Lit Reading chronology is important. Publication Schedules are More so.

To be fair, I have friends who struggle with Rogue One largely because of pre-existing existential anxieties, to the point that it sours the fun of the film for them.

 

This is an interesting thread for sure. I think the problem isn't necessarily having Ep.7 come out before the preceding material, but more that Disney is trying to make sure nothing that happens between 6&7 is a bigger event than the movies themselves. The Old EU was more bold and filled the universe with no knowledge or care with what would come after.

Now the fiction in this era all has Ep.7 looming over its head, and it seems to be acting timid because of it. To me, the NEU Lit is really afraid to do much with any important characters, events, or places. Aftermath Trilogy's scope is dwarfed by TTT.

But to bring this back to the topic at hand, the publication date is irrelevant. The stories are all now flowing into one canon dictated by the all-powerful Story Group. Since everything is decided by them, I don't think it matters much when they publish one story versus another, because the stories are no longer affected by eachother. Everything is already pre-decided.

I think I veered off too much, I think I might make a new thread discussing the Story Group.

 

TTT may be a bigger story--though that could be debated--but the one thing of lasting consequence that happens to the Big Three, the birth of Han and Leia's child, is the same thing that happens to them in Aftermath. Beyond that, Luke doesn't train any Jedi, the war with the Empire doesn't end (which it does in Aftermath), nothing really changes for anyone in the way you seem to be suggesting. That was the problem with the EU; nothing ever really changed.

 

...we were? Because I think I read it for Obi-Wan.

 

I see what you mean. And I'm definitely not trying to put 90's era EU on a pedestal here, because it has its dark and bright spots. Nor am I trying to debate which is better between the Aftermath Trilogy and the Thrawn Trilogy (because its not a debate at all).

I would argue though that the Thrawn Trilogy, and the 90's era EU flippantly abused the SW Universe. Anything could happen, and we could never tell what was next. From Palpatine's Clone, to Gethzerion, to Waru, to Luke's wild Jedi Trainees. This didn't always work out so well, and some of those stories sucked, but they were bold and I never knew what was going to happen next. When it worked, the payoff was awesome I think.

The NEU seems to have a paved road to TFA. They literally called it 'Journey to TFA' at one point. Some stories have been good, others bad, but none have surprised me. The content all seems like its limited and structured. And it really is. The Story Group is confining every story to meld so perfectly with the next, I think they are restricting creative flow.

If a Story Group made every 90's era book lead towards Vector Prime then we never would have made it to Vector Prime because they would have sucked. The creative 'lazes-faire' EU environment gave birth to some mainstays of the Saga. This Story Group will suffocate the 6 to 7 era and it will become forgettable.

 

That's... not an accurate or fair statement at all. Luke trained a new generation of Jedi, Han and Leia had kids, the New Republic took Coruscant, the Galactic Civil War was brought to an end with peace accords, dozens of events with lasting consequences happened in the NJO, the Empire started fighting alongside the heroes, Luke got married, he and Mara had a kid, Jacen went dark and died and never came back... nothing ever really changed in the EU? What? You were on track with your TTT analysis and its lack of lasting consequences, but that can't be said for the entire EU. Not by a longshot.

The Story group isn't a tenth of a the big deal that people make it out to be. There's always been a story group --- even in the old EU, authors would be invited to Skywalker Ranch to discuss their book with a group that included Sue and Shelly. Luceno hammered this home in a number of interviews he did when Tarkin was released, stressing that the writing process was no different than before and that he still had the same freedom that he had always had. The "Story Group" only seems like a big deal now because they chose to start marketing it that way.

 

I'm glad you make that point very straightforwardly. I've felt troubled by the way some stories have depicted tragedies, and on other occasions felt that a tragedy that is particularly well executed can, in a strange way, be uplifting. But this in turn will make me question my reaction, and I'll find myself with a general feeling of disapproval toward the universe in general.

Some people have mentioned Rogue One. I kind of knew the trajectory of the characters' journey, going into the movie, or greatly suspected. The echo of talk and rumor was too loud. Knowing or suspecting, I was able to relax my expectations and resign myself to what might be coming, and as is often said, "enjoy the journey". And I felt sadness, but it wasn't unbearable. And then my parents and I set aside a day to be Rogue One day, because they hadn't seen it. Completely unspoiled. And my Dad was, I think, deeply disturbed, and seemed to put up a vocal front of not being as troubled as I think he was, while my Mom ended up reacting with a sort of "this took me out of the movie" disapproval when CGI Leia was handed the torch to fly off into the next movie.

