Sexism policy

Ramza's too busy reading biographies of obscure Hungarian mathematicians to do anything here.

 

I think I'm missing something...is the "hoover" reference a reference to a vacuum cleaner? If so, it is kind of funny* to this woman, but I admit I'm not up on all the terms nowadays used on the 'net.

As to the Mara drawing - and note, it was spoiler tagged - a post mentioned (not harangued or anything) the "male gaze" and even though that was dismissed, honestly, I didn't see any real big deal going on there. It's fair game to mention "male gaze" or how one perceives art, just as the artist has the right to draw as he/she sees fit, and there was the real potential for discussion to follow. Some actually did, though very little.

*Humor is often a play on stereotypes, sometimes with a twist. To me, the cross-the-line humor is when the would-be-comedian consistently and constantly picks on one group to the exclusion of all others with a "it's just a joke" defense, when it's pretty clear it's a way to pick on, belittle, or demean that one group.

 

lol... I do think I overreacted a bit. I mean, the remark had a sexist tone and wording, but much worse has been posted here. If you look on this page, when the post was brought to my attention, I was barely awake and having the first sips of my coffee.

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/ghostbusters-3.50020576/page-8

It's Diggy's fault... lol

 

I just want to point out that you did specifically mention that ""I'm a man, so I draw my girls sexy" is a bigger issue than the drawing itself. ", so you were addressing the drawing as an issue, just not as large of an issue as the words following it.

From discussion in the link, the mention of "boobs & butts" and "male gaze" and the artist specifically being criticized in that discussion for drawing the image the way he did made me feel I that the discussion itself was very much about both the image and the conversation afterward and thus relevant to the discussion at hand.

My comments were not about making anyone look irrational, nor did I ever suggest not taking the issue seriously. You, and others, can make "quotes" all you like to put words in other peoples mouths, but I really find that practice flies in the face of the type of respect your trying to encourage here.

A female poster in the fanart forum clearly had taken issue with the image being discussed, this combined with the ""If a woman poster has told you that a post of yours makes her uncomfortable due to sexism within...be a decent human being and knock it off". Well that poster was told in the discussion that he had made someone uncomfortable, so that is what I wanted to address and offer thoughts on. I don't think an artist standing up for the right to post his/her drawing isn't being a decent person, depending on the context of course. The administration and staff may decide that the image is or isn't acceptable and go from there.

And honestly I'm still very unclear on the how this system, regarding art, is going to work. And thats fine, I'm sure there is going to be a lot of interpretation to figure things out on a case by case basis. Some of the time, when art is in question, it isn't going to be so simple as right and wrong. There is going to be a lot of grey area to try and sort through.

 

Some art is trolling, some trolling is art. It's all very hard to call.

 

Darth Punk :

 

don't blame me! You called so called someone a sexist pig a few days ago (I do not condone name-calling, btw, I think it's lazy and disgusting), despite them not posting anything sexist whatsoever. You can't blame me for hoping for fireworks when an accual sexist post is made!

 

That post was pretty sexist, but we talked it out... same with this one.

 

But how was is sexist? I'm fairly on the sexist button, having two daughters, so I'd appreciate a bit more understanding. Calling someone a sexist paid is fairly on the the nose. The reasoning, not so much.

 

Both are pretty sexist, and I wasn't the only person to point it out...

 

Given that the issue of getting sexism into the rules has been addressed, I'd like the admins to reconsider locking the thread until such a time as we're looking to table the next lot of rule revisions.

This thread has hosted some excellent and largely on-point, troll-free discussion and without a clear focal point in the short term the ridiculousness of the announcement thread could spill over and nobody wants that.

EDIT: the post above is a good example of what we were hoping from the outset to avoid, since it's just name calling now. I would really hope the decision is made to put this on hold until we're all ready to look at a "phase 2" of the rules.

 

It's a tough call, because I get what Dave meant about our input being important for this policy to come together. With the thread locked, that kind of stops all progress. At the same time, I also get your point about that thread spilling over into this one. Honestly, I've been doing a good amount of arguing in comms today, and I'm pretty burned out. It's up to Dave and Ramza, of course. I mean, we can see what happens. I'm sure they'll take care of it, if somebody comes in here and starts some crazy ****storm. If things get out of hand, then lock, but right now, things seem to be pretty mellow.

 

Defining remarks about toilet seats as hate speech isn't going to sit well with many people (did you see what I did there?).

 

Nothing else to add, neither to this nor your other posts about this image.

A little late to this discussion, but while the image creator was probably brought up to think what he's thinking, I should not have been satanized by the usual suspect for seeing something wrong with the generalizations that anakinfansince1983 pointed out as problematic. There was no issue with the drawing per sé, more with the response and with the subtle common offender jumping in.

Making us look irrational is the common tactic of one certain mod on here and a bunch of other men's rights and "everything should be controversial" types. And it all boils down to the same thing - if some of us had prejudice about this whole fandom BECAUSE of people like them, they are not doing much to prove us that such prejudice was a generalization.

Also, TrakNar, let me know the next time something like this is discussed, for I'm hyperactive and I often can't even find a way with my own notifications. XD

 

Sorry, I had gotten distracted soon after the discussion. My focus has been elsewhere since.

 

Focus is a Ford model, right? Or a camera thing? The other kind is unknown to ....tee-hee, a crow is on my tree, I like crows, they're smart!

 

Yes, you made the case in favour of locking the thread. My thanks!

 

Sigh... this thread is about sexism, V2.... separate policy being worked on. Hate speech is being discussed in the other thread, regarding the broader guideline in the revised tos. Let's not bring that into this. Also, that was resolved within the thread it was posted in. It's now a non-issue. I saw something, said it bothered me, he explained his position and apologized, I accepted the apology, and we moved on... the way it should happen. There's really no need to revisit that. Onward, etc...

This is an ongoing discussion, and it's been mostly productive, thankfully. Examples are going to come up and be discussed, and hopefully resolved. Some will be valid, and others will not. We're ironing this out, and I'm glad MS is letting us take part in the process. I'm not here to fight. I'd like for this to be a civilized discussion, personally, and aside from a few issues/people, it has been.

 

Harps. Toilet seat. Sit well. Sit. Sitting on the toilet?