ST The New Rumor Intellectual Thread of Seriousness for Sophisticated Discourse

I've been thinking for awhile now everybody seems under the assumption that the ST will be focused on Kylo vs Rey but what if we are all wrong and they are not going for the predictable path, for one if Finn is force sensitive (which I think he is) there is no logical reason for him to not become a Jedi otherwise why bother making him force sensitive (which sources at SWU said he was) so in this case who will Finn fight during the ST??? All that's left is Snoke, heck for all we know Snoke is just a figurehead for a real villain who is an Ancient or Old Sith Lord. Thoughts???

 

Some fans are so obsessed with Finn a disappointment is gonna come sooner or later.

 

It doesn't mean it does exist either. The absence of evidence could just as easily be used to suggest Rey is Luke's daughter.

Also, MSW's sources have no reason to withhold Rey parentage when they've spoiled 90% of the film, including Han's death. Abrams for some reason is keeping that part under a cone of silence.

 

didn't Indie mention the mystery box when it came to the topic of Rey's parentage.

 

Just wondering if Rey's real name is Kira and she uses her middle name as an alias wouldn't Han still know that was his daughter ya know cause he knows her middle name?

 

Indeed. There's nothing definitive either way because that's exactly what Abrams wants. Why he thinks this is necessary is odd if she is the Solo nearly everyone, die-hard fan or otherwise, expects.

 

Maybe Finn was one of Luke's young Padawans, along with Rey, at the Academy? He survived the massacre just like Rey did, and he ended up with a different career path as a Stormtrooper. In the Trailer, when Rey extends her hand to Finn, he has a look of recognition and realizes that he knows her from the Academy. When Rey shows him the Lightsaber, he sees it as a sign to train as a Jedi once again. The Force has awakened in him, just at it has in Rey? There are a lot of possibilities.

 

True.

 

My opinion on the topic is Rey being a Solo is not mystery box as they released that cast pic photo on Day 1, if she was a SKywalker or unrealted than the mystery box would be doing it's real job.

 

All I know is the mystery box is in full effect. I have been so certain she is a solo since the casting and all the great fan speculation on this thread has made me second guess myself. Just shows how great SW fans are we jut keep digging till we find something I was once 100% sure she's solo now I'm going 60% solo 30% skywalker and sadly. 10% she is just a random. JJ Abrams is sitting menacingly in his directors chair laughing at all of us!

 

Satipo

I couldn't disagree more. When Rey picks up the saber the first time, she is in the middle of a life-or-death fight. It is a spur-of-the-moment decision necessitated by the fact that her close friend is getting the sith beat out of him. It's an important moment, but it is NOT a thought-out decision. Earlier in the movie, we see that Rey is actively resisting the call to be a Jedi. She is repulsed by the saber. When Rey finally reverses her decision, it needs to be of her own free will -- a decision made when she is calm and able to think clearly. Not when she has a proverbial gun pointed at her head.

At a bare minimum, making Rey into Luke's daughter seriously dilutes the impact of the closing scene for Rey's story. That final scene should be 100% about Rey finally and freely making the adult choice to embrace her destiny as a Jedi. Because SHE is the main character and no-one else. You keep trying to make that final scene all about Luke -- Luke finding his long-lost daughter, Luke's master plan to call Rey back to him coming to fruition. No and no. Luke is a background player now. He is Flo Ballard. Rey is Diana Ross. That final scene is all about HER.

bobbyroberts

I agree that Rey is likely several years younger than Kylo. But I am the youngest in a large family and I still had an intimate relationship growing up with my older siblings -- who range in age from 5 to 15 years older than me. We still lived in the same house for many years, we still ate all our meals together, took family vacations together, played games together, and came from the same parents. We also all look alike. Age difference or no, there is no question that sibling relationships are, at least on average, much more intimate than cousin relationships.

And you should know as well as I do that the stronger and more intimate the relationship, the greater the drama will be once the relationship goes bad. A story where a woman discovers that her husband cheated on her with some random floozy doesn't carry near the same dramatic punch as a story where a woman discovers that her husband cheated on her with her best friend.

