ST Rian Johnson to write and direct Episode VIII (and also new SW Trilogy - see page 194)

It would still exist, and the rest of the military and politicians wouldn’t immediately cease to exist.

 

Very solid explanation of the OT on-screen. The galaxy rolled over and played dead though because the FO's weapon of mass destruction has destroyed an entire System, including the Republic, and because it's only been about 2-3 days tops since that happened by the time TLJ ends. When something that big happens the first question probably becomes, "How the heck did those guys stay hidden out there without us knowing about it?" and then the second question becomes, "What else do they have waiting for us and is it wise to attack them?" A system was destroyed. That is going to make some people think twice and want to check their intel and public support.

I think the other allies are still on that second question. It's only been a few days. It can't be overstated how much of a loss it is that Fisher is gone for so many reasons but IX was clearly being setup as her film not only for her diplomatic skills but also with her son in the end. This is a huge loss to the ST and Star Wars in storytelling. D'Acy is going to have to do a lot of the heavy lifting now in that regard. Anyway, I digress. D'acy is likely going to have to go to her father in the Outer Rim. He's likely their first contact. He's a military leader out there and they will have to start building alliances and convincing the public that the FO can be beaten.

 

The only reason why the First Order got as far as it did was because the writers wanted the Rebels... I mean Resistance to be the underdog again. And thus, the StoryGroup had to deliberately make the New Republic weak and with a glaring achilles heel. The fact that Snoke wasted his time chasing the Raddus instead of crushing any New Republic fleets that may pose a threat to him in the future suggests that blowing Republic capital is all that it takes. Otherwise, Snoke is very stupid indeed.

 

I agree. I almost wonder why Snoke/ FO even needed the planet-destroying Starkiller base in the first place. At first Snoke seems vary of the potential NR and the return of Luke's new Jedi, so he goes through all this insane trouble and build up to take them on. If the NR has no real fleet, or because they're in peacetime, they demilitarized themselves to the point that the ST shows us, and they're so stupid as to not spread their government out a little, well, then ... why not just take a few ships and knock on the front door. I'm almost certain that the weak NR leaders probably would have just handed over the keys, if Snoke asked nicely enough.

 

So this is the official answer to every complaint now?

 

If it is. It will be very different.

 

Obviously not. In fact, I laid out pretty clearly in that post and the follow-up the only types of hypocritical complaints where that thought comes to mind for me (and possibly others)

 

Honestly, for my money, I'd like him as far away from anything which can impact the greater "universe" as possible. Given his previous works (Brick, Looper, Breaking Bad) and the foregoing desire, I'd like to see him do some noir mystery thing based on galactic detectives and murder or some such. Something like Zahn's Icarus Hunt (for those familiar).

 

As the thread with RJ responding to criticism has been locked, I’ll post this here. Good Ole Ryan.

http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2018/01/rian-johnson-humorously-responds-to.html

 

Yes because the entire First Order fleet went after the Resistance?

 

The entire fleet? Did the scroll title say that? No. Any other evidence from TAOTLJ, VD, or interviews?

 

Yeah, that's not the entire fleet after the Resistance.

Also, can we please stop this ridiculous "the only reason this happens is because that's the story the SG wanted to tell" lamentation? Of course it is. That's how every single second of every single SW story (and every other film) is constructed. Its all made up. None of it is real. There is no New Republic or pre TFA state of the galaxy bar what the story tells us. So the Republic being blind to the threat of the FO and having their fleet atomised without firing a shot so the Resistance becomes the underdog is of course why that happens. Pointing that out means absolutely nothing.

Change of subject - and as a disclaimer, there is valid criticism of the film, it's OK not to like it, and the below in no way applies to a the moderate critics or those who simply weren't interested in the story choices RJ wanted to explore.

BUT...

I'm loving seeing the online pushback from RJ, Pablo and others.

A significant chunk of the complaints being hurled at them are either ridiculous nitpicks that you could apply to any of the films, or people missing what's in the film, or completely ignoring it.

As for "if the film was good he wouldn't have to defend it" line of thought. Horse****. If more people paid attention or didn't need on the nose exposition to signpost every nuance or detail then he wouldn't have to point out what's already in the film. RJ says he feels that everything in the film supports itself, and for the most part, I think he's right. People thinking it doesn't, doesn't mean they're automatically right. So many of the comments lobbed at RJ are embarrassing. Insults aimed by idiots who somehow think they understand story. And som many of the comments (and his responses) highlight just how ridiculous the notion that RJ somehow didn't put any thought into any of TLJ really is.

I would love to see the most vocal haters put their version of a good SW film out in front of millions of people and see it get shredded. So many of the "improvements" are ludicrous.

 

The thing is RJ could have got this covered if instead of the opening battle being the Resistance fleeing it had been a battle featuring the remnants of the New Republic fleet and the Resistance but show the FO as having the upper hand and defeating them. Just a couple of lines of dialogue would have closed down all the discussion and confusion about what happened to the New Republic etc and you could actually show the FO consolidating their position and wiping out what remains of the opposition. Snoke/Hux/Kylo could then receive transmissions from the other free planets/systems all surrendering/capitulating in the face of their military might. Simple! As it stands having this "just happen" off screen without any explanation just doesn't feel right and leaves too many open questions.

 

So Luke's new Force power was from the EU.
Edit:

 

I

Yes. When Disney redefined canon, they said future writers could borrow from it. Once incorporated into post-Disney acquisition material, it’s canon.

