Finn and Rey's Cat Cantina and Pizza Parlor (The Fanfic Social Thread)

It sucks when medical professionals don't listen. I hate hearing that, as it means you needlessly suffer for far longer than you should have to, until someone finally believes you, or listens properly.

These any good to you?


TrakNar - I'm glad the CT scan came back clear! Look after yourself.

 

On the top of my head...

To listen to others one should be opened to listening to what they say and grasp the basic of the thing called tact. That and being sober usually helps. People who need help from the so-called so-called are usually not quite themselves when under the influence. And that's where any trace of objective thinking disappears. Not all of us are wired to be extremely objective, and it's okay - I know I'm very subjective myself - but a certain dose of objective thinking is necessary in order to live and not just have biological functions that qualify us as living creatures.

A bunch of us have various mental problems and there's no reason to deny them. If the person is stable otherwise and the only things that remains are their personality traits and quirks, they won't be treated in most cases. One can even go ahead and say that everybody has issues - it's just that the society shuns them and that people whose issues are, say, of psychopathic/sociopathic nature or anything that concerns lack of emotions and lack of commitment, are currently OK by the society's standards, so they make everybody else look bad. Emotions as emotions should not be ridiculed and the anti-hero world that's currently a big thing in fiction should not prevail and turn us all into monsters, but there is a difference when it comes to how people who are OK and people who are not OK process emotions.

The loved ones may or may not have issues of their own and be unable to understand others' emotions. And in that case, they cannot be the right emotional anchor. One resorts to a therapist they can trust, a friend, a spiritual guide...whatever. Find an emotional anchor, but don't make yourself dependent on it to the point where you cannot function without it.

Another thing that the person who's gone to deep should give up on for a while is instant gratification. Any kind thereof. Things will improve if we let them improve, but the process is slow. The self-help books, films etc - they're lying.

 

*Peeks in* Hello?

 

leiamoody: Well, probably in a rather different way but yeah? I often seem to stumble if I'm trying to tell people in real life about something that bothers me. Either end up saying something that comes out other than what I meant, or else they hear something totally different even though I think I kind of managed it. It's frustrating. I don't actually know enough to say I know what you're going through or anything cliche like that, but anyway.

 

Yeah, you never told me that I'm an irresponsible whiney brat.

Disclaimer apropos my previous post:
All of this is coming from a person who gets genuine panic attacks from any hint of comparison, competition, fears being rated, graded, is scared of people and is right now pondering going back to basic studies, but even the idea of a public announcement of exam results freaks her out, because she could be LAUGHED AT.

 

Ewok Poet: You'd have to go find an actual irresponsible whiny brat to pose as you first.

 

Want an example?

I don't remember how to university. I looked at their website and since I have not been there for ten years (!), I was like DOUBLE V TEE EFF MATE. Then I opened the little book thingy with my grades and I was confused to see that I had passed nine exams and not seven, like I used to think.

 

That being sober thing...nice assumption that I was drunk when I posted. I mean, if I was drunk all the time, I'd probably be a happier person. Sorry, nope, not under the influence of anything other than a high dose Xanax at the time. Despite my appreciation of all things fermented, I actually rarely, rarely drink the stuff.

You're right about the rest of the stuff. Just don't throw around assumptions about people being drunk next time.

 

Ewok Poet: No joke, the reason I haven't gone back to school is because then I'd have to look at all that stuff AND ACTUALLY FIGURE IT OUT. And for some places they want you to have recommendation letters. Like any of my teachers remember me after several years -- especially when there were hundreds of us in some of those classes!

 

I did not think you were necessarily drunk, but I thought that it could have been a medicine that does not fit. I hope that I did not hurt you, it was not my intention, nor I would shame anybody over any kind of drinking or other substance that is not LOL I DID THIS STUFF AND IT'S COOL, YOLO. Those types deserve all the jabs that could possibly be directed at them.

And I overdosed on Xanax in April 2013.

