous difference between TESB Luke and SOTE/ROTJ/TAB Luke. They're worlds apart, with only a year's time and some self-training differing between them.

 

I'm totally hating this intellectual discussion. normally it would be fine, but I'm tired. I'd rather have a discussion consisting of:

"Ben is the greatest!!!"

"Not quite! Others are still better!!!"

"Ben is TOTALLY THE GREATEST!!!"

"Dang it! You're insistent aren't you?"

"YES!!!"

"Dude, stop shouting."

"...okay."

 

i wasn't really complaining. just noticing. i still think vader held back in rotj. he did not even use telekenesis on luke that time, and it was effective the first time. vader was holding back some because it's his son. remember, luke did not try to redeem vader in esb, so thats your difference in vader explained. luke got to vader, when luke said there was still good in him. it just took time to manifest

 

I know some of this is directed towards me, just not sure how much. So I guess I'll just follow the sage advice in your sig.

Well no, Luke during the first half of the fight Luke was so high off his own power and visions of grandeur (getting to follow the emperor on some damn fool crusade, then killing him) that he has no idea what he is doing. The novelization isn't even shy enough to hide the fact that he is actively thinking of killing his father. As for Vader he was so busy being proud of how much Luke had improved, and how great it would when they ruled the galaxy together, that he couldn't be bother with focusing on the fight completely. More to the point he was trying to turn Luke, not kill him. After the Emperor encourages him, Luke finally figured out the game and decided to stop playing. Then, well, we've all seen the movie, he hides then goes berserk.
.

I pretty much agree with everything here about Ben.

 

Ben is the greatest...


Next to Luke.

 

Sorry to bring this back to the argument that FOTJ Ben is more like ROTJ Luke, but something very interesting in that regard has been brought to my attention. Remember Guri? How the Luke of the immediate timeframe of ROTJ managed to beat her one-on-one in hand-to-hand?

Well, turns out that Jaina as of the NJO couldn't replicate that feat. Having never gotten to read the Force Heretic books, I only have this on second-hand, but apparently Jaina fought an HRD in hand-to-hand and just couldn't stack up to the feat her Uncle had done as a not-quite-yet-a-Knight in Shadows of the Empire.

And yet nobody says NJO JAINA is anything less than a fully-fledged Knight. Seriously, ROTJ Luke is just chronically underestimated, hence why I stand by my argument that equating Ben as of Fate of the Jedi with his father as of ROTJ isn't dismissing how powerful he is. ROTJ Luke is, apparently, > NJO Jaina by some degree. So in essence, I'm saying Ben is currently more powerful than Jaina was during the NJO, too.

Remember, this is what happens when you underestimate ROTJ Luke. You don't realize how huge a compliment it is to be compared to him.

 

Makes perfect sense to me.