Legacy #1 (pre-release discussion)

Except, in the movie, its clear George Lucas intended for Darth Vader to hunt down Jedi. It's against canon Yoda and Obi Wan were the only survivors and sorta ridiculous to begin with. The movies are against it, the EU....I mean what would give one the impression EVEN FROM THE ORIGINAL MOVIES that?

"helped the Emperor hunt down and destroy the Jedi."

Entering into a Temple is not hunting down. It's more like shooting fish in a barrel.

he even had Yoda and Ben ACKNOWLEDGE there were other Jedi with the whole Transciever thing.

I mean, seriously...

Also, since when has a Tank Explosion killed anyone? Jedi survive stuff like that all the time.

 

Forget Jedi.. I know people in REAL LIFE who have survived explosions and bieng shot multiple times.. Iraq.. a buddy of mine in the Marines was riding in the Humvee (before they got the better doors and armour) ran over a 120mm artillery shell IED, lived.. hell wasnt even hardly hurt.. explosion blew him clear of the vehicle. A County Sheriff I ride with was shot in the head.. point blank with a .357 magnum.. didnt pentrate bounced right off.. something about the angle it hit him.. true story. SAME GUY (the sheriff) was involved in a shootout with several perps.. hit approximately 12 times (dont remember the exact number it was between 10-15) with various small arms fire.. lived..

Whats the point you ask..

Well getting shot/blown up doesnt kill normal people in real life most of the time. (the blood loss resulting usually does it) I dont see why it should in fantasy either.. never mind the whole "suspension of disbelief" thing.

 

I said every Jedi who was with the GAR at the time of Order 66, not every Jedi. Many Jedi were on solo missions for the army, private missions for the Order itself, and of course, there were many Jedi who had left the Order. So this would by no means kill every Jedi, just the vast, vast majority of them.

And Jedi survive that sort of thing when they're given a moment to react to it. The whole point of Order 66 was that in most cases, that moment didn't exist. Basically, when he got shot, he was simply standing there, not bracing himself, not jumping away, not anything. He wasn't wearing armor or anything; he was standing, alone and unprotected, on a tank which was blown up (i.e. massive pieces of shrapnel sent flying while Quinny's at Ground Zero) by a massive blast of heat. And THEN he wasn't found by the clones who would have been searching, and THEN he kills a whole bunch of them while he's wounded so badly that he shouldn't even be be able to run, let alone dodge or attack people, and THEN he gets shot in the stomach at point-blank range, and THEN somehow manages to drag himself through hostile territory to a ship which gets him off-planet which lets him heal at some unspecified place. Heck, I'd be skeptical if this was Luke or Anakin we were talking about here.

And, of course, I disagree that this was the better ending to Quin's story, so I'm obviously biased in that direction. But I don't think ROTS really needed any counterpoints to lighten the mood; the mood was light enough already. I believe that Quin's story would be more poignant if he'd just died along with everyone else.

 

I don't think so really.

Mostly because I think Quinlan should survive to die at Vader's hands.

If Aalya had lived then Quinlan could have died but she didn't, so he had to live to provide us an anchor for the Purge period.

 

Quin makes a great renegade. Ghost is to this day one of my favorite Tales stories.

 

Exactly Ghost is too awesome not the be canon.

 

I'm agreeing with Rohniss 100%.

 

Ghost could have been canon even if Quin had died. You know, like the title?

My problem with Quin surviving was the execution (so to speak). First, there's the surviving a direct cannon hit that exploded the tank he was standing on, which is pretty iffy, but that's been covered. So going with that, Quin goes through his trip down memory lane, he goes through his brief desire for revenge, he records his last memories, and at last he comes to peace with himself and his role. He know what he must do, he is finally one with the Force, and in a noble act of self-sacrifice he kills Faie, seeming at the cost of his own life. Then Villie comes along, has his own (seeming) little goodbye, and I get a speck of dust in my eye. What a nice ending; Quin was finally at peace and made the ultimate gesture. Then we go to the group of Jedi and Khaleen, and we get our little epilogue. Everything's wrapping up nicely.

And then Quin suddenly pops up and says "Hey guys, I'm really alive! Bet you thought I was dead, huh?" And I go, "Wait, what?" No offense to John, but it just felt contrived and cheap. Quin surviving on its own wouldn't have been a problem, but the fact that the entire comic was a completion of his arc ending in his final realization of what he must do and his apparent death, only to have it all deus ex machinaed away with a perfunctory explanation did. Now, I know what someone might respond: the fact that he survived doesn't change or erase what he did. No, but it does cheapen the effect of it. Imagine if ROTJ went exactly as it did, right up to Vader's last words and Luke taking off from the DSII. Then when he gets down to Endor, he walks out of the shuttle, followed by Anakin behind him who says "Hey, guys, I'm still alive!" Wouldn't that feel manipulative? Why even pretend to kill him if you're just going to say "LOL PRANKED" in a few pages?

 

I have the hunch the Quinlan is surviving only so that Vader can slice and dice him at a latter date, mind you.

 

For a thread about Legacy, there's an awful lot of talk about Quin.<g>

I can give you some my rationale (and I will below) but it comes down to whether or not it works for you or not. If you don't buy it now, I doubt you'll buy my explanation. But for the record. . .

The shot that hit the tank hit at the back and Quin's on the front, on the turret. The explosion picks him up and throws him into the forest (we established in the story that he was checking over there before hand, as I recall). The clones ARE looking for him and, once he comes to, he thinks that enemy forces, not his own troops, attacked him. He quickly figures it out. He's badly hurt, not only from what we see but inside. The fact that he can move at all is because of his drawing on the Force and that won't sustain him long. At first, he wants to escape and kill the Sith responsible but he has to give that up. Simply not possible.