As for your second point, see my reply above. At the very least, the dramatic impact of Rey's decision would be diluted. More likely, it would be overpowered -- because the emotional core of the scene then becomes about the long-awaited reunion between father and daughter. And for what? As far as I can see, making Rey into Luke's daughter adds absolutely nothing to the story except for fan service.

Finally, I just want to add for all the folks who keep screaming about how Rey cannot be Han/Leia's daughter because she doesn't have enough bonding time with them, consider this: What if the movie we were trying to figure out and piece together from call sheets was not TFA, but ROTJ?

Think about it. We have all the call sheets from ROTJ and somebody says, "Hey, I think Luke and Leia are twins!" From the call sheets alone, that idea would be ludicrous. "No way! Luke and Leia only have ONE real scene together in the entire movie! (Which could accurately be described as "Luke bids Leia a fond farewell") "And Luke leaves her immediately after that scene! Luke would never go away from Leia right after finding out that she is his twin sister."

The Star Wars movies are many things -- sci-fi, fantasy, soap opera. But above all else, they are action-adventure films. At least in the OT, characters don't sit around discussing their relationships. There is too much work to do, escapes to be made, enemies to fight.

Or consider ESB. That's the big Han-Leia relationship film, right? How many scenes are there of Han and Leia really "bonding" or talking about their relationship? Maybe one, if you count a few snappy lines right before their first kiss. No, the relationship plays out in stolen moments -- a kiss on the cheek here, a gentle tease there, and so on. But this was a major relationship in the OT.

Now, for the umpteenth time, I will try to bid adieu (and this time I really mean it! ) What I need is a "patch" for this place. Or maybe I should say something outrageous to get myself temporarily banned so I can't post. Farfegnugen!

 

Hello. I'm ThreeDeathstickProblem, and I'm a JCF addict.

 

nice handle! i love LOA!

 

True, but your personal experience isn't necessarily a universal one. I had one closer to yours, myself - three older siblings, one younger, all the older siblings ranging from 6-15 years older than me - and while I definitely shared a lot of space and time with them growing up, I didn't live with all of those older three for more than 6 or 7 years tops, and it was basically just me and my little brother past age 12. Not to say there still weren't relationships and tethers to each other that we kept tending to, but there are also situations (especially considering the... volatility of this particular fictional family in question) where simply being someone's brother or sister doesn't necessarily mean there's a shared history to draw from. It's a safe-ish assumption, the idea that they grew up together and shared multiple experiences together even with a bigger age difference, but it's still an assumption. It's just as possible they didn't know each other very well. Lots of siblings don't really know their older brother/sister, because that age difference (and personality growth) makes those sorts of connections pretty difficult - if they're even really wanted.

Why? It's still her decision. She still has the agency. She's still the one making the choices and putting forth the effort, spurred by her own determination, to do what she wants to do. I don't think it dilutes it at all, depending on how it plays. Sure, there's a way to play it where it would just be "la-di-da, off to see papa!" but I don't get the sense Abrams/Kasdan/Kinberg/Kennedy are looking to have it go that way. That you'd read the effects of such a character arc in the movie as culminating in something as cynical as "fan service" seems weird to me. I don't get how you arrived there. Either way she's going to end up on that island with Luke, to train, because she wants to train, because her destiny has been claimed and she's going to achieve that destiny via her own determination. That the person she's training with could be her father doesn't negate or even dilute those choices, I don't think. Or at least it doesn't have to. It's not a fait accompli at any rate. She was just fine without any of these people less than a few days ago. She could be just fine without them again. But she chooses to stay. That's on her. That's not on Luke.

I don't think anyone's "screaming" anything. This is kind of an unfair depiction of arguments you don't necessarily agree with. I'm not going out of my way to depict people who think she has to be a Solo that unfairly.

