CT Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, pretty laid back after seeing the droids, again.

I hear what you're saying and I'm sure thats the way TPTB viewed it when deciding to include the droids in the PT, but for me R2 and 3PO were around Obi Wan for a long time and companions of Anakins and Padme. So to me there should be some recogntion, of course thats not the fault of the original as it wasn't even decided about the prequels. Lets just say its a detail I struggle to reconcile. Much the same as the Leia one too, in our minds we can try and expalin it away with dreams and force visions etc, but it doesn't quite fit right and there was no need for it to be like that either, they could easily have made things sit right with the OT.

 

It does fit right with the OT just as right as anything. The need was there in the story or it wouldn't be that way.

 

Well, now, we only hear three Protocol droids speak in the film series. C-3PO, TC-14 and U-3PO were the only ones to speak. And remember, the Battle Droids and Super Battle Droids all sounded alike.

What, you wanted him to talk about old times? That's your sticking point? "Hey, Artoo, old buddy, old pal, how you're doing you pile of loose wires!" Hell, Han flat out ignores Threepio in TFA and doesn't say one word to him, after spending years yelling at him. Anyway, Obi-wan did spend more time with Artoo over Threepio and the latter has had his memory wiped, so it would be irrelevant. It's not even clear if he knew that Bail did or didn't do the same to Artoo. He can tell when Threepio doesn't address him as General Kenobi, but he never mastered understanding Astromechs.

So, you would be satisfied with her dying off screen, due to an undisclosed reason? That would be a satisfying end to you, just so Leia can have a few images and feelings?

 

Not necessarily, Lucas created an entire series to fill the gap between episodes 2 & 3, so why couldn't he have done the same for the gap between 3 & 4? I think a lot of people would have preferred if Padme had become the founding mother of the Rebellion.

 

Lucas did have a series in mind, but it never got made due to cost and then selling his company. But it wasn't going to be about the Alliance, rather it was going to be similar to the early parts of "Rebels", where we see the inequities and injustices of the Empire, through the eyes of the common person. Nor was he ever thinking of standalone films like "Rogue One", back when he was outlining the PT in the mid 90's, since his intention at the time was to do the PT and then move onto non "Star Wars" projects. He wasn't even thinking about doing TCW, when he was allowing Cartoon Network, Lucas Books and LucasArts to assemble the Clone Wars multimedia project.

 

This apparently would be some people's preference. Never mind that it doesn't at all fit the actual story.

So again we come down to people who prefer their version of the story over Lucas' actual story.

 

It's less about Lucas's story and just storytelling in general. A lot of good storytellers would say that killing a major character off screen is not good storytelling, especially when everything is within your control to tell the story in the right way.

 

Yes, but there were other story telling options. Like I said there was a whole gap to fill between episodes 4 to 5. The fact that Lucas had a different series in mind, doesn't change the fact, those options existed. Creating inconsistencies is generally not regardes is also not considered good story telling. Also, the way Padme died became very controversial, as the many discussions in the PT forum shows (not starting a discussion here), so I'm not so sure if killing her off screen is really the worst option.

 

You've exaggerated it to ridiculous extremes there and its fine that you're ok with it. But for me the problem doesn't lie with the original film, the droids reactions or even Bens reaction to meeting up with R2 and 3PO in the desert, because its the original that sets the rules as that came first. The problem lies with them using the droids in films set before where it establishs that he'd spent a lot of time with them, they were integral around Anakin, Padme and Obi Wan. So you now watch them in order, with the TCW if necessary, and it makes me ask the question how has Ben forgotten the droids? Can't you even comprehend that Ben would more than likely remember them? Little details like that stand out to me and no little in universe explanations or my admiration of Lucas or the writers can change, because IMO its poor writing just to shoe horn in familar characters, that throws up questions later on. It may be a small detail to some, but the devils in the detail.

You've put words in my mouth. Not once did I mention Padme dying off screen. Its another simple detail, Leia remembers her mother as images, feeling, beautiful, kind yet sad - the rules are set in Jedi. So you watch ROTS and again common sense says a new born baby would never remember her mother in that way. Its another detail that bugs me. Its fine that you can accept anything and explain anything away. Little details bug me. Like the tiny detail of Jerjerod and the use of the Jedi footage in the Empire SE for instance.

Not that anyone else was even talking about Padme dying off screen, so its not surprise you go off at a tangent again. And your final line of 'people who prefer their version over Lucas version' is the standard line you trot out regularly because you haven't got one ounce of comprehension or understanding that maybe some of the stuff presented in the PT doesn't quite sit right with what was set before. Not everyone can gloss those little details over and blindly accept anything thats put in front of them. So its got nothing to do with another version of the story, its the simple writing basics of meshing new stories with what was already set in the originals and they didn't quite achieve it. Theres no excuse not to get those basics right. Hence threads like this.

 

Yes there was.

Except that it does. It fits right as well as anything as already presented in the movies. Lucas is doing the same thing that he already did before. The only difference is that when people like it they agree when they don't like it they disagree.They don't disagree when they like it or agree when they don't.

Except when it suits them to when they like it and it fits with the story the way want it to be.

Except that didn't happen. The simple writing basics of meshing the new stories with what was already set in the originals worked. The basics were right but for those who had their own fine details it didn't adhere to what they wanted or how they assumed things should be.

Again where everything"went wrong" was having Vader turn out to be Luke's father. That is clearly ludicrous coming out of the story of ANH yet that is accepted while things of a far lesser controversy like Obi-Wan or Owen's reaction to the droids is somehow a problem.