He WOULD have died at the end if Villie had not found him. His wounds would have finished him. Villie finds a way to get him off planet; Quin's in a deep healing meditation with such medical help as Villie can get at hand. Villie gets him to better medical help. The epilogue happens several months later.

That's my explanation. Gang, maybe it works for you or maybe it doesn't but I'm really not going to argue it. Everything we did, including saving Quin, was cleared with LFL. They wanted it to seem at least reasonable he might survive getting blown up with the tank and they felt it was. If he has been shot like Aayla I would have said no way.

If you still feel Quin should have died on the tank or by the end of the story, okay. That's your preference. I'm just saying both Jan and I considered it very carefully. The suggestion was made that we "whimped out". All i'm saying is that we thought it all through and had reasons for making the choice we did. It doesn't involve not being able to kill off fave characters -- I've done it a lot in my career.

Work for you on those terms?

-- John

 

Considering I was 100% convinced he was going to die before Villie showed up, I was happier than a pig in $#!+ that he lived, as did his kid.

 

Getting a little bit on topic, I know this might be a daft, already answered question....BUT John/Jan:

Is Cade the last Skywalker? Or are there other Skywalkers around the time of 140 ABY?

I'm also a little curious as to what has happened to Cade's Solo cousins too, and why there is no mention of them.

Sorry if I'm asking questions which have been asked before.

 

You'll probably have to wait until the comic actaully comes out to have any of those questions answered

 

I did realise that but hey I felt like asking. Like most I'm impatient to get my hands on this, besides no offence to the heroes we've all grown up with but I'll be glad to be free of the shackles of the big three and their irritating children.
Cade Skywalker and the this series represents what I want from the EU, something different in terms of story and period.
And realistically they don't need to make loads of stories about him until they can kill him off and follow someone else
Which was a major problem with writing any EU on Luke, Leia and Han IMHO.

 

Couple of notes on Quin then on to Legacy--

Quin did not get shot point blank in the stomach by Faie. I chose that angle to make you all THINK he was being wasted, but the intention was that the shot wounded him. He would have died if Villied had not found him.

Please, don't accuse John of wimping out. He has killed more comic book characters than I can name-- many of them favorites. He would have killed Aayla in Twilight if not for my daughter convincing him not to. Zao would have been toast in Darkness, but we were asked not to kill him. I'm always on John's case because he's always having me create characters who he kills in a page or two. Weighing both possibilites of Quin's fate, one of the things I considered is why I went back to see ANH over and over again. It was because it was uplifting and made me feel hopeful about the future. I love the prequels for other reasons, but I still love the quality of hope in the OT. Something we could do with more of these days.

Now--Legacy. I'm impatient for you guys to see what we've got planned too. I'm adding the finishing touches to Legacy 0 and working on issue 2--seen the script for issue 3 and I can't wait to draw it. These issues totally kick and for me it's been a lot like seeing ANH or Ep I all over again. The world is wide open and we've got an amazing galaxy to explore.

 

Now--Legacy. I'm impatient for you guys to see what we've got planned too. I'm adding the finishing touches to Legacy 0 and working on issue 2--seen the script for issue 3 and I can't wait to draw it. These issues totally kick and for me it's been a lot like seeing ANH or Ep I all over again. The world is wide open and we've got an amazing galaxy to explore.

Indeed we have Jan, and with you and John guiding us all there I hope we'll all enjoy it. Funny that I'm impatient yet I was just complaining to someone today that time is going so quickly

Another month or so to go as well Even though good things come to those who wait, it still isn't any comfort.

 

Sorry to keep this up: I geuss what bothers me is Quin, despite being a light dark flip flopper and an all around jerk to his soldiers lives while so many nicer jedi kick the bucket. I also don't like the idea of a master outliving his student.

 

Tell that to Dooku



Similar to a parent outliving a child, we don't like it, but it happens.




Not to mention it would have been a waste of so much potential for both of them to die (although when I saw Aayla die, I was terrified that Quin was next) if one died, the other should live, because there's a lot of story potential coming from their reaction to the other's death.

 

John: Atleast were talking about Star Wars and one of your characters now... or would you prefer to return to the spandex of the last page eh?

Sorry to keep this up: I geuss what bothers me is Quin, despite being a light dark flip flopper and an all around jerk to his soldiers lives while so many nicer jedi kick the bucket. I also don't like the idea of a master outliving his student.


Well considering the outcome, the clones deserved much worse than what they got.

(Still holding out hope for some way somehow Quin eviserates Bly, along with several thousand more of those worthless wet droids)

 

I fully expected Quinlan to die, and I was very, very pleased that he did not. I always loved the Ghost story, and knowing that it 'really' happened is, well, nice.

Still don't understand my feelings about Legacy. Yeah, generally I don't like the whole 'far into the future'-thing, mainly because it takes focus away from Anakin (right, so sue me - can't help that I'm a Vader fanatic), but in spite of that I'm just dying to get my hands on this comic. Weird, huh?

 

There's still plenty of time for Vader to kill him before that, methinks.

It's even worse for us TPBers I may actually consider getting the first issue when it actually comes out...

 

Yeah I was originally going to wait to the TPB but I just can't wait that long. Had to pre-order the handbook and start a subscription to the series because its too damn long to wait.

 

Just saw an ad for this in Tag and Blink.

Did a little googling on it and found out a bit more so I figured I'd come here and see if any more was known. Wasn't expecting 15 pages of catching up.

Really looking forward to this. The titles after Republic have left me wanting but Legacy looks like its going to fill that nitch nicely for me

Price is right too. $.25 comics is a trend I can get behind.

 

Is there a name for the model of that TIE fighter we saw hovering around the temple?

 

Yeah.


Bob.


-- John