The ROTJ comparison is pretty good, but I guess the holes would be that Leia's only on Tatooine as part of an overall plan hatched by Luke, which means they've been discussing things and in contact prior to the film starting, and they spend time together in the fleet, share a moment before going on their mission together, go on a chase together, and then have their very special discussion together. In fact, if we were to compare the two, the fact that we'd be told "They're twins!" and then the description of their only major scene together being a heartfelt, emotional (sort of - it's maybe the worst acted scene in the entire Original Trilogy) discussion before Luke leaves, with Leia emotionally devastated and needing to be consoled by Han, would point pretty strongly to that Twins rumor being true, wouldn't it?

Much in the same way Han & Kylo seems like it's done deal mostly because of the Kylo in the cockpit scene, butted up against Han & Finn having a heart-to-heart scene.

 

You could say the same with Rey and Luke as well.

 

I was actually thinking of something similar to that as a possibility.

Of course, I would have to ignore the rumors and I do that anyway, so...

Anyway, yeah, just going by what's official (including the teasers and what not)...



...it's possible to paint a picture of them knowing each other.

Finn may not be sure who she is at first, nor she him. But then in the next scene of that clip it could be like, "Rey, is that you?" and "Finn? You're alive?"

So two people with no last name. Coming across one another on the same planet. What are the odds of them not knowing each other? [And insert 3720 to 1 joke.]

And I'll still go with Variety's confirmation from their sources that Finn's a Jedi. And say he's disguised as a Stormtrooper because he and the surviving Jedi may have come across information regarding Luke's whereabouts or his lightsaber, and he was the one to opt to go undercover; until he was found out.

And he may be with Pip Andersen and Crystal Clarke (and maybe a few others) as the only known surviving Jedi, until of course Finn comes across Rey. And then he brings her up to speed as to what's going on, and together they go off to find the wizard, Luke.

I tell you, I really like my version of the movie.

 

So why do I get this really weird feeling that the Luke cameo will be revealed in a tv spot? I mean tv-spot season is usually when the studios get a little crazy when it comes to showing footage. Heck even the Khan reveal was leaked in a tv spot for STID!*

 

The Khan reveal couldn't have been leaked in a pre-release TV spot. That was actually a point of contention within the studio: During March Madness, Paramount had decided they were going to run ads that made it clear that John Harrison was Khan in the hopes it'd increase buzz, but ultimately decided against it. They adhered to Abrams' request the secret be kept until release, even as reviews were spoiling it. That particular "twist" (such as it was) was maintained by the studio until opening day. The closest thing to an "official" slip was that Entertainment Weekly photo caption that credited Cumberbatch as "Khan." Bad Robot/Paramount commenced straight-up lying shortly afterwards.

It is gonna be tricky, though. They've gotten away with showing us Luke once in a teaser - although he's hooded, we never see anything but his hand. There's not going to be any real footage of him, but they also can't not show him in some capacity otherwise people are going to wonder what the hell is going on.

So it'll probably have to be a one or two second shot of him at most, maybe? They might have to handle it like they did Vader in Episode III. It's gonna be hard to say because we don't really know just how much screentime he's got.

 

the point is anakin was THE most powerful of all time but he never got to full power.



another point is that no matter how many fans luke has young anakin, obi wan, yoda and sidious would have wiped the floor with him in rotj.

 

So therefor he wasn't the most powerful ever- he just had the potential to be the most powerful. He coulda been a contender!

 

if anakin hadn't been overconfident he could have taken everyone out.

 

I think there might be more darksiders than just Kylo and Snoke.

 

That's a huge stretch. Even if she's Hans then the argument still includes "yay Han can die with a good child at least". Let's not pretend that's not an argument you guys make daily and that's entirely Han-centric and has nothing to do with Rey. I mean, have we not spent months talking about how Han dying with only an evil son is too sad for him?

 

There was a tv spot where it showed somebody(I believe it was mccoy) looking at a screen while Kirk and Khan were doing that space jump and on the screen it has the name Khan listed. I'm trying to find the screencap but I distinctly remember debating it with fans

 

Phasma could be one.

We're still not sure if "The Force Awakens" refers to Rey's decision to embrace her destiny, or if it means that people are much more easily able to tap into the Force now. Or both, even.

Huh, I didn't know someone either slipped up (or snuck it in) like that. That's kinda cool. I'm on the hunt with you now