ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Well, Kylo tells her one version, Luke tells her another during her lesson, and she gets the truth after she's gotten involved and everything's gone downhill. Made sense in context to me.

I suppose, among other things.

All that was explained in the film. Whether one likes the explanations may be another thing.

It's been hardwired into the series since TFA.

Which movie did I see?

For what it's worth, I did think that her being willing to listen to Kylo needed more connective tissue. However, her "obsession" with the past was otherwise explained and integrated into her story.

Apples and oranges.

That's not how the Force works.

That would be the rocks.

It did both.

Uh huh.

As we saw in the final movie, Chewie had less success then Rey did.

No, that's huge part of Luke's story arc and the theme of the movie.

Hmm, I suppose it could work, but you'd need a lot of re-writes to get it. (I think it also misses the point that Kylo killed Snoke mostly for his own benefit.)

Finn's relationship with Rey is the catalyst for the beginning of his story in this film and the rest of Poe and Rose's involvement is already divorced from Rey's role as is.

Minus all the experience she'd picked up along the way, not to mention the Jedi stuff, which is the thematic centerpiece to the whole movie.

 

@WebLurker Most of your responses aren’t responses at all so I’m not sure why you bothered separating comments out just to individually not respond directly. You did directly respond a few times so I’ll address those by themselves without the giant quoting tool.

Re: Chewie having less success than Rey - no he had the same lack of success that Rey had. It didn’t need to be Rey failing to get Luke back into the fold. At least Luke knows Chewie and cares for him.

Re: Luke’s arc hating the Jedi - he also could have expressed his contempt for the Jedi and their ways to anyone. It didn’t have to be a young force sensitive he didn’t want to teach. The exact same thing could be accomplished through exposition instead of to Rey, to Leia through the force, to Chewie, to ghostYoda. It didn’t even make any sense for Rey to be interested in these lessons about why the Jedi are terrible. She was there to help the Resistance and learn about the force, not to listen to an old cynic rant and rave.

Re: Kylo killing Snoke mostly for his own benefit, yeah I was being generous saying Leia was needed. Nobody was actually needed and Kylo would have looked stronger and cooler as a villain if the usurping moment wasn’t couched in teenage angst and lying to Hux about it. The way it happened was weak, but that’s besides the point that Rey wasn’t needed for it.

Re: the Resistance heroes fighting TIEs directly, I really don’t get your point. I think you’re saying it’s better that they flew out with zero purpose or strategy because otherwise Rey would have had nothing to do. Which, yeah, is exactly my point. They’re dumb so Rey could be a hero. Again, you could take her out and our Resistance fighters could have actually engaged in some dog fighting. It would have been better for the story and our band of heroes.

Rey didn’t learn anything about the Jedi from Luke. She listened to him rant and rave, and per the director and the apparent message of the movie, Luke was wrong in his rantings. At the end of the day, Rey ends where she began - pro-Jedi, pro-Resistance, having gained nothing but a bit of insecurity after Kylo belittled her right after using her to steal the throne right after leading her to be tortured right after she set out to very possibly die for him because *reasons.

 

There is literally nothing between these characters that warrants a relationship.
In Rian's attempts to force the audience to sympathize with Kylo Ren, he completely forgot to give Rey any kind of purpose or personal motive.

 

I think it was a middle finger to the fans who had Rey parentage theories

 

I said that if she has no internal struggle and no emotional conflict then she is just a hero with boobs. What's so difficult to understand that she has to be three dimensional otherwise she's just a caricature. And why are you so hung up on someone 'fixing' someone ? No one can be 'fixed', people can only fix themselves. We're beyond that debate. But people who want to 'fix' themselves need a catalyst that they admire to make them see their mistakes so they can change and a support system is also necessary. If Anakin has one he could have returned from the dark side before going over the edge.

 

I got the feeling from the moment TLJ ended that they closed the book on any Rey and Kylo romance or Kylo redemption story. VIII covered those two story points already and that scene where Rey was closing the Falcon door symbolized the ending of those particular stories.

As far as this whole Skywalker Saga thing people keep on going on about. Rey will be continuing the legacy of Luke Skywalker so I don't see it as any big deal. In my opinion it is a good way to transition away from the Skywalker saga.

 

Please don't go there. Nobody forced those people to spend every waking moment of their lives during those two years figuring out how Rey was going to be Luke's kid.

 

Why do they need to "transition" away from it? Why not just make non Skywalker movies? It's not that hard set it n a different time have new characters. If that's what the audience wants then they'll respond to it. Otherwise trying to "wean" the audience from the Skywalkers just sounds like a case of "We know what's best for the audience more than they do".

 

Well for starters say they do an episode X that takes place a hundred years after Ep. IX. If they hadn't transitioned away from the Skywalker saga everyone would be asking where are the Skywalkers? If they properly transition away from the Skywalkers people will know why they aren't in an Ep. X.

 

They need to end the Skywalker saga now. Even this one is just a rehash of the OT. It's becoming tiring....time to end it and start fresh with a clean slate. The galaxy feels so small in the ST. Old Republic era stories would be nice.

 

Do you think, at this point, it will be easy to start with a clean slate? Do you think that someone can just waltz in at this point and create a whole new saga with brand new characters and Disney will just be willing to take that risk? Have you seen how "well" original stories do these days? And DON'T use Rogue One as an example as it was riding on the coattails of TFA whose mania is long gone at this point.