So:

Rakuta
Bendu
Thrawn
Jedi doppelgänger

The Jedi Path and The Book of Sith? Playing KOTOR? RJ is such a SW nerd.

 

I'm going to pin any lack of clarity on the world building on TFA to be honest. The Republic fleet is (albeit very briefly) shown being incinerated and the attack on SKB suggests the Resistance is really all that's left.

You then have the crawl to TLJ which makes it clear enough that the FO is taking control and that the Resistance is all that stands against them.

"The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys his merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy.

"Only General Leia Organa’s band of RESISTANCE fighters stand against the rising tyranny, certain that Jedi Master Luke Skywalker will return and restore a spark of hope to the fight."

Taken at face value, that's clear. Rey then spells out the stakes even further when speaking to Luke. I think most people would accept the above crawl as a fairly unequivocal description of the stakes in TLJ.

"why does Snoke need SKB"?

Wiping out the Hosnian system decapitates the Republic in one blow, wiping out the majority of the galaxy's political leadership and destroying the republic fleet and military.

The whole point is that the rest of the galaxy is so cowed by that pre-emptive strike and the follow up blitzkrieg strike by Snoke's merciless legions that they submit within days and weeks.

We're only seeing a fraction of his merciless legions going after the Resistance. The rest are blazing through a terrified galaxy, bringing systems swiftly to heel.

With all of this stuff, there is a trade off - and it's a trade off I don't think people who have never had to tell a story, especially in film - fully understand. Yes, you could spell all this stuff out. But each time you do, you're risking deflating the drama and the pacing and the emotions of the more important stories you're focusing on. I appreciate that there is a balance, and that for some this lack of detail undermines the overall stakes and draws them out of the story - but that differing mileage is crucial. Yes, some want more "logic" or backstory to fill in gaps. Doing so would drag for others, or seem needless to others. Getting the balance 100% right, I would argue, is almost impossible, given the different things people demand from their SW.

I think TLJ starts from a place of taking TFA as read. If there's any table-setting issues with the ST, I think it comes from JJ not making things clear enough there. But I guarantee there will be further stories that flesh this stuff out at some point, and while that will never mean this stuff "was in the movies" once people know, they will know - exactly as was the case with the clone wars or the vast majority of the OT state of the galaxy and backstory, very little of which is actually onscreen either. And most people won't really care either way.

 

Yep in story terms (and being the film RJ and LFL wanted to make) that is indeed explained. Also agree that the world building should have been better established in TFA without doubt.

My complaints in this regard are that it actually makes little sense and, as I said above, with small tweaks could have been better and stopped all this debate.

@Satipo saying "The Republic fleet is (albeit very briefly) shown being incinerated" is an understatement. I had to literally freeze the DVD to see those tiny specs that are the Republic fleet. At the cinema I didn't even notice because it was so brief. Yes Hux's speech declares the intent. However, anyone coming at this from only watching PT and OT films will have no understanding that this single system is the Republic or will assume it must be Coruscant. Also begs the question, why would even a demilitarised Republic with a tiny fleet keep their entire fleet orbiting a single world? It makes no sense.

Whereas having the remnants of the Republic fleet involved in the opening space battle of TLJ and being defeated covers most of those awkward questions without needing to change the story by any great degree.

 

No it's more like Rian didn't bother to try and line up with what happened in TFA (which came FIRST) BTW. So he doesn't get a pass for it.

He jus did what he wanted and to heck with it making sense with what came before.

 

And this was deliberate. J.J said that he didn't want to overexplain stuff.

 

You could do that, sure, but if you're writing and directing the story (and you wrote the script based on the TFA script which lays all that out), I can totally see why you'd assume those details are now established. TBH, if it was me I would have made the Hosnian system Coruscant. I think that short hand might have sold the stakes better. But there are things I would do differently in all the films bar ANH and ESB.

 

The ST suffers from a lack of worldbuilding overall.

 

And therein lies a big problem with JJ as a writer-director, he takes lazy short cuts or includes things that he thinks are cool (his stupid mystery boxes) and then leaves the mess for others to sort out because he actually has no idea what they mean himself... Such as Lost!

 

And unfortunately, Rian did the same thing here as well.

 

OK, I just watched the Hux/ SKB speech again.

He makes it pretty clear if you take what he says as a given (which doesn't seem unfair to me).

He says the strike will "bring an end to the senate, to their cherished fleet".

"All will bow to the First Order and will remember this as the last day of the Republic!"

This is after he has already said with the Republic destroyed, the Resistance will be vulnerable.

We do then see the Hosnian system destroyed and - yes - too quickly - the fleet is destroyed too, just as he said it would be.

Finn then says it was the Republic and the FO did it.

If there was a place to put in more dialogue, I think that might be one place.

But, during the Resistance briefing, Threepio clearly says "Oh my, without the Resistance fleet, we're doomed".

There is no resistance fleet remnant in TLJ.

From the POV of TLJ, the entire fleet wiped out onscreen in TFA, as promised by Hux.

Could this have been clearer? Maybe, yes.

But it is in the films.

I think if there is a problem here, it's that the political set up with the ST is a little more complex than the OT. Effectively the ST is pre the invasion of Poland. The OT is in the middle of WW2.

The latter is easier to grasp.

But, in TLJ, we're already in the invasion of France *

I think if you take what the film tells us as read, it's all in there. Sure, we don't know how Snoke took leadership of the FO, or how exactly they rebuilt in the Beyond. But the film is not telling us that story.

*Crait is Dunkirk lol.