Discussions Dark Jedi: An Oxymoron

Jolee is still a Jedi when we meet him, which refutes your point. The Exile was called the last of the Jedi, but later on in the game we find out that's not true at all, do we not?

And no, it is not out of character at all. The term Jedi doesn't necessarily denote an adherent of the Jedi Order. I understand your confusion, but you cannot ignore the fact that as far as canon goes, you are incorrect. We shouldn't even be having this discussion.

Yes, the term may not make sense to you. That doesn't mean it's incorrect. It's just a difference of opinion that happens to conflict with canon fact.

 

When we first meet him Jolee himself says he is not a Jedi, just an old man. And as he reveals later, he knows who Revan really is and is coming with him to keep an eye on him, even if it is like to end with Revan killing him. i'm not going through the entire script of Knights of the Old Republic to see what instance you are referring too but if he at one point or another doesn't object to someone referring to him as Jedi, it ain't because he feels he never stopped being jedi, it's cause he is NOW for the first in a long time, walking the Jedi's path again.

Are you reading my post at all? i'm not saying the title is accurate, I'm saying that people giving her that address says something about what those people think being Jedi means, when one stops being Jedi, and when one doesn't. When she was exiled, there were masters at the meeting that felt she stopped being a jedi the moment she joined Revan and followed him to war.

Han Solo, poster boy for ignorance of the Force, knows about Luke's powers and lightsaber, thinks he is having delusions of grandeur to be calling himself a Jedi Knight, even he knows better. Yoda says Luke is not a jedi until he confronts Vader. Not a matter of training, or accomplishments, but he has to reach a certain mindset. Having gone full dark side, obviously, precludes having that mindset.

None of these people would insist a darksider is still very much a Jedi. There are people in TLS that do. Atton, Goto, random NPC in Nar Shadda. But they just call them Jedi. Whether because of ignorance of the Force, Atton's bitterness to the supposed good Jedi, or robotic indifference, they would never bother with the distinction "Dark Jedi". When a distinction is needed, they have the term Sith for the bad guys to fall back on.

Buuut because there was a time when the Sith species was stuck on Korriban and darksiders didn't right away proclaim themselves "Darth Something", conveniently enough the Jedi were far more openminded with their own designation then their successors. it's almost as if some writer needed an catchy term to refer to Adjunta Pall's rabble rather then the term naturally came about in universe.

Well that's an incredibly oppressive point of view to enter a discussion forum with. Do you go to all the threads that tackle whether the movies did something well or not to point out that it is canon and they should not be having this discussion?

 

OK, both of you knock it off. Talk about the topic at hand, not each other or whether the discussion should be had or not. Next offense and I am handing out bans.

 

Unsubscribing. I've had enough.

 

Damn. Rough times. I thought the topic was sufficiently interesting, although I don't agree with the premise. I do think we need more morally ambiguous characters.

 

This is also were I would like to point out how non-sith forceusers get the word 'jedi' slapped on their name even if they have no afilation with them or their teachings.
Grey Jedi: Well there are jedi whom sercetly use dark side powers during (prehaps during fights). There are some force-users who work indepetly from jedi. Perhaps their powers were missed. Without training, walking a middle line would be the most instinal path. Then their are a couple of EU force users who intenaly use both sides. They work alone useing all parts of their mind to harness the force.
Dark Jedi: A detorating jedi could be called a "dark jedi' as they are still somewhat part of the order.
However once either a grey jedi or dark jedi leave the order and work rouge they need new names. Perhaps:
Indepentant lightside user: Light force user
Indepentant darkside user: Dark force user
Anyone using anyside of the force or untrained forceusers who unintally user both sides: Forceusers
Indepentant and intentnal user of both sides: Grey forceuser
Light force user and follower of jedi teaching: Jedi
Dark force user and follower of sith teaching: Sith
Anyone who is part of another group of forceusers: Well whatever their name is

 

Well, we do see the term 'darksider' thrown around a lot in the EU.

The problem is that 'darksider' or 'greysider' or what have you is still inherently biased, because it's subscribing to a bipolar view of the Force. That might be a view most Jedi and Sith subscribe to (although a monopolar view seems to have become trendy in post-NJO Legends), but many other Force traditions don't view it in those terms, or indeed in terms of 'the Force' at all, e.g. the White Current, the Aing-Tii's spectral views, the Rhandites' Dark, magic, gods, and so on.