PT PT Discussion of future SW Content (Locked) - Discussion Moved to Saga Board

Discussion - George Lucas and the Mystery of the Treatment | Page 327 | Jedi Council Forums

some people love to bemoan tfa because it's the gl-less sw but we don't know everything that went on and what was kept or not. it easy to be cynical and much harder to be positive. which is funny for fans of a series that promotes positivity and forgiveness

the lesson, be more positive and "let go of that which you fear to lose".

 

I stopped caring a long time ago. If I see see things I like/don't like I'm going to comment on it, like everything else.

 

As George Lucas said: They looked at the stories, and they said, 'We want to make something for the fans'. They decided they didn't want to use those stories, they decided they were going to do their own thing.

I guess a part of his treatment ideas survived, one of them, as Pablo said: George created a young woman who wished to become a Jedi. Now, there indeed is a young woman in TFA, but, to our knowledge, she doesn't know who the Jedi are and does not express a wish to become one. At the end of the movie she goes to Luke without any explanation or desire on her part so that was wasted.

Long before TFA came out, in an article about Lucas' son Jett we learned this: The Lucas family knew about a year before the Disney deal that George Lucas had started writing the sequel trilogy and that he had begun researching for the sequel trilogy and starting his whole “little process.” This is what makes Lucas' SW different from TFA. He researched for the trilogy, he put an effort to it and all because he knows what he wants: Every movie, I worked very hard to make them different. I made them completely different – different planets, different spaceships to make it new.

I think TFA is the worst SW movie so and by far. They broke two simple Lucas' rules: to research for the next movie (researching the OT doesn't count) and to make it different (different planets, different ships, different themes). Some of the ideas were good, but the execution was poor (defecting stormtrooper, Starkiller, main villain, destruction of not only Hosnian, but the entire Republic and it's fleet) and full of contrivances and plot holes.

There will be negative critics for TFA, and rightfully so, live with it.

They should've let the OT go and make a new SW movie.

 

I think the problem is that yes some characters evolved from the treatments but it doesn't mean much since according to KK, GL wasn't part of the development discussions.

Kathleen Kennedy: Well, here’s the thing. There are certain things they retained and obviously everything George created, you can imagine, every single person involved in this process hugely respects and wanted to know as much as they possibly could about the universe that he was describing. He had specific plot ideas that evolved. He sat down with me in 2012, and now it’s almost 2016, and you know the development process, where you bring writers on and once the story starts to take shape, it evolves. George wasn’t a part of those development discussions, so it was a fairly natural process of evolution. It sounds like we ignored him but that’s not really what happened.
http://www.slashfilm.com/kathleen-kennedy-interview/

 

In your humble opinion, of course. I know the TFA haters really dislike thqt i point this out, but the move was hugely successful financially, with critics, and with audiences. YOU may not have liked it, but many MANY of us did. For me it's a top three Star Wars movie. And IMO, saying they "should've let the OT go," is like saying Bond movies should let the whole spy thing go. To me, the lookk and feel of the OT is the very best part of Star Wars. You may not agree, and that's fine, but don't dismiss the those like me out of hand. I LOVED TFA, and I expect I will love TLJ.

 

Just because we are unhappy with the general direction the new trilogy took doesn't make us haters. I was deeply disappointed in TFA, but that doesn't mean I hate the movie! I just thought it could have been a lot better.

 

I think the ST should have its own feel and look. Neither PT or OT. Show the evolution between the different eras. Same rule for the anthologies, I mean look at RO, yes it was OT era but it wasn't constrained by the movies. It managed to expand the universe and of course I have some problems here and there with plots or characters but the world building was perfect. They just have to find a way to balance everything which I admit can be difficult with movies.

 

Which is the bizarre thing. R1 set in the "past" expanded the SW universe far more than TFA which is the "present" as it were but was about contracting said universe.

