ST Diversity in the Sequel Trilogy (see warning on page 11)

Well:

Spoiler

The Leia novel implies that Vice Admiral Holdo is bisexual. So they could maybe reference that in the film. They probably won't, but it's there.

 

I have a strong feeling that at some point we'll either be getting films, or TV shows, set during the post-ROTJ period. So Sloane has a shot, I think.

Yeah, but Hela seems to fit the "evil ice queen/ witch" trope, which we've seen in the Chronicles of Narnia, 101 Dalmatians, Wizard of Oz, MacBeth, Ran (Kurosawa's adaptation of King Lear), Game of Thrones, Jurassic World, and countless other stories. So that's why I want to see a lot more female heroines before we see a lot more female villains. Unless, as I mentioned, the female villains are of a different mold than the typical scheming, manipulating type. Some more blunt force female villains, perhaps.

 

Yeah but at least it's Hela and not Enchantress in Thor. I love Amora but the first female lead villain should be one who is not trying to bone the hero. Then again they could have done female Loki like JMS did which would have rocked. But seriously this might be off topic but comics seriously have a problem of either the "evil ice queen/witch" or "just wants to be loved by the hero" archetypes for their female villains. Like name a Batman female villain who is not one of those two, all I can think of is Shiva

 

I'm fine with diversity in a Star Wars movie. That's really not the problem, though. But if he or she can't act or they start butchering their lines because of a language barrier then I'm going to have a problem with casting someone diverse.

 

A White/Male actor can do that just as easily.

 

Have you seen the male villains? "I'm either cartoonishly evil, diabolically evil or an evil asshat"

I agree that you find more male villains but those in general are extremely trope-y. The unique ones aren't really villains at all, just rogue.

The evil ice queen/manipulative type is just as common as the ones I pointed out.

 

Diversity doesn't have to mean black or white...it could be someone foreign.

 

Yeah but the issue is that most female villains fall into sexist stereotypes. A villain like the Joker is not a harmful stereotype of masculinity that degrades men (you could say that he is problematic for representation of the mentally ill and even homosexuality certainly though), but Joker or Lex or sinestro do no perpetuate sexist ideas of men. The fact that most female villains are either into the male lead and have trouble deciding between him and their cause, use their sexuality as a weapon to manipulate which perpetuates the sexist way men see women as being cruel manipulators or is just used as an excuse for the artist to draw a practically nude woman, and then the ice queen stereotype which plays into another sexist idea in culture that women are prudes and are shrews.

There is no problem with a character like Hela or a character like Catwoman inherently, but there is an issue with almost every female villain playing into sexist ideas men have about women. Yeah there are villains that embody toxic masculinity but those are there to combat social problems. Ivy's characterization is hardly there to combat how men look at women. She instead is essentially a perversion of feminism and strong women. Now there are exceptions to this like the issue of Gotham Central with Ivy or her role in the new 52. My point is just that cartoonishly evil male villains and other types of male villain stereotypes are not remotely as problematic or symptom of a larger social issue as female villain archetypes

 

Agreed. Getting WOCs all kinda of acting roles is important but we really need to have more of them in the forefront with no makeup or CG. It's important to directly show the audience the diversity. A little black girl might not know Maz is played by an actress who she can look up to, by having KMT in the role of Rose the diversity and inspirational potential of the character is more direct.

Also if Black Panther does not do INSANE at the box office I am gonna be so freaking angry

 

Why? There are a dozen reasons why Black Panther could do "just okay" other than racism.

 

Exactly, thank you

 

I think LFL/Disney has done pretty well so far. Casting a Female and a POC as the 2 new Protagonists in their 1st movie of the new trilogy should be applauded considering the money they invested. Rogue 1 also had a very diverse ensemble cast.

 

Adam Driver is white.

 

I think Adam played Kylo, not Finn.

 

But Rian said....

 

I don’t know what movie Rian watched but Kylo is obviously the villain of TFA

 

Conflicted....

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/905544308085874688
https://mobile.twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/905544619252793344

 

Vader: So you're saying that if I hit Express on this microwave, it'll heat up my coffee faster?

 

Rian Johnson
@rianjohnson


Replying to @thexlastxjedi
Finn is absolutely a main protagonist also.

 

I think that the confusions comes from some of the people involved referring to Rey and Kylo as "almost co-leads." And Finn being so underplayed in the marketing so far. Also the people involved have been saying things that seem contradictory with each other in-general.

 

lol lady shiva just whoops everyone. Female xmen villains don't really fall into that trope though. Deathstrike, Cassandra Nova, and emma frost (before reformation), etc.


How is kylo ren called a "protagonist" in any context? a "male lead"? sure, it certainly looks that way, but a "main protagonist"?

 

Yep. As far as I’m concerned, Kylo Ren is an antagonist if we’re going by what these terms actually mean. There may be redemption at some point down the line (not sure how I feel about that, but happy to reserve judgement until I see how it plays out) but there’s no question that at least as far as TLJ’s opening goes, he begins the film as antagonist. Maybe a more nuanced, pained antagonist, but an antagonist all the same.