 

Having the options and finding them necessary to employ are two different matters. Lucas didn't see the need to explain how the Alliance goes from Yavin to Hoth, which is why there was a time jump. Same way he didn't see the need to showcase Anakin's Jedi training. Those were stories that he was not interested in telling, nor as he put it, destined to tell. TCW was the result of having told his story and needing a means to make sure that Lucasfilm was still in business, which is ultimately why he started the spin off films and the ST, before selling his company.

And yes, Padme's death is controversial among fans. So was making Leia a Skywalker, after Luke lusted after her and they swapped spit. What's your point?

Again, where does he states that he knows/doesn't know who Threepio and Artoo were? You are essentially asking for him to address them as friends. That's a nitpick of the worst sort.

1. TESB, which predates ROTS, establishes that a Jedi can see things through the Force. The future, the past and old friends long gone. TPM established that Anakin saw the future without any Jedi training, calling them dreams. TFA, which comes after ROTS, establishes that Rey could see the past as she sees herself as a child and sees further back in time, to when Luke is fighting Vader on Cloud City and even hears Luke and Yoda.

2. For all we know, Jerjerrod was aboard the Executor before going to the Death Star II.

Yes, I was being humorous with that second one.

 

It's not the reaction to the droids specifically, it's the multitude of contrivances, and inconsistencies that Lucas kept piling up with each new installment, that followed TESB. The Vader reveal was a bold move, that turned the series up side down, but like the boy that calls wolf, Lucas pushed things too far in my opinion.

 

The point is, that many including myself would not use Padme's death, or the Leia is your sister reveal as examples of good storytelling. The word contrived comes to mind.

 

The point is that "Star Wars" has always generated controversy, which really isn't controversy, it's just fans whining.

 

It's people expressing opinions. Not everyone wants to crawl up... well you get the idea.

 

Having an opinion is fine. But some opinions are really weak compared to others.

 

Yeah, but who's to decide which opinions are weak and which ones are strong? That would be just another opinion. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

 

Which is fine but after doing the most outrageous thing one can imagine then adding on top of that the jamming in of Leia as the sister anything else is minor in comparison. So if you accept those two ludicrous happenings then what else compares?

Lucas was very canny in his story choices. Owen meets 3PO in a different form than he knew him before, hadn't seen him in 22 years, doesn't get his name and talks to him for a few sentences. Obi-Wan isn't going to let on he knows R2 or 3PO, Obi-Wan took it upon himself to train Anakin etc etc. It all broadly works.

Star Wars is part comedy and Lucas did a lot of things that amused him like R2 being a top of the line droid on Naboo while 3PO came from spare parts put together by Anakin.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think Lucas is a master story teller, with a unique talent for visual story telling, but I think it's interesting that when it comes to little details, he appears uninterested for lack of a better word. He sort of creates a puzzle with beautifully hand crafted pieces, where astonishingly the pieces sometimes don't quite fit. He seems to take the position, that the beauty of the shape of the puzzle piece is more important, than how it fits with the other pieces.

 

No I'm saying I don't think they should have all been paired together in the PT. Thats my nitpick. Why add them when in the original hes oblivious to them as clearly it was originally intended that he'd never met them before. Yet the PT made it so that he actually knows them really well.

Its a good explanation. I just struggle to accept that she would recall her mothers brief glimpse when she was a newborn and we have to assume that Leia was strong enough in the force to have those force visions that Yoda was training Luke to see in Empire.

Well a weak opinion to you is not to someone else. Yours is not the be all and end all you may think it is. On the one hand you have people not liking small details that seem contrived or inconsistent, to not liking the list of character contrivances the PT threw up and then you have others like Qui who doesn't seem a fan of the Vader father angle yet likes the fact Vader built 3PO. We all differ.

 

I really don't see how he is uninterested in little details. It's based on those that he can do things like Owen and 3PO. Those details are why he can have 3PO on the farm for years and Owen not recognize him. Things like assuming that Obi-Wan must have identified Anakin which was never said. Lucas knew that all these details were not filled in and so took advantage of that.

 

"Anakin was a good friend. When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot, but I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong."

Yet in TPM Obi-Wan does not take it upon himself to train Anakin. He was against training Anakin, and tried to convince Qui-Gon not the defy the council, even going so far as to call the boy dangerous. Ultimately he only agrees to train Anakin to fulfill his master's dying wish. The piece doesn't quite fit.

"That boy is our last hope. No, there is another."

The OT makes it pretty clear, that Obi-Wan is not aware of Leia's connection to Luke and the Force, until Yoda reveals this to him. Yet, in the PT Obi-Wan witnesses the birth of the twins. Did he just forget about Leia? The piece doesn't quite fit.

Before the release of TPM all Jedi that die, become one with the Force, and can return in spirit form. The PT establishes you need to learn this trick, so how did Anakin know how to become a Force ghost? The piece doesn't quite fit.

In ANH R2 -D2 is seen akwardly walking down some stairs. In the PT R2-D2 can fly. Why doesn't he use this in the OT? Seems pretty useful. The piece doesn't quite fit.

ANH:

"For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic."

AOTC:

"I will not let this Republic that has stood for a thousand years be split in two!"

Evidently, the two statements conflict. The piece doesn't quite fit.

So, I maintain, that Lucas is not all that interested in the details. If he were, these inconsistencies would not exist.

 

Yoda told Obi-Wan about the other. Although the audience is kept in the dark, it's logical to assume Yoda filled Obi-Wan in about the details, so there was no inconsistency there until ROTS.

The Anakin becoming a Force ghost inconsistency remains. How did Anakin know how to do it?

Yes, there's a factor of 25 difference between a 1,000 years and a 1,000 generations. 25,000 years is quite a bit longer than 1,000 years. Imagine a US President stating the US was founded 15 years ago. This amounts to the same thing.

 

I don't remember the toaster I had twenty years ago and wouldn't remember it if I saw it today. Droids are ubiquitous and inconsequential in the GFFA.