I weighed 90 kg at my 164 cm, so eight pills did not do much to me. I did not want to kill myself or have any kind of a drug trip (I didn't even know that Xanax was a benzo back then), but a friend who found me a client was harassing me, blackmailing me and giving me black and white statements such as "if you don't call me once per day, I will call this off". And when I did not respond to him for two days, he kept on manically phoning me every ten minutes and he was so harsh when I finally picked up, that I thought I would have a heart attack. So, I took those eight pills to prevent a heart attack. My mom thought I would die, she wanted to call ambulance...I only went to sleep and promised myself I'd go see my psychiatrist in the morning.

I woke up to the news of the Velika Ivanča massacre and rationalised things in an odd way, assuming that "whiners like me asking for help is not OK because lunatics walk around freely". I went the next day and the psychiatrist told me that, by all means, she should classify things like this as a suicide attempt and hospitalise me. But she believed me when I said that I was just horribly, horribly scared and qualified this situation as an "acting out episode". Had I weighed 62 kg then, like I do now, I would've probably spent a lot of time in hospital and be forever labelled as a crazy person, or whatever horrible name people use for this nowadays. Not that they don't already classify somebody who banged her head against the wall as a child and teenager that way.

So, I'm not a saint. I just hate the idea of drinking-and-drugs-as-social-capital, as much as I hate bullying, manipulation and, well, other things I obviously hate. In fact, I am so not a saint that I don't think that Danube and Sava will wash me for the next decade or so. A good person who is clueless is as dangerous as somebody who is bad on purpose. And that's what I am, most likely.

Back to the topic - just allow yourself to believe that what other people are saying is not common courtesy or random white lies to make you feel better. Some of us truly feel for others and though our problems may prevent us from providing all the help possible (I get unreasonable fears for days, weeks, sometimes I get a panic attack when I am supposed to read a message), but that does not mean our love, care and willingness to help is not true.

Hope this makes sense.

Recommendation letters.

Name: Ewok Poet
Qualifications: None
Last time seen: 2006
Seminars/essays: I did one in 2002, but I don't remember it
What do you want: Somebody to explain me this "studying" thing with "points" and "modules".

 

leiamoody I can recognise a plea for help when I see it. I hope you're OK, even though we've never met. I have no idea what you're going through, and I have no judgement of you for that very reason. There are people here who are very good listeners: People here who would be eager to be your friends and accept you exactly as you are. Sometimes it is better to talk to a stranger. PLEASE know there is hope, and friendship, and happiness out here waiting to embrace you.

A friend of mine suffers from depression. Clinical depression, not just the "oh-I'm-a-bit-down today" type. He once described to me, vividly, how it feels to be at the bottom of the pit with no way to get out. So, I tried not to make any frivolous, throwaway, half-comments above that might further deepen your plight. If I did, please forgive me. It's hard to understand from the outside.

 

So, as neither Gamiel nor Anedon have come back with more about this “more” to explain Horus’ sudden turn to the dark side, it’ll have to remain an obscure rumour to me.



Sometimes, when offering a critique, an illustrative example can work well to explain what I mean. To me, there was no pretext for Horus’ actions, no convincing event-reason-conclusion sequence, rendering it a non sequitor. He just went straight from “Hey look at me, beloved Number 1 son of the Emperor – who just made me Warmaster, with the galaxy at my feet.” To, “Waaagh, where’s my statue right that’s it I’m going to kill my dad!”



So, off the top of my head, here’s an alternative scenario they could have used:



Firstly, we need a convincing weakness in Horus’ character, something that can influence his choices. I would select the sin of pride for this. Warriors, especially elite soldiers, have a professional rivalry – add into the mix that the Primarchs are brothers and sibling rivalry becomes even more intense when it crosses the line into rage/envy/pride.



So, for book 1 (Keep the title, Horus Rising, it’s good): Open with the battle at Ullanor. Show the reader the rivalry between the legions and their Primarchs, driving them on in the battles to perform feats in the eyes of their beloved Emperor, but keep it at the good-natured, based-on-respect ribbing and sparring level.



Then at the Triumph the Emperor springs his surprise: He’s retiring to Terra and must select a Warmaster to command in his stead. This is a dangerous move as it elevates one brother above the others. Let’s say he announces he can’t choose between Sanguinius and Guilliman (Horus is not even in second place!), and demands they fight a duel on top of a mountain – to the death – to decide it. Guilliman, ever the shrewd diplomat, announces he cannot fight his brother and defers to the Angel. This is secretly what the Emperor wanted him to say, cementing a popular leader supported by all. Sanguinius is all set to be Warmaster. But Horus is furious at being passed over (pride!). Maybe a spokesman (Abbadon) who perhaps misreads Horus’, announces that Horus will, in fact, take that challenge and fight Sanguinius to prove himself.