Exactly. TFA is the weakest SW movie I ever hope to see. It's hard to imagine that any of the movies coming out will be as weak in story, character or design elements.

The cinematography, music, sound and the overall production was fine. High marks there but the ambition and imagination that denotes Lucas' SW and was present in R1 was at a minimum presence in VII.

Now that was obviously by intention so they were successful in that respect but even taking that into the equation in terms of story and design that still leaves the characters.

If the new TFA characters were as interesting as the R1 cast then that would immediately elevate the movie. Jyn, Kassian, Chirrut and Baze, K2, Krennic and Erso. Now imagine that level of character to Rey, Finn, Poe, Hux and Phasma for a start.

I like TFA as entertainment and hope that TLJ and IX can elevate it. In no way would I ever say it ruined SW or is one of the worst movies ever made and all that other nonsense.

The way I do like it is that it's all about reliving I-VI. Which is good in one way but the thing is that we already have I-VI so the best way to relive them is to watch them.

TFA is the first (and hopefully last) SW movie that is all about explicitly reminding you about what you liked so much about the other movies by doing them in far too direct a port of them as opposed to R1 which did the same but by actually giving you something different (which is the whole point of what Lucas did).

A number of those people are also PT haters and the exact same thing happened financially, with critics and audiences.

Of course when it comes to critics the only SW films that really did well were ANH, ROTS and now TFA and R1.

 

Daisy still getting grilled for TLJ info...

 

Funny, I didnt even think the cinematography , music, or sound was any good. The horrible framing was one of the worst parts of the movie. And even some of the people who loved the movie will admit the music was lackluster. You might give them a pass since John Williams is getting old, but Im sure he didnt have the kind of collaboration with Abrams that he had with Lucas. And I had to check the credits to make sure it was Ben Burtt doing the sound. The music and sound was definitely not given any kind of priority in telling the story. There were no interesting sounds that stood out for me.

 

Meanwhile, I, and many others, think that not only did TFA introduce some great new characters and exciting new story possibities, but that it was the best looking Star Wars movie yet, and Williams'soundtrack was just spectacular. We don't have to all agree, of course, but I think the idea that R1 expands the Star Wars universe more than TFA is a bit silly.

 

The cinematography was not all bad. It was sort of an evolution of the saga after the PT. And while I liked the escape from Jakku the most, there are also some good parts (Rey on Jakku, draining the sun, duel in the forest) and some OK parts (J. J. and shaky camera moves).

As for the music, I think the character themes are OK, but there's no movie theme that I would associate with the movie.

Rogue One introduced many themes: father-daughter relationship, rivalry between the Empire's officers, a rightful cause that makes people of all sorts to fight together.

Rogue One introduced many new, unique and interesting worlds, space ships, troops.

Rogue One pushed the technology forward with it's use of CGI characters.

Rogue One broadened the scope of Rebellion and somewhat changed our perspective, like all other SW movies did. Well, except TFA.

Combine that with more mature and better written characters that actually contribute the movie, yes, Rogue One does expand the SW universe more than TFA.

 

totally agree that Rogue One expanded the SW universe more that TFA did. TFA tried its damndest to RESET the SW universe to where it was at the beginning of ANH.

 

We can disagree, I suppose about the music. I think Rey's theme, Kylo's theme, and the Jedi steps are already iconic. And the March of the Resistance has really grown into my psyche too.

Let's take you 'expanded' points as a whole first, then I will deal with individual claims. Simply adding more isn;t really an 'expansion' in my view so much as an extension. Not that extension is bad thing. It isn't. I think we all enjoyed them. But when I speak bout expansion, I am referring to to overall narrative. R1 did not expand the narrative of Star Wars at all. That was not its goal. It was intended to fill in gaps, rather than expand. Now on to your individual points.

"father-daughter relationship" That's fine, I guess, but TFA already has introduced a young woman looking for connection to family, so I guess I don't see that as big "add."

