ST Kylo Ren's Future/Fate. Death/Redemption/Other?

Alive. He makes the turn to the light by doing the right thing at the end of Ep 9. And he goes into exile on Ahch-To or Tatooine.

And then the next trilogy, we find him years later, and we get the fallout. Can he be forgiven? Can he forgive himself?

 

No. For the simple reason that he murdered his father. And he didn't really do it in a fog of Dark Side like Anakin and the younglings or anger like Anakin and the Sand People. It was more snide and contemptuous. Deliberate.

Kylo dies. And the Skywalker line is extinguished in a whimper. All our heroes dead.

 

To each their own but keeping Kylo alive and redeemed would be uncharted territory for the films which could be interesting.

Just for the record when I say I'd like to see Kylo redeemed I don't mean that I think Kylo should get a happily ever after life where he's treated by society as one of the good guys and all of his evil deeds are forgiven.

 

I chose “Other” simply because I like him as a villain and we don’t have enough villains in this vein (but I wouldn’t mind redemption and feel like there hints for this route). It could make for a more dynamic ending then simply happy ever after (for the time being). That is one of the reasons I love ROTS. The bad guys win but there is an element of hope. This could be the poetic reverse: the good guys win but there is an ominous cloud in the sky.

 

Kylo needs to become the COMPLETE JEDI - fully embracing the light and the dark. I think his offer for Rey to join him is along those lines. Not wanting to corrupt her, but to open her eyes to the full Force.

 

Kylo’s way has been to dominate and murder and destroy. That’s...not something the narrative is presenting as a great thing for Rey to learn to do.

 

I think Kylo should end in prison, and then, if they do episode X/XI/XII, he should have some redemtion/penance arc and be one of the protagonists (as an anti-hero). It's something that has not been done in Star Wars, and i think it would be an interesting dynamic to have one of the main characters being on the side of the good guys while being hated and not trusted by them.
As a bonus, ghost Anakin could be his "mentor" trying to redeem his own soul through his grandson

 

Death would just be ROTJ repeating, but since he's already saved Rey and shown compassion, it would feel less fulfilling to me. If he had been ruthless for both movies with no sign of change until IX, then maybe a death like Vader's would work, but he's younger than Anakin and already cracking under his mask.

 

Not sure where I see him ending up, but would love to see him in IX looking more and more like Palpatine - face cracked, skin warped, delving deeper and deeper into the Dark Side, trusting no one but himself. Would love some interplay of him and Force Ghost Luke, especially Luke telling him what happened to his idol Vader.

 

Another idea (my first idea is to have Kylo Ren ending, not his days but this trilogy, in prison):
Let's say they kill Kylo Ren, the last Skywalker... let's say they move on from this family... but what if we learn that in some way, Skywalker is just a branch (the Shmi branch) of one big family that is "the children of the force"... What if every force sensitive is either a chosen one (born without father, like Anakin) or a more or less distant descendant of a chosen one (like Luke... or Yoda, Obi Wan, Rey, Qui Gon, the broom kid...) which would make the Star Wars saga still about one family, but not just about Shmi's family. I may be a little out of topic with this idea, but the thing is, even if Lucasfilm doesn't seem (for now) to be afraid of being a little "brutal" with the fans, i am not sure they would dare to end the Skywalker saga as a tragedy, unless (but it's just my guess) they reveal that Skywalker was just the tip of the iceberg, something that was a lot bigger from the start...
What do you think about it?

 

Like Anakin, right?

 

Not sure what you mean.

My point is that Rey’s and Kylo’s positions are not complimentary opposites to be harmonized. I think it’s clear that Kylo’s position is being presented as absolutely Wrong. (Yes, he wanted Rey to “let go” but he was demanding a full break. Luke “let go” in the end as well; the concept is not DS-aligned.)

 

I really don’t know how they could have Kylo redeemed and then just be allowed to go free in the galaxy, living his life as he sees fit. Is that fair to all of his countless victims, who have no life at all because of him? What kind of message does that send to kids? Someone can live a horrible life and cause untold death and destruction,, but that’s okay if they say they are sorry? Or if they are related to special people?