Emperor stares at Horus and says, “Is this true? Do you doubt my judgment?” Horus feels he has something to prove.



Book 1 finale: The two Primarchs duke it out on the mountain (breathtaking foreshadowing of that final confrontation at the Seige of Terra) and Sanguinius wins. Either through skill or trickery, Sanguinius has Horus on his back, disarmed, and is poised with his sword raised high to deliver the killing blow. Sang pauses, looking to the Emperor for guidance. Emps says, “Kill him! I have no use for anyone who doubts me,” horrifying both Horus and Sang.



Sang throws away his sword, saying he cannot kill his brother. Emps gets angry, says, “In that case, Horus is the Warmaster if you do not have the strength!”



This puts Horus’ “Rise” on very dubious, shaky ground. He has been humiliated by Sang in front of everyone, and his status is not won through merit. The seeds of doubt, rage, and envy of his brothers are planted.



Book 2: Work on this angle. Maybe use that planet called “Murder” (it was a very intense and effective setting). Have Horus and someone more practical (like Dorn) arguing over how to handle it. Dorn is cautious and urges tactical approach. Horus goes straight down for a face-to-face. The Luna Wolves get stuck in trouble and have to be rescued by Sang and Guilliman. Another humiliation.



Book 2 ending: Sang, Guilliman, Dorn and some other brothers have a secret conference with the Emperor (now back on Terra) and say, “This guy’s out of control, you should have never made him Warmaster, Sanguinius is best.” The Emperor is like, “OK, let me think about it, don’t say anything to Horus.” But Horus, either through a spy or some other way, gets to know about this.



This fans the flames of doubt and envy – he desperately wants the approval of his brothers and his father, and losing his position becomes a real threat to his power.



Book 3: Another difficult situation, Sang and Horus arguing over how to deal with it. Horus is like, “I’m Warmaster, shut up and do what I say.” Sang goes over his head to the Emperor, who steps in and orders Horus to stand down, Sang is right. This is an intolerable dishonor for Horus. The Luna Wolves are sent off to somewhere less important, and Horus broods, rage building.



Then, and only then, does Chaos come-a-whispering, maybe in the form of that Word Bearer guy. He tells Horus, “You’re better than Sang. Some of the brothers know it. There is another power in the galaxy, Chaos. We can show you how to prove it.” By now, through very real experiences, Horus hates his brothers, resents his father, and his faith can be tested.



Maybe he gets hold of a Daemon sword, and with it becomes even more powerful, going back to the campaign he had been sent away from and “proving” himself to Sang by blitzing everything.



It starts with a small rebellion like this, defying his father’s word for what he thinks is the right reasons, that starts to open the wedge. He also finds proof that Chaos can, in fact, make him even more powerful.



Book 3 finale: Chaos whispers, “OK, you picked up the sword. Now you gotta pay the price, do this one small thing (slaughter a whole planet of humans?) in the name of Khorne, and we can make you even more powerful than your father. How would you like to be Emperor of all mankind?”



The following books can then focus on each Primach and how they face the choice between sides, and who they pledge their loyalty to.


Something more like this would have worked better, for me. How about you?

 

Kurisan
Well Horus fatal flaw is his pride also in the novels.
I think his reason was defenetly not the staue it was the knowledge that his father had lied to him, had used him. The feel of betrayal, combined with his doubts if he could lead the crusade. But he took it upon himself to do it. He made though choices and was forced into wars he didn't wanted. And than he learned that the emperor essentiaky abused him and not only him all the primarchs. So it wasn't about him not getting a statue but ibstead about him revolting against his creator who had enslaved him.
Remeber he nearly died something like this changes you, I think from then on the chaos was there subconcious.
And also he was tricked by Logar, who has a solid reason for his betrayal as have most other traitor primarchs.