" rivalry between the Empire's officers" R1 most definitely did NOT introduce that. We see rivalry between Motti and Tagge in ANH, and of course, the dagger Adm Ozzel stares at Piett when Piett shows him up tells you about the cut-throuat atmosphere of the Imperial military.

"a rightful cause that makes people of all sorts to fight together" Already had that throughout the OT. It even wins over an mercenary like Han Solo.

"Rogue One introduced many new, unique and interesting worlds, space ships, troops." I'd agree it did. So did TFA. Now I will say we got a bit more space ship candy in R1 with the U-wing and the TIE strikers, so hopefully, we get more tasty tidbits in TLJ.

"Rogue One pushed the technology forward with it's use of CGI characters." Certainly. TFA also introduced the "cockpit on a stick" which improved the look of falcon and X-wing in-cockpit shots. And the hybrid practical/digital work on BB=8 was pretty ground-breaking too.

"Rogue One broadened the scope of Rebellion and somewhat changed our perspective, like all other SW movies did. Well, except TFA." Well, in TFA there IS no rebellion. The place of the Resistance within the galaxy is unique as compared to the Rebellion.

":Combine that with more mature and better written characters that actually contribute the movie, yes, Rogue One does expand the SW universe more than TFA." That's strictly a matter of opinion. Although I really like the R1 characters, I think the TFA characters are superior.

Some things you missed about TFA, I think, in terms of expanding the Star Wars universe:

First female Stormtroopers. Many of us have assumed they existed for a long time, but we get not only Capt Phasma, but the female trooper in SKB reporting the Ren.

Dark Side users who are not Sith. Technically we get those in the Night Sisters, but this is the first time we see them on screen.

The Church of the Force. We only get a taste at this point, but TFA is the first time we non Jedi or Sith or seem to hold the Force in some deeper regard. We get casual, "May the Force Be With You" s in the OT, but we never see it go deeper than that, and we never see it in the PT at all, pretty much.

The Knights of Ren. Again, just a taste so far, but this expands the possibility of villains in Star Wars quite a bit.

Ach-To - home of the first Jedi Temple. This will take us deeper into Jedi Lore than anything on the big screen so far.

I think TFA expands the playing field a LOT, certainly more than R1, and I think TLJ and IX will have a dramatic impact on the Star Wars universe going forward.

 

The point was about expanding Star Wars. Of course most of these threads are incomplete... we've only had one chapter of a three chapter story. But we have tons of new threads than can be pulled... more than R1 for sure, IMO. I think TFA was the first movie in LFL looking to introduce some rather big new ideas in Star Wars.

 

HAN SOLO – SMUGGLER. SCOUNDREL. HERO. A NEW STAR WARS STORY BEGINS
STRAP YOURSELF IN. PRINCIPAL PHOTOGRAPHY ON THE UNTITLED HAN SOLO STAR WARS STORY IS UNDER WAY.
Cameras are rolling on the adventure-filled past of the iconic scoundrel and everyone’s favorite Wookiee; principal photography on the untitled Han Solo Star Wars Story officially began February 20 at Pinewood Studios, London.

The movie will explore the duo’s adventures before the events of Star Wars: A New Hope, including their early encounters with that other card-playing rogue from a galaxy far, far away, Lando Calrissian.

Phil Lord and Christopher Miller are directors co-piloting the movie, with a cast that includes Alden Ehrenreich as Han Solo, Woody Harrelson, Emilia Clarke, Donald Glover as Lando Calrissian, Thandie Newton, and Phoebe Waller-Bridge, with Joonas Suotamo as Chewbacca.

“Watching such inspired people from all over the world, with such unique voices, come together for the sole purpose of making art, is nothing short of miraculous,” Lord and Miller said. “We can’t think of anything funny to say, because we just feel really moved, and really lucky.”

