Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 411: Kidnapped -- Discussion Thread

C_R, I know you were talking to someone else but I hold Obi-Wan in the highest regard, he's probably my favorite SW character if I had to pick, but I still completely disagree with your portrayal of that scene and what it means for him.

GG, I just did some research on what "mary sue" means since I wasn't exactly sure, and I have to say it's really an abuse of the term to use it just because they made her more powerful than you would like her to be or they made her the focus of a particular scene. What I read indicated that the term is primarily meant to describe a character accomplishing a completely unrealistic feat, which didn't happen, or doing something that other characters who were supposed to be more powerful couldn't, which also didn't happen. Obi-Wan was about to subdue the dude when he escaped, I don't think anyone would say Anakin couldn't have done it, Ahsoka just wound up being in the right place at the right time. I also don't think it's over-the-top unrealistic for a Force-user with two lightsabers who is extremely agile to defeat a brute with a whip who is big, bulky, and slow. Therefore, I see no "mary sue" qualifiers in that scene.

 

I just get tired and annoyed of his smug, sarcastic portrayal in TCW, and his voice. I also don't get when people say he's not used enough. But I don't mind him in the films or the micro-series. Like I said in this thread before, I think he was done well in this episode (not just when he was getting beat to a pulp).

 

Okay, I can understand what you are saying, and even agree in some ways, and I hold no disrespect for your opinion. Though there is one major thing I personally disagree with:

You hate Obi-Wan because you find him "Smug and Sarcastic" okay, maybe Sarcastic, yes, but your forgetting one major thing...

WARNING MAJOR RANT. ANAKIN FANS BEWARE

Anakin "I'm such a hot badass" Skywalker is by far the single most smug, grating, whiny, over the top, self focused little ***** I have EVER seen appear in this TV Show. Let's see...

He is EXTREMELY self-obsessed to the point of narcissism. He always feels the need to brag about how all the women love him, how he can do any mission, defeat any foe, all around act like a Gary-Stu, and get away with it "Just cause" If people wonder where Ahsoka gets her "Don't you think I'm a little over-qualified?" from? HERE IT IS!

He feels the need to act like a smartass clown for "Laughs" and the writers just LOVE giving this quality to him.

He is WHINY. I don't care HOW MUCH people think he has improved since the movies, HE IS STILL WHINY.
"Oh, so I'm still the delivery boy?"
"Does my battalion have to do EVERYTHING?"

And here comes the Single.Largest.Problem.

People complain on how Ahsoka is a Mary-Sue. I will not deny nor conform such feelings, however, I will say the following.

Anakin is a GARY-STU!

Now, everyone will say "But Confederate! HE is the CHOSEN ONE!"

Yes, he is. Except there is one fatal flaw with that. The "Chosen One" does not mean someone is the single most badass warrior in the galaxy that can single handed cut through a battalion of Super Battle Droids and slay fearsome "Monsters" without a scratch. The whole point of the "Chosen One" is the one who will BRING BALANCE TO THE FORCE.

Wiping out droid armies, destroying super-weapons, and killing monsters and baddies does NOT qualify as "Bringing Balance to the Force" The position of the "Chosen One" As I can tell, is NOT a WARRIOR. Does this make Anakin extremely important? YES! Does it make him more powerful with a Lightsaber then any other Jedi in the order? NO!

But for some reason the show seems OBSESSED with making the "Chosen One" the roll of most badass Jedi/Warrior in the galaxy. Let's just see how much he has changed from previous canon portrayals:

He is no longer a Padawan, he is a full fledged Jedi.
He is no longer a Commander, but a GENERAL with (Formerly) his own Command Ship and entire fleet under his command, and personal naval officer.
He has A PADAWAN.
He has A PADAWAN.
He has A PADAWAN.

The show feels the need to give him the qualities of Han Solo (Badass and cool), Obi-Wan Kenobi (Mentor and leader), AND Luke Skywalker (Hero of existence) ALL AT ONCE.