As far as I am concerned, if Kylo is redeemed, he needs to die or spend the rest of his life in a maximum security prison. So how his life could be interesting after that, I have NO clue. But justice needs to be served, and allowing Kylo to go free to travel the galaxy for ANY reason, is WAY too lenient. That’s not justice. That’s a slap on the wrist. Besides, how would anyone ever be able to trust him again? With his volatile personality, who knows what might set him off and send him over the edge into darkness again? I think it would be way too dangerous to let him go free.

 

Since the only people who know Kylo is Ben are a handful, they might pull the "Kylo is dead, this man Ben Solo killed him" type of thing in IX. Most of the galaxy has no idea what Kylo even looks like under the mask. He was not allowed to show his face or have his real name used. He broke that with Rey and Poe knows him probably because of Leia.

 

I don’t even care whether anyone in the galaxy knows it or not. We as fans know it. The entire audience knows it. So again? Is this a good message for kids? That you can commit mass murder on an enormous scale and get away with it? Be allowed to live your life any way that you want? Again: what about all those people he killed himself or ordered killed? Don’t they deserve justice whether most of the people in the galaxy know that he is Kylo or not? How can rey and leia and poe and Finn and anyone else trust his volatile personality even if they wanted to hide who he was so he could avoid paying for his crimes?

Frankly, it would just be completely wrong for Kylo to get to live a happy life when likely millions are dead because of him, including Luke and Han. He caused his whole family’s life’s work to be wiped out. He and his FO destroyed his mother’s new republic and the resistance, and he destroyed his uncle’s Jedi order. He doesn’t deserve a happily ever after when he was the cause of his parents and uncle not having one.

 

Many kids want him redeemed, so it's a matter of perspective at this point. All I'm saying is, they can easily pull it off unless Kylo addresses the whole galaxy and confesses and reveals who he truly is to everyone. This let's them decide his fate.

 

Wasn't Loki responsible for a number deaths in the Marvel movies and yet he became a kinda/sorta good guy and the kids are alright with it. Heck Loki's a fan favorite.

Darth Vader killed a TON of people including children and I see little kids wearing Darth Vader shirts all the time. Vader was a horrible person for most of his life and then he was redeemed when he did one good thing before he died. If Kylo lived he'd have all the time in the world to do more than one good thing. He could be more useful to the galaxy alive than dead if he was redeemed.

 

I said this in the other thread too. Kylo will probably become the Loki of SW.

 

Would/ should a school shooter be redeemed? I say , “No way!” And Kylo is responsible for a whole lot more deaths than just those of his fellow students. A whole village of men, women, and children were killed because of him , besides many others, including his own father.

What kids want Kylo redeemed? Certainly none in my circle of friends and relatives.

Kylo can be redeemed, but he needs to be punished for his crimes, and the only things that would be sufficient punishment to fit his crimes would be death or life in prison. There should be no happy ending for Kylo. I don’t care who wants that for him. That’s not justice. That would just be wrong and a terrible message.

 

Depends on how they go about it. Time will tell.

 

He turns back to the light at some point between episodes VIII & IX, but it isn't revealed until the end of IX. For most of the movie, the audience is lead to believe he is fighting with the FO. All along, he's actually weakening them from the inside. He likely realized that was his destiny at some point after TLJ. After destroying the FO, he sacrifices himself for the New Jedi Order.

 

@Ender_and_Bean I know you asked about this in different ways in the context of religious tradition, but since it is tied to redemption, I'm going to try putting it here.

The Star Wars saga has never been about highlighting punishment or retribution. It has always been about embracing redemption and forgiveness. So I don't see the need or lust for making sure a redemptive Kylo Ren gets his just deserts.

so drawing from religious myth, let's look at the three parables from the bible pertaining to redemption (no, I am not promoting any specific religion, but the philosophy in these parables is quite interesting. For that matter, the Buddhist tradtion has a similar prodigal son story,) but also criticism for why the good guy (ie, Christ) would welcome the and interact with the unfavorable (the unclean, tax collectors, prostitutes, etc.)

The Prodigal Son, the TL;DR version with SW analogies interspersed into it...

It's a story about a bunch of brothers, one of which didn't want to wait for his inheritance. He was an entitled brat (sound familar?) and demanded it while his father was still alive. Demanding his inheritance while his father is alive is akin to wishing his father was dead.