 

leiamoody - It's perfectly fine for you to post your feelings in here, be them upbeat or not. The social thread doesn't always have to be jovial, I think most all of us have shared trials in our lives and shared things that are very personal. The only thing we really ask to not discuss are controversial topics that will cause potential for fighting. I'm sorry you are having a hard time, and as a medical professional I'm very sorry you've been ignored. If you ever want to PM me to vent or just to talk, I'm happy to do so.

@Kahara- Most universities will accept work or volunteer references, especially if you've been out of school for a bit. They know your teacher probably won't remember you.

~

I had an amazing opportunity this weekend. I got to get a tour of the West Wing of the White House. (For those who may not know, the West Wing is the side where the President of the U.S. and their senior staff work.) This isn't a tour open to the public, the only way to get it is for someone who works out of the White House to invite you (and then a background check).

We saw the Oval Office, the Cabinet Room, the Roosevelt Room, the Rose Garden, the door to the Situation Room and the Press Briefing Room. The only place inside you could take pictures was the Press Briefing Room:

Spoiler

 

I'm sorry if I have made anyone not feel comfortable sharing their feelings here. I want this to be a safe place and goodness knows I've used this place to get some feelings off of my chest. No, things don't have to be jovial and superficial here all the time. At the same time I know some topics make some people extremely uncomfortable which is why think sometimes private messages are a better venue for the really serious stuff. People on the internet can be mean if you put yourself out there and I'd hate for that to happen here. If anyone needs to talk about any of the really serious stuff, just post a message here saying you need to talk to someone


I feel like I should post more, but I'm dealing with my own stuff and I'm not in the right frame of mind so I'm sorry if dismissive (my stepfather is a pill and my cannula that delivers my insulin decided to kink and leak when I was out for dinner).

 

Anedon Yeah... but the decision was made at the point of the (lack of) statue.

Maybe more of that scene got revealed in later books that I haven't read yet? If so, please do elucidate (I really do want to be convinced lol).

My point - and problem - with False Gods, is that the "lie" in itself is not enough, because it comes from a proven liar and betrayer, and Horus is like, "Yeah, I knew it was you all along lol." He even seems to know he is being lied to in that scene. There's nothing at that point that should stop him going back to his beloved father for an explanation: Did you know about this? What's the plan?

When Horus has conflicting information from two sources, which do you think he'd really go with?

The Emperor had just made him Number 1 son amongst all the Primarchs, Warmaster of the Galaxy; there's no challenge to his pride. There's no coherent reason for the Emperor to leave out his statue. It looks like an obvious trick, because it is (beknownst to us readers lol). If Horus was a babbling halfwit, I could buy that maybe he would fall for that, but he clearly isn't.

I don't buy that Horus or the Primarchs feel abused or used, either - they absolutely love their job, wrecking everything in sight for the Emperor. The only thing they worry about is what will happen when the fighting ends (another possible angle for Chaos that might have worked better in the story).

Bottom line: If Chaos is revealed to Horus to be real, yes, that is unsettling knowledge. But to go down on bended knee and immediately join this abomination is not a convincing first reaction from Horus, at that point in time. He would try and fight it with all his might and check that knowledge with the Emperor.

I do concede that the close brush with death is a factor. It would be a shame if that was really the decider, though. Horus doesn't strike me as one who fears death - they all seem to accept it will come to them in battle eventually, as they are functionally immortal and this is the best way for them to go anyway.

Lorgar turning I have no problem with. And that Primarch of the Emperors Sons (name escapes me), with the story drawing influence from The Portrait of Dorian Gray, also made sense to me - the pursuit of perfection straying into the sin of vanity - even though that one was not the most popular amongst the HH novels.

K

 

nm

 

Kurisan
Well I think you overlook a few things though. Horus always suspected that there were actually gods and demons in the galaxy. Remeber Jubal in the first book. And than the Chaos powers heal him, proving him that the emperor lied to him. And when he saw the future he realized the hypocricy of his father. He saw the Emperor worshipped as a god and him and his brothers forgotten. So why should he return to Terra to speak with the Emperor. Remeber the emperor just ordered one of his sons (Magnus) to be killed for using psykers and its implied the two missing legions were also wiped out over such issues. So what would have happened if Horus suddenly started to talk about gods and demons? His father would turn on him. Also he ordered the Ultramarines to commit genocide against religious people.