 

Yes I do. Give them a story that is interesting within the Star Wars universe and people will line up for it. Solo just never had that story 'hook'. And @jedijax favor to ask. Will you please keep all the drama you have been creating contained within the Solo area? I specifically moved over to the IX area to get away from all that mess you guys are cooking up now over there.

 

Why not? A lot of people want Old Republic. The OT trio is gone now...this is the perfect time to end the Skywalker saga. Another Skywalker chosen kid with Empire vs Rebels in the background would be boring.

 

I would foresee a potential Ep. X doing a significant time jump so they could do just that. And I wouldn't at all be surprised if the Game of Thrones guys movies are Old Republic stuff.

 

Well, some important elements of TLJ are overt. Some are not, and there’s certainly more that I rarely see discussed for the fandom to unpack.

If by “Reylo” you mean the Rey/Kylo relationship/connection/dynamic, I agree. If you mean “romance,” then no.

 

I don’t see any evidence that any continuation of the Skywalker Saga would necessarily be an “Empire vs Rebels” dynamic.

Although added material in the TLJ novelizations suggests that Rey is indeed a new “chosen one” (and that Luke, too, was a “chosen one”).

 

For E9, I'd like to see Kylo find a way to become really powerful. So powerful we see immediately that Rey will have a hard time beating him. This is one of the first plot points they need to set up to create tension in the story.

Then once we begin to fear for Rey's safety, she has to seek allies of some kind. Force Ghosts, hopefully, but maybe also a couple of Jedi apprentices.

 

So what is exactly is the point of a Rey Kylo force bond character relationship?

Romantic slant aside, is it for Rey to A- kick ass, take names and became the new face of the force users taking up the mantle from the Skywalker clan aka Kylo is dead, long live the new force users, because the Skywalker family went down in flames?

B- kick ass, take names, continue the force users and drop kick Kylo off a cliff into redemption, because the who "the gods help those who help themselves" and Kylo is a forever a wandering to make up for his crimes?

C- kick ass, take names, be the new face of the force users, take Finn or Poe as a husband and have a tense force relationship with the ghost of Kylo who would not stop whinning?!

D- none of the above besides the kick ass, take names, be the face of the new force users and who took down Kylo empire? Also still single but is very much loved?!

E- um, Reylo force babies. Horrified gay storm pilot Uncles with a dead Kylo father.

 

That question seems to be a large part of the basis of the argument that the relationship must be romantic.

Maybe it has something to do with the backstory, and what happened to Rey, and what happened to Ben. Maybe it has to do with the resolution of the Skywalker legacy, and what destroyed the balance Anakin brought, and how that can be prevented from happening again. Maybe it’s about family and that’s why the story is so powerful.

That sounds....rather extreme? I don’t think you actually see the possibilities as so black-and-white.

No, I think redemption will involve Rey. I think Rey is the epicenter of what tore the family apart. Kylo doesn’t primarily need compassion or belonging from Rey - he rejected both in favor of power. He needs something else else, and that somethin else is the key to his redemption.

I’m noticing a pattern here - “If you don’t think Rey and Kylo will have a romance, you must think they’ll hate each other forever and think Sw is all ‘pew pew lasers.’” Which is, again, really simplistic, black-and-white thinking. And utterly contrary to the fundamentals of the franchise. And just wrong.

Kylo has now “grown beyond” Vader, whose arc (as has been pointed outcby many) he’s been paralleling and mirroring. Rey has now “grown beyond” Luke, who - as far fewer have acknowledged - she’s been paralleling and mirroring.

No one *knows* how this will end, but what we’ve seen thus far strongly indicate that the episodic movies are called “the Skywalker Family Saga” (and a “generational” saga) for a reason.

Romantic relationships are an important part of Star Wars. But the concept of “family” - both the family you choose and the family you’re stuck with and must reconcile with - is pre-eminant. As GL has said, it’s a family soap opera, one about inter- and intra-generational conflicts.

 

How will Rey be “ continuing the legacy of Luke Skywalker”? Rey learned NOTHING from Luke . He wasn’t her Jedi master or her mentor or her guardian. He didn’t train her. They built no relationship whatsoever. They treated each other abysmally, and they knew each other for at most, a couple of days. Luke did NOT “pass the torch” to her as I think most of us were expecting. Instead, rey apparently gained her Jedi skills and knowledge by downloading them from Kylo, which I think is one of the lamest and dumbest ways I have ever heard of to pass on Jedi teaching, that I have ever heard of. It’s very unsatisfying too.

 

She will read the books that Luke touched.

 

Ahhh yes. I had expected a lot of conflict, although I had expected more positive moments.

I mean, Rey had just a few days to get out all her pent-up rebellious teenage parental resentment. I expect the reunion in 9 to be a marked contrast.

It was kinda like that old "they fight so dang much they must really love each other" trope. There's a reason why, despite all that conflict, etc etc, Rey was the first person to sense Luke's death. Before Leia, Luke's twin. Kylo wasn't shown to have sensed it at all.

Had there not been some pre-existing underlying connection, the Luke/Rey relationship wouldn't have been portrayed as so dang bad in TLJ.

(If only Rey had gone to the cave at high tide...!)

ETA:

What did Luke really care about?

There's a close-up of Luke's hand on the books. It's his robot hand.

There are two close-ups of Luke's hand on Rey's hand, during lesson 1. It's his human hand.

RJ has this Thing for hand close-ups. Probably means something.