CT In ROTJ ending how comes Leia couldn't see Anakin, Yoda & Obi-Wan force ghosts?

Just going by the movie, how do we know she didn’t see them? All we can say is that she wasn’t shown reacting to seeing them.

 

Ive wonder sometimes if she could see them and just was more interested in bringing Luke back to the land of the living.

 

The same way that we know that Luke couldn't see Obi-wan until he does. Watch Yoda and Luke in Yoda's hovel. Luke is looking in one direction, while Yoda is in another. The Jedi Master can see what the Padawan cannot. Leia has not been taught to commune with the dead and has no training. Later on is a whole different matter.

 

So you believe Luke couldn’t see ghost Ben on Hoth? He hadn’t been trained to commune with ghosts any more than Leia had in RotJ.

 

They're dead Jedi. They can only be seen by those they want to be seen by.

 

Can you see any in the room with you right now?

 

Haha, that I cannot.

To me, this just seems to be the conclusion which makes the most sense given

a.) Luke can't see Obi-Wan in Yoda's hut but Yoda can
b.) Luke can see Obi-Wan on Hoth, prior to this event
c.) Nobody else sees the ghosts on Endor

 

The situation of Yoda's hut seems to be a question of lack of space, not of one's ability to see Obi-Wan.

 

He can barely see Yoda on Hoth. He sees him more clearly when he appears to Luke before he leaves for Bespin. Obi-wan and the other Force ghosts don't speak to Leia, which is why she cannot hear them. Luke has had some training that allowed him to hear Obi-wan. Remember, Yoda could barely hear Qui-gon at first and then he could later on.

Luke cannot stand up fully. That's different from turning his head in the right direction. Not to mention that the script flat out states that Luke isn't sure if he is seeing Obi-wan or not on Hoth, but can when Luke is packing to leave.

 

Obi-Wan did appear on Hoth, so wether Luke was sure or not, he did see him (faintly). And hearing an ethereal voice doesn't require one to turn to a specific direction. It seems pretty obvious that Obi-Wan isn't seen in that scene because they were inside the hut. In any case, Obi-Wan does appear fully when he's leaving. By that point, Luke had undergone some training and developed his connection to the Force too.

 

Obi-Wan was clearly above the roof but didn't want to be rude and pass through Luke or Yoda!

 

He was also on the wing of Luke's X-Wing during the trench run. I can always see him when I watch the movie. I don't know why Luke or nobody else watching can. He is right there on the wing.

 

What with Obi-Wan appearing to Luke on Hoth at that moment? Does Luke need to be in that desperate physical state to perceive him? Or is he helping Han find Luke somehow?

Yoda and Obi-Wan are serious tricksters. I don't remember if it was the novelization, but I recall reading that Yoda intentionally caused Luke to crash his X-Wing on dagobah.

 

This is not pertinent to the discussion. When I was little, I recall that, when Obi-Wan said, "You cannot escape your destiny," to Luke earlier in the film, I would very unceremoniously say, "Da da da," in my head to accompany that statement.

 

Bcs on Hoth ghost Ben was quite a distance away, & the light was poor, & there was a blizzard.

They don't speak to Luke either. You're just making up rules now.

 

I always assumed Luke being in a near-death state is what allowed him to perceive Ben's ghost so clearly for the first time. TCW also has Yoda place himself into a sensory deprivation chamber while slowing his heartbeat in an attempt to re-establish a connection with Qui-Gon's ghost.

I also always thought that Han's appearance on the horizon right as Ben's ghost fades was more than coincidence.

 

I agree. Seeing dead relatives or loved ones or a guardian angel, is one of the experiences that people who have been very close to death sometimes later claim to have had during that time. Maybe Luke didn't even need to be strong in the force or trained at all to see Obi Wan at that time?

I think Obi Wan obviously knew Han was coming from that direction and that Luke would be safe. It would make sense to appear to Luke in that direction so that he would see Han as he arrived.

 

The odds of finding Luke in that wasteland are 3,721 to 1. Han must have been guided in some way

 

No, it just means that Luke's not fully trained. The more he trains and develops a connection to the Force, the stronger his connection becomes and the more he can see things clearly. As noted, he was near death and he could almost see him. But then he cannot on Dagobah until he appears. And yes, looking in the opposite direction is key, because when he sees the Force ghosts, he is clearly looking right them. But when he is looking in a different direction from Yoda, even within the same moment, he cannot see him. Only hear him.

No, I did not. Luke can see and hear them, whenever they choose to commune with him. An untrained Jedi can only hear until they've trained enough to see them. Since Leia has no training yet, and the Jedi ghosts do not speak to her and she does not acknowledge seeing them, ergo, she is unaware of what Luke is doing when he is looking away.

youtube.com/watch?v=YDqgJye7hyc

@2:41, Leia comes up to Luke and does not turn in the direction that he is looking. She only looks at Luke. He is the only one who sees and acknowledges them. Lucas was consistent with what he was establishing in each film. The scripts back this up.

 

A conversation between ghosts, on Endor:

Obi-Wan- "Anakin! How is Luke supposed to recognize you now?"

Yoda- "Yes, yes... Be old, you must! to Obi Wan, you listen."

Anakin- "I'm immortal now, master. I'm not gonna spend eternity looking like you two."

Yoda- "....look youthful, we can?"

 

On The Clone Wars, Yoda is visited by Qui-Gon Jinn but only as a voice in visions. None of the other Jedi can sense this, except Anakin who only sort of hears or senses Qui-Gon, like something misheard in the wind. At one point Yoda is put into a bacta tank to induce a deeper meditative state. Yoda does reach Qui-Gon, who tells him this is not the right way. Other powerful Jedi are standing outside the tank, but none of them sense Qui-Gon.

Long story short, the Force Spirts may be able to select who they appear too.

 

Qui-gon cannot appear because his training was incomplete, as he pointed out to Yoda and Lucas himself has said.

YODA: "Show yourself, can you?"

QUI-GON: "I cannot. My training was incomplete."


YODA: "Failed to stop the Sith Lord, I have. Still much to learn, there is..."

QUI-GON: "Patience. You will have time. I did not."


"We never see the ghost of Qui-Gon; he's not that accomplished. He's able to retain his personality, but he's not able to become a corporeal ghost."

--George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS, Page 40.

Anakin and Obi-wan only saw Qui-gon on Mortis due to the strong nexus of Force energy, but the former isn't entirely sure of what he saw, but he thinks it was him. The latter believes it to be part of an illusion of Mortis until Yoda confirms that it was real. As to the rest, as Qui-gon stated, this was a gift that only a few Jedi can have and Yoda's path was clear that this needed to happen. Hence, he cannot make contact with Mace or Ki-Adi.

 

Wasn't the entire escapade on Mortis a vision? Like it all happened in their minds?

 

No, Mortis happened. They just believe that it might have been all in their heads, after it was all over. Because Mortis exists on a place of existence different from what the three of them know, the rules of time and space flowed differently on Mortis than in the Republic.

 

I don't mean that they just imagined it, but that Mortis isn't a physical place one can simply fly a starship to. The three Jedi never physically went there. They were essentially in the Q Continuum