And than we habe the fact that Horus was saved by chaos powers and whatever is touched by chaos is changed, so while Horus wasn't completly made a puppet of the gods he still changed.
Also Horus does not join chaos, he wants to rebel against the emperor and unite mankind around him. He is no servant like Abbadon later is. Horus is his own master and the chaos influence is far more subtle. And in later books he is horrified how deep some of his brothers like Fulgrim have fallen into chaos.

I won't deny that him not getting a statue has hurt his pride but just think about it. He is the favored son, he is the best warrior and statesman among his brothers. He gets along with all of them. He put his entire life behind the cause, he made uncomfortable decisions, he lost friends for it. And than he learns that he will never get any credit for it, that he will be forgotten while his father lets himself be worshipped. Honestly that's a better reason to go rebel than Darth Vaders.

Also does Horus love his job? I'm not so sure, primarch are no Space Marines, they have other interstes other than war. Perturabo and Logar both hated it. And Horus said himself he didn't wanted to be warmaster. He blamed himself for everything that went wrong and felt Sanguinius should lead instead. Horus struggled with his burden, he wanted to make peace with the Interex but he couldn't I think he started to hate his proffesion more and more. Traveling through the galaxy to kill billions in the name of an empire based on a great lie.

I'm not saying Horus is perfect or right with what he thinks but its a better reason than "he was tainted by chaos from his birth". I think the main problem a lot of people habe with HH is that the Emperor is portrayed very flawed and the traitor primarch sympathetic.

But 40k is no LotR there is no good and evil.

 

True, there is only lesser and greater evil, and the Greater Good

 

I started reading the Ciaphas Cain novels. That's about as far as I'll go with Warhammer 40K.

 

@Anedon Hmmm. You keep coming back to the statue scene with no new information, which makes me think I have not expressed myself clearly. I apologise, I confess I speak no German so I’m not sure how to make it clearer.

RE: Jubal. They don’t know what it was that corrupted him except that it was a warp entity. It was a very strong reason for them to not mess with the warp, and to not trust warp entities.

At that point, he was not yet healed. He was still in the death dream. The deal was to join with Chaos and then the healing came.

His brothers were all there: Just not his statue. The Primarchs were not forgotten. The hypocrisy of the god-worship would go double for Horus. The Emperor told them not to worship him as a god, even though they wanted to. If Horus sees a potential future where they are worshipped as gods, that would make him say, “Yay, I got what I wanted after all.” The problem is that his statue is not there.

But this is not my point. The point is that this is nonsensical information and untrustworthy. Horus was Warmaster at that point, elevated by his father above all the Primarchs. This is a fact. There is no reason for his statue to not be there. Horus would have to question that. Even worse, the information is shown by an unreliable messenger, a known liar and traitor, who has already tried to fool Horus by altering his appearance, and already jumped from several different “visions”.

It is a trick. It is an obvious trick by a known trickster. For Horus to make his decision based on this, we the readers have to accept that Horus is an idiot.

Ah, I’m glad you brought up Magnus. This reinforces my point and makes it even stronger. You’ve got the cause-event-effect backwards. Before this scene, the Emperor did not order Magnus to be killed. He had accepted Magnus into the ranks of the Primarchs. The other brothers were unhappy about his sorcery. So, the Emperor called the Council of Nikea. They had a debate about it. Yes, that’s right, the Emperor actually talked to them about it, without killing anyone. The result of that Council was that the Emperor decreed that Astropaths and Navigators were OK – these are two kinds of psykers. So, not only was it not totally outlawed, the Emperor did not even hide the fact that there was such a thing as the Warp and psychic powers.

The Emperor then went on to warn them not to mess with the Warp, that there was bad cr*p in there that they should stay away from. So Horus is armed with even more information to make him distrust that statue scene, rather than the Warp coming as a complete surprise. Added to the experience with Jubal, how could Horus possibly fall for that trick without being an idiot?

It is later, after Horus has made his decision, that the Emperor sends Russ to arrest Magnus and bring him back to Terra. Magnus was trying to send a super-fast warp message to Terra warning about what was happening to Horus: That happened while Horus was still in the dream.