Written by Lawrence and Jon Kasdan, it will be produced by Kathleen Kennedy, Allison Shearmur, Simon Emanuel, and co-produced by Kiri Hart, Susan Towner, and Will Allegra. Lawrence Kasdan and Jason McGatlin will executive produce.

Crewing the ship will be some of the industry’s top talent, including Academy Award nominee for his work on Arrival, Bradford Young (Director of Photography), Chris Dickens (Editor), Dominic Tuohy (SFX Supervisor), Rob Bredow (VFX Supervisor) and Brad Allan (Action Designer).

They will be joining returning Star Wars veteran crew members Neal Scanlan (Creature & Droid FX Creative Supervisor), Neil Lamont (Production Designer), Dave Crossman and Glyn Dillon (Co-Costume Designers), Jamie Wilkinson (Prop Master), Lisa Tomblin (Hair), Amanda Knight (Make-Up) and Nina Gold (UK Casting Director).

The untitled Han Solo Star Wars Story is slated for release on May 25, 2018.

Punch it.

 

Not ANY good?

I find the cinematography style JJ employs the least appealing to me of any of the movies (R1 was excellent I thought) but going in we knew what his style was.

Some of his excesses toned done since they had become near self parody.

No, but he still did an amazing score albeit one that was held back by the re-movie that TFA was.

Now we get into extremely subjective territory. I didn't find any of the new characters great. I would rate them as fair to middling so far but hope the follow-ups can strengthen them.

They have potential that to me was only barely tapped. To me the JJ obsession with mystery held everything in the movie back.

I find it the least best looking SW movie by far. Part of that comes from the insistence to be a retread of things past instead of pushing forward.

At it's heart it wanted to be safe and secure in it's Star Wars-ness. So it was about looking like Star Wars rather than being Star Wars.

I would have a very hard time arguing for that and an incredibly easy time arguing against that. TFA went out of it's way to not introduce as many new things as it could while R1 went out of it's way to do so.

Yes TFA was all about going to where we've been already and recreate that again while R1 was open to new places or expanding places that we've already been like Yavin 4 or Mustafar.

The telling thing is the Rebel base compared to the Resistance base. The former is an expansion of the one in ANH to make it look more real than it ever could before while the latter was trying to look like the first movie again and deliberately limited itself in scale to do so.

The point is that they went out of there way to not pull them. Now sure that was deliberate on their part to not do so.

Which is why compared to the other 7 SW movies it's so out of place. I very much doubt that VIII or IX will do that and hopefully it will never happen any time soon again.

 

I'm shocked no one has brought this up.

 

STAR WARS Rogue One Home Release Pics!



Rogue One A Star Wars Story will be released as a digital release on March 24 and on DVD/Blu-ray on April 4!

 

this is a great point.

 

By the time of Rogue One, the Rebel Alliance is actually a reasonably formidable force, preparing to directly confront the Empire on a limited basis. The Resistance isn't that... at least not in TFA. The Resistance, by its nature, is small, concentrated force, intended to execute intelligence gathering and limited strikes. In many ways it is the analogue of the Rebellion before the alliance.... think Rebels era. I suspect that TLJ will see things changed considerably with the destruction of Hosnian Prime and a good chunk of the Republic fleet. My guess is that the political environment is very chaotic.

 

I'm just jumping on this discussion based on the last post to ask you to remind me why was The Resistance called that? Who were they resisting against? The First Order? The New Republic? Were they independent?

I still don't quite get it, though I haven't seen TFA in nearly a year. I guess it's time to open Wookiepedia.

 

Don't bother, the movie itself doesn't explain it (and most things) either.

 

Kasdan: What should we call the new Rebel Alliance?

Abrams: The Rebel Alliance.

Kasdan: Maybe we should try a little bit.

Intern: How about 'the Resistance'? I have a Resistance in my dystopic YA superhero Harry Potter fan fic screenplay, and it got 12 likes.

Abrams: X-Wings!!!

Kasdan: *thinks about paycheck*