Oh, and he is just about involved in EVERY SINGLE BATTLE. There was NO REASON for him to be on Dac demonstrating his Sushi-Making skill with Quarren. NO. REASON. There was NO REASON for him to be the ONLY Jedi to have a full roll during the Second Battle of Geonosis, where every other Jedi General only had one.

Ki-Adi-Mundi: Landing
Luminara: Primary Assault
Obi-Wan: Clean Up
Anakin: Everything

Anakin has had action scenes in SIX Episodes, Obi-Wan has in ONE this season. THAT is why people say Obi-Wan is underused. I can understand a dislike of Obi-Wan or Ahsoka's personalities, even AGREE. But why is it NO ONE EVER comments Anakin is OVE

 

That's okay, it was hilarious even if I only very slightly agree.

Still, one of the key characteristics of a "mary sue" that I read said that they would only have positive character traits. You listed a bunch of character traits which might seem to conflict (I would argue conflicting characteristics coexist in all of us anyway, which GL has said is one of the points of the Force/SW), but you only listed positive character traits there, which would make him a "gary stu." But we've definitely seen him go Dark Side across multiple seasons in TCW, so his personality is not portrayed all one-way as a "mary sue"'s would.

 

I'm not sure that Obi-Wan could have won the fight in just a hand-to-hand contest; I like to think he could have, but I'm not sure. He punched him and seemed to hurt his hand, seemed to genuinely struggle in places, and chose to call his lightsaber back to him in the end. Maybe zhygerrians have naturally tough skin?

Put that guy up against Mace Windu, though, he's going down. Kar Vastor was a monster.

 

You're right about the "Mary-Sue/Gary-Stu" thing. I wish there was a more proper word for how I feel. Anyway, thanks for an intelligent read. I was a little worried I'd only get comments like

"U mad bro?"

When I first posted

 

Uh, this is George Lucas we are talking about... Darth Maul anyone?

 

Confederate_Republic: lol Anakin is one of my favorite SW characters. But seriously, did you ask me why I didn't like Obi-Wan just so you could unleash your Anakin Rage?

 

Ehhhh, I think of it more as something a long time coming I got a convenient excuse for

In any case. Opinions. They're great because you don't have to agree with them.

 

This episode has produced some of the most amusing rants yet.

Reminds me of this:

ANAKIN: There are so many! Do they all have a system of planets?
QUI-GON: Most of them.
ANAKIN: Has anyone been to them all?
QUI-G0N: Not likely.
ANAKIN: I want to be the first one to see them all...

Which is exactly what he did.

 

Prison Break arc?

 

Yup this

 

I agree, also. No need to make more of these Droids Adventures, or anything on their level of silliness. We've had enough of the Droids on their own with their own series back in the 80's.

 

I certainly enjoyed this more than the Mon Cal trilogy

 

It's a completely different context to Maul. And does anyone actually think they'd double back on this, one of the most emotional moments in the show's history (some might say), to bring him back to appear in maybe every 10th episode? He's not even a major enough character to warrant bringing back, and if they did it would ruin his death scene.

But anyways, this is all very off-topic.

 

I actually thought you were saying that sarcastically as a reference to Maul and they didn't get it, NotAFanBoy.

 

Yeah, the arc with the escape (Bossk, Cad Bane, Bobba Fett, etc....)

 

How do you know who will be in the ep already? Besides, this isn't even the right thread to talk about this. Oops!

 

Filoni confirmed those characters.

STAY ON TARGET

 

If you insist on spoiling future episodes in the wrong thread you can at least black highlight them!!!

 

Actually go to the TCW discussion thread.

 

Thank you. This should really be enforced.

 

STAY ON TARGET

 

First off, yeah, stay on target.

Secondly, those spoilers weren't confirmed by Filoni. They're assumptions based on the trailer from this summer.

 

^ Barriss, is that... Agent Smith with a lightsaber?

Sorry, back on track back on track!

I wonder if I should do more scene by scene rants like I did for this one and the Mon Calamari episode.....