He wanted his family's destiny and he wanted it now. So he took the money, blows through his inheritance and makes a ton of bad decisions. Finds himself destitute and working as swineherder (ie, he is now considered unclean from a religious standpoint as pigs are religiously unclean. He's hit rock bottom and is starving with nothing more than an empty belly and a ton of regret for past piss poor decisions. So what does he do? He goes home, but that sense of entitlement is gone. Rather, takes ownership of his past mistakes and transgressions and begs for shelter not as an entitled son looking to move back into his room and take over the house, but rather as hired help. He has cast aside his pride and plans on falling at his father's feet and begging:

But before he can even make it to the front door and beg for a lowly job, his father recognizes him and welcomes him home with open arms. he shelters him, clothes him and throws a feast to welcome him home.

So what about the older brother who has been the dutiful son, still working hard, who has had his father's respect and love all these years and has yet to see him a penny of his inheritance?? Yeah, he's not too thrilled about this. To me, he is very much like the viewers that can't understand why the brother (ie, Kylo) should ever be welcomed home. He has good reason to be angry and question his father's actions. The brother sees things in black and white--his brother screwed up, let him reap what he sows. that would be proper justice for his transgressions. Kick him to curb. Why should his brother get the feast and celebration while he was the faithful and dutiful son. There is no need to forgive or love someone who turned his back on his own family.

Why should he be welcomed home? The brother raises some very good questions.

But this parable isn't a lesson that teaches that if you repent, you get to go home with open arms no questions asked.

The parable of the Prodigal son is directed at the joy that can be found when someone is lost and metaphorically dead (Your son is gone. He was weak and foolish like his father, so I destroyed him) and realizing that the are no longer either. It is very much about the power of offering that forgiveness that comes with a redemptive journey.

As the father states in the parable, "But it was appropriate to celebrate and be glad, for this, your brother, was dead, and is alive again. He was lost, and is found."

But the father of this story does not demand restitution for what his son has squandered. He is thankful that the son is contrite and has returned.

So here you have two schools of thought:

The brother who thinks, despite how remorseful his brother is, thinks his returned brother should be subject to the law of natural consequences.

But then there is the father who over the moon that his contrite son finally made the right choice and came home.

Yes, there are some in your "circle of friends and relatives" that don't want to see Kylo Ren redeemed and welcomed. But there are some who do.

And this parable truly does illustrate that there are those who welcome such a redemptive journey. As I mentioned above, there is a similar story in the Buddhist tradition. this has been a subgenre of english morality plays. The theme of the prodigal son has turned up in song and literature time and time again. And there has been ballet and orchestral works devoted to it.

So I certainly wouldn't say people don't want the seemingly undeserving to atone and move toward redemption. Rather it's a theme that has been embraced in a multitude of genre, not just Star Wars.

But for me, this is the crux of the Skywalker saga: that you can return home after a lifetime of mistakes and awful choices if you only take the first step on your own. The idea of always having a home and not being rejected is something humanity craves. We don't want that sense of isolation. We crave forgiveness. And this is why I love the open hand of Star Wars as opposed to the clenched fist we often get from hardened hearts of society.

 

@Birkendoc , would you feel the same way about Palpatine or Snoke? Would you want not just redemption for them, but for them to get happily ever afters in which they were free to live their lives in any way they chose while their countless victims never had a chance to live at all? I just don’t see where there is any thought about the victims in all of this. I have nothing against redemption, but that doesn’t mean villains should get off Scott free after they decide that they have been wrong. There should still be punishment for crimes committed.
And Kylo committed a LOT of crimes.

I really believe that had Anakin/ Vader survived, that he would have been tried for his crimes; found guilty; and punished. As it was, he was punished for his evil. He lost his life. I don’t know why things should/ would be any different for Kylo. The fact that he comes from a famous family should have no bearing.

I am a catholic, and and in my Faith we do believe that there is nothing that one can do that can’t be forgiven if one is truly sorry. However, that doesn’t mean that there are no consequences. One still needs to make restitution; one still is subject to the laws of the land; one still must make up for one’s transgressions, and that usually means prison sentences.

I still maintain that it would be sending a very bad message to young people to allow Kylo to get a happy life of freedom and no consequences for being responsible for so much death and destruction. It would be totally unfair, in my opinion.

 

Not all “mistakes” are created equal.