To go off on another tangent, there's a curious impression I get that people think storytelling that bounces around chronologically is not normal, before SW. I've read comments and talk to people who really seem to feel like SW brought this idea about. Maybe we can credit SW with popularizing it. I think a lot about Rudyard Kipling's The Jungle Book. The first story covers a large jump of time, and ends with the killing of a major character. Other stories move forward from that incident in Mowgli's life. But there are other stories that fit somewhere inside the paragraph that says "A lot of time passed, and Mowgli grew much older", these are stories that fit into a weird status quo that never existed, because the first Mowgli story had already pushed forward the narrative to a certain point. And that character that died keeps popping up in later stories that are set inside of that first one.

Anyway, interesting discussion topic. I kind of understand the chronological preference, but I've seen some really worthwhile implementation of non-linear storytelling.

 

Lol. Ok then. Your reasoning is just so nonsensical I questioned your sincerity. My bad. Have at it.

Sent from my Moto X-Wing

 

This is a somewhat unfair assessment of the Story Group, IMO. Lucasfilm has not always had a team specifically tasked to ensure that story threads across multiple media are consistent and cohesive. It is a big deal, actually - moreso given how much success they've actually had doing it.

 

I think story group is okay. but I don't like a series written by different authors. Author A wants Ben with Tahiri, then Author B wants Ben with Vestara, C wants both of them dead....

I want to read author A's series with Ben and Tahiri together
Then I want to read B's series with B/V
Then I want to read C where they are both dead.

However, no way would I want to read a series where A and B and C rotate until I don't even know the location where Ben is.

 

The thing of lasting consequence was the EU. And I don't mean that flippantly - the official continuation of the story of Star Wars was a big deal, but even more so was laying the foundation of the Star Wars universe itself - the integration of West End Games' RPG, which created a rich, detailed background on their own due to the sparseness of the movies, while not being under any pretension at the time of establishing canon - and which was mostly copy/pasted into the new Star Wars universe. Plus, we were introduced to some of the most iconic EU characters in that trilogy.

If you're referring to just the in-universe, well... it's difficult to make a comparison at this stage. Certainly taking TLC at face value, the Empire is finished... it's the integration of Dark Empire which essentially undid everything. Will Del Rey resist the temptation to throw in an "Empire Resurgent" series in the blank years between Aftermath and Ep7? Your guess is as good as mine, but seeing as what they followed up The Unifying Force with, I'm not holding my breath.

 

Pablo and Leland were essentially doing that in the The Clone Wars era of the latter-day EU. They worked a lot with Filoni as continuity advisors while also doing the same thing with the novel and comic teams. They didn't have the official title of 'Story Group,' but their role seems to have been functionally the same. The current story group does do continuity work with the films, true --- today's Vanity Fair piece said the following:

... but the post I quoted from Dread Pirate Roberts expressed a belief that the Story Group decides everything, which is a decidedly untrue belief that some people still seem to maintain. The Vanity Fair piece also says:

I think it's pretty cool that they turn to the Story Group for continuity advice on the films. I also think that the main reason we never saw something like this during the prequels was the different nature of the beast --- the current run of films is a collaborative project between many people, while in pre-Disney SW everything fell under George Lucas's "vision." The prequels were his vision alone. When it came to novels, Howard Roffman was the guy who would dictate that "vision" to authors if they were being too ambitious (Luceno has said as much in interviews about the development of Darth Plagueis). The guy could make a joke to Jon Stewart and it would be declared canon in a manner that seemed almost depressingly sycophantic. The old story group did as much as they could, but Lucas being on top meant that they could only do so much.

The current Story Group's work with the films is a big deal, since the limitations of a Lucas-run franchise couldn't have allowed that, but when it comes to keeping the modern EU cohesive, there's a precedent for that. And Dread Pirate Roberts's claim that "everything is decided by them" is just plain amusingly false.

 

Jeff_Ferguson I appreciate the thorough response, and believe me I actually agree with you. I understand the nature of the Story Group and how they interact with the films and the authors. I've been a big fan of Leland Chee for a long time. I've always thought the 'Holocron' was super cool.

But I think you may have misunderstood me. With the NEU we've got 13 or so new novels? I don't know the exact number, but I've read them all.

Of all those new books, only four are of 'precedent setting' importance. Those are the 3 Aftermath books and Bloodline by Claudia Gray. These four books are important because they are the only ones that venture into the space between 6 & 7. All the other books are exploring eras that are largely known. Between 3&4 is pretty unknown, but its nothing when compared to the post-ROTJ era.

I have stated before that the Story Group is constricting creative flow of the NEU and I stand by that. This era is ripe for the picking, but we've only got two separate stories from it? (Aftermath and Bloodline)

For both of these stories, and you can check this, the authors were approached with the premise. If i have the date right, Chuck Wendig was approached in September 2014 (or soon after) about the Aftermath book trilogy. Title was chosen, and the basic plot points were there: Battle on Jakku, End of Empire, etc. (all from the Story Group). Claudia Gray was approached by Jennifer Heddle similarly for Bloodline. I love that book, it is great. But the basic plot ideas were again presented to Gray, and she then created the story.