And it is Horus who intercepts the command to Russ and alters it to make Russ kill Magnus – not the Emperor.

When?

I repeat: He made the decision before being healed. That was the offer.

Yeah, that’s what every servant of Chaos always thinks, every time. They all think they can outsmart it with a clever deal. This is still not the point: Horus knows he is making a deal with the devil. I repeat: He makes that deal based on untrustworthy information from an untrustworthy source. He is tricked. The trick is not convincing.

I know, but this is still not the point. He made a deal at the start because he fell for an obvious trick by a known trickster, based on a statue.

It is what it is, and I find it disappointing. This is how it might have convinced me: After that dubious scene with the statue, what if Erebus had clapped his hands and the scene changed to one where Horus’ statue is there? What if Horus’ statue is the one towering over everyone else’s? What if he is the one being worshipped as a God-Emperor? This is actually showing him something that (maybe) he wants – igniting greed/envy/pride. Erebus can admit, “This is just one possible future, so is the other one. You can make this one happen. I know some guys who can give you the power to be Emperor. Think about it: You CAN be better than your father.”

They could have offered some kind of real temptation other than a lame trick. Evidence and foreshadowing would still have made it more convincing.

It’s good you bring up Anakin: This is another example of how to do it right. Put aside whether you like the reason for his actions or not. At least we see it is based on real experiences and reasonable choices.

He knows from real experience that having the bad dreams predicted what happened with his mother. (Note the rage he displays after that – and the desire to never let it happen again).

Meanwhile, Palpatine works on him carefully and slowly for over ten years. Palps becomes a mentor and trusted advisor, all the while feeding his ego and showing him how he can do anything he puts his mind to.

In contrast, the Jedi humiliate him by not making him a Master while sitting on the Council: A very real example of them holding him back.

Even then, after Palpatine tells them there is a Force trick he can use to save Padme, Anakin still goes to Yoda for answers first. He doesn’t get the answers he wants: Yoda says, “Tough, you gotta let them go.”

Finally, he makes a choice that is based on his desire to save Padme, and there is a very real deadly threat hanging over Palpatine, right in front of him.

To put Anakin in Horus’ position, it would be like this:
First, forget everything that happened to his mother. (No foreshadowing or proof)
Second, the Jedi make him a full Master and send him after Grievous, lauding him as the greatest among them.
Third, an untrustworthy messenger whom he doesn’t really know, such as that pirate Hondo, suddenly turns up and says, “Hey, Padme is going to die tomorrow, but I know a Force trick that can save her” – backed up with an obviously staged hologram recording of her funeral.
Fourth, Anakin buys it immediately, does not check anything out with the Jedi council or Yoda, and just says, “OK, tell me.”
Hondo says, “Well, there’s a price.”
Anakin: “What?”
Hondo: “Kill all the Jedi in the galaxy, starting with Obi-wan because it’s all his fault buahahaha!”
Anakin: “OK, deal.”

Yes, agreed that would have been even lamer, if there was no actual choice at all. I don’t mind that Horus is imperfect: That’s what makes a character interesting, and is in fact central to his “fall”. It’s just that the reasoning for his choice, based on untrustworthy information from a known liar, is unconvincing.

LOL Yes, I’ve seen a few ultramarine fanboys get all upset that they are imperfect. I hope you can see that is not my problem, though. I love the 40k galaxy, with the totalitarian regime of incredible brutality. It’s a gloriously insane setting, which makes it even more disappointing that the stories coming out are so bad.


K

 

RK_Striker_JK_5

I know what you mean. As stated above, I think the Eisenhorn series is good.

 

Kurisan
You have a few points there which I agree to.
But I think we should leave it here. You dislike these books, okay I don't force you to read them. But I don't want you to talk them bad to me. Let´s just accept that we have different opinions.
It's nothing personal I just think we should end the discussion here, please.

 

Yeah, it's fine to post. Do you listen to it? I love it! They not only talk about the episodes of the show and talk to the actors/crew of the show, but also talk to actual politicians and other people who work in government.

The lapel pins we're wearing in my picture above are The West Wing Weekly pins that say "What's Next". We thought it would be fun to wear them in the actual West Wing.