This is the precedent setting era (post-ROTJ). And so far, they have kept the era nearly locked down (similar to GL's lockdown of the clone era) and the only stories presented in this era have been ideas of the Story Group and not of the authors themselves. This shows the Story Group does have a degree of control that they aren't advertising. I know that this sort of thing happened all the time in the old EU, but they were smaller cases of lesser importance. This is different. This is the Story Group constricting creative Star Wars content.

The worst part about all of this, I believe, is that the Story Group is so concerned with cohesiveness and continuity, they aren't concerned with whether or not they are allowing great material to be produced! The Story Group never would have dreamed up TTT or Dark Empire, or the Vong war, or Tales of the Jedi. The Story Group will stunt the growth of Star Wars, maybe even suffocate it.

 

If the Story Group doesn't pitch post-ROTJ novels to authors, it's not out of any nefarious agenda or because they're more concerned with cohesiveness than great material. It's because the thirty years in between Endor and Starkiller Base are a tricky area in which to play until Episodes VIII and IX come out. It's too early for any story about Luke's Jedi Academy to be written until the films give us more details about that Academy --- if in The Last Jedi he utters even two sentences about the Jedi he trained, those two sentences could easily be the basis for a novel at some point. I don't doubt that the story of Kylo and the Knights of Ren slaughtering Luke's Jedi students will one day be told, but that day can't come until the movies have nothing more to say about it. No, the Story Group aren't favoring continuity over story; they're simply waiting until they're able to tell that story. Frankly I'm surprised that we were able to get the events of Bloodline already.

Zahn's trilogy was pitched to him by a story group. The people at Bantam Spectra contacted him in 1989 and asked if he would be interested in writing the trilogy. And the Vong War was 100% the product of a committee think tank (see here and here). The reason we can't have a Vong War right now in the new EU is because the films are what are currently driving the future of the franchise. Star Wars is growing exponentially, but in movie rather than novel form. The novels have less freedom to blaze the future than the NJO did, but that future is still being blazed, just in a different medium. The Story Group won't stunt or suffocate a franchise that's producing a new film every year. SW will be fine.

 

Jeff_Ferguson
I completely stand by my claim that the Story Group will suffocate creativity. The fact alone that there hasn't been a bold story told since 2014 is proof enough of that. Although, I recognize that's just my opinion there.

Also Zahn was pitched the idea by Bantam-Spectra, not Lucasfilm. That's the key difference. Vong War was a product of collaboration between publishers and authors. This Story Group is not composed of storytellers or publishers, just those whose interest is in keeping Star Wars coherent.

But really only time will tell here. In five to ten years we can compare the EU to the NEU, and honestly I hope you are right. But it is too early to tell.

 

There are definitely some slightly askew ideas floating around in this thread about what Story Group does. They are neither passive continuity police nor the all-powerful dictators of Star Wars storytelling, squashing creativity and bold ideas wherever they may be found.

Try thinking of Story Group as the Abel G. Pena of canon. Abel specialized in "continuity spackle," creating the illusion of coherence and continuity out of the fragmented EU. Story Group's role is to do that, but proactively -- baking the continuity into the stories while they're being created, not after the fact. They don't control what stories that are pitched, approved, or written, but they do take an active hand in ensuring the stories fit well into the larger canon.

 

One would think, then, that the StoryGroup would've benefited by having Abel G. Pena.

 

I just don't understand why TFA have to be 30 years ABY, they kind of ruin everything in between. There is no excitement enough (incentive to read, huh, I wonder what happens to this character I like. Oh wait, I already know, she's dead)
I'll give it time, but I don't want to see episode 10 11 12 setting in 100 ABY and new books come out in between those labeled journey to episode 10!
Yes NEU needs more time to mature. I'm willing to give it that time, but they need to release everything in chronological order to keep my interest.

 

Because Mark, Carrie and Harrison aged 30+ years in the intervening 30+ years?

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So the only thing that matters when it comes to a given character is whether they live or die? That seems like a very limiting approach to consuming content.

If you're looking for material to be released in strict in-universe chronological order, my apologies but you have definitely hitched your cart to the wrong franchise.

 

I completely agree. He's a walking encyclopedia of Star Wars minutia, probably on par with Pablo. But that said, for the reasons I noted above they don't really need his "spackling" services, either.

 

I would have to disagree - while the narrative is new, the foundation of SW (names of corporations, planets, alien races, the galactic map) established over the decades is still there. And Pena was a gifted storyteller beyond the ability to think of clever ways to put disparate elements together, not to mention someone who could quickly provide information to authors about any NEU background information they needed.

There's also Fry, Wallace, and Luceno, all of whom would've been excellent additions for similar reasons.