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Author	Topic: Should Darth Maul have died?
EECHUUTA Registered: Mar '07	Date Posted: 4/8 10:59am Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	LadySythe posted: Listen, you do not. Understand you do not. Ignorant, you are. Maul didn't have to die. Honestly people. Like I said before, he could have survived and vanished into the ether like Aurra Sing did during the Clone Wars and the time of the Empire. He could have healed, bidded his time, watched and waited. It is completely possible and probable. Then with Maul out of the way lurking in the shadows like he's good at, the way is still open for AOTC, ROTS and the OT... Heck, Maul's species could be long lived or he went into stasis and came back any time after the fall of the Empire till a thousand years from BBY. shakes head and sighs Some people don't have to die for a story to continue. I agree. We had all that promotion of him, the commercials, the T-shirts, the life size- statues, etc., and he was essentially at times THE symbol of The Phantom Menace, and we get just about a minute or two of him throughout the entire movie?! And then he dies a cheap death? He could have been the major villian of the prequals, killing Jedi left and right, and even getting turned into a cyborg if they wanted a Grevious type character. He could be the Sith the Jedi are so focused on, and yet still keep the attention away from the Master.
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Darth_Davi Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 4/8 12:32pm Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	That is just the problem though...they HAD to focus on Darth Maul, because the "notso" secret of who the real villain is wasn't revealed yet. Maul is NOT the "Phantom Menace". Palpatine is. But, if the promotion of the movie focused on Palpatine, it ruins the meaning of the title, as he wouldn't really be a phantom menace anymore, he would be the blatantly obvious menace. Darth Maul is just the distraction, not the real villain. I would dispute Maul being the focus of the promotion of the movie as well...he was one element of it, to be sure...but there were an awful lot of posters devoted to Anakin, with his shadow being Vader, to Padme, and mostly to Pods. They even made multiple Pod Racer games for various platforms. You can't claim that Maul was essentially it for advertising. Maul certainly could NOT have been the major villain of the PT. That role is Palpatine's, and ONLY Palpatine's. Darth Maul, Count Dooku and General Grievous were just the faces of the opposition to the Jedi, not the source of it. Palpatine is the true villain of the story, nobody else even comes close. He could have had an expanded role, but Lucas could have just as easily written TPM differently, with NO Darth Maul, and instead show us the defection of Count Dooku away from the Jedi Order. The only reason Darth Maul exists is because George Lucas wrote the script to include him. He didn't have to. Darth Maul's existence is not necessary to get us into the events that make up the OT. Darth Maul was a choice made by Lucas, not a necessity. Palpatine, Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Padme are crucial to get us from Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader, and also to get us from Anakin to Luke Skywalker. in order to get to the OT, we NEED the Emperor, Anakin and Luke's Jedi Masters, and the mother of the twins. We do not necessarily need Darth Maul or Count Dooku, we don't really need Ric Olie, Jango and Boba Fett, Panaka, Captain Typho, General Grievous, or Jar Jar Binks, nor do we even need Mace Windu, Qui-Gon Jinn or the droids for that matter. The PT could have been written without them entirely, although I will grant that the droids do provide continuity, as a permanent tie-in between the two trilogies...point is, Darth Maul is not inherently a crucial character, as some of the others are. As such, he is entirely expendable once he accomplishes the goal Lucas set out for the character to do. Count Dooku is just as expendable, and he dies just like Maul does...immediately after accomplishing their purpose. Maul's purpose was to eliminate Qui-Gon and then die, Dooku's purpose was to die at the hands of Anakin, to corrupt him towards the Dark Side. Both were nothing but tools to be wielded and then discarded, both at the hands of Palpatine, and of the plot. -----signature----- What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide! It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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sith_rising Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 4/8 4:05pm Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	I'd say that Anakin got most of the promotional face-time for TPM, but he wasn't really in it that much. It was mostly Padme and Qui-Gon, followed by Obi-Wan, Anakin, Maul, Shmi, Watto and everyone else. But Lucas did need someone like Maul to sort of "kickstart" the new trilogy. Fans were ready for some serious lightsaber action and a fresh villain. We had old men, fallen Jedi, Vader and Sidious in the OT. Maul was a nice start for the PT, followed by Jango, Grievous and Vader, while Sidious constantly acted as the central villain. -----signature----- "My mentor taught me everything about the Force, even the nature of the Dark Side"
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LadySythe Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 4/8 5:36pm Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	Nah, just being sarcastic...that and people are continuously going OT... Call it a bit of frustration. Some people are so closed minded against all possibilities and believe what they think is the all important truth and nothing else matters. I feel it, I sense it here. I also sense a lot of tension and underlying hostility. I am highly sensitive to emotion... shakes head It is sad. -----signature----- You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you're all the same. http://www.myspace.com/teloxi
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LadySythe Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 4/8 10:19pm Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	Drat... I didn't know there was another page to this thread... My above post was directed at the mod strilo... -----signature----- You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you're all the same. http://www.myspace.com/teloxi
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Emperor_Time Registered: Aug '07	Date Posted: 4/9 1:25am Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	sith_rising posted: I'd say that Anakin got most of the promotional face-time for TPM, but he wasn't really in it that much. It was mostly Padme and Qui-Gon, followed by Obi-Wan, Anakin, Maul, Shmi, Watto and everyone else. But Lucas did need someone like Maul to sort of "kickstart" the new trilogy. Fans were ready for some serious lightsaber action and a fresh villain. We had old men, fallen Jedi, Vader and Sidious in the OT. Maul was a nice start for the PT, followed by Jango, Grievous and Vader, while Sidious constantly acted as the central villain. I agree with that. -----signature----- Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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Rossa83 Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 4/9 3:01pm Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	Darth_Davi posted: Count Dooku is just as expendable, and he dies just like Maul does...immediately after accomplishing their purpose[...]Dooku's purpose was to die at the hands of Anakin, to corrupt him towards the Dark Side. I just loved that one. Dooku dies after accomplishing his purpose - and he dies after being killed by Anakin - how could he not die after being killed by Anakin? Other than that I agree wholeheartedly with you! There are a few central characters in the PT, otherwise everyone is expendable. Maul was cool enough, but don't for a second believe that Lucas intended for him to take Vader's or Palpatine's thunder - which he never did.
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mrarnold40 Registered: Apr '08	Date Posted: 4/9 4:09pm Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	darth maul needed to die, and he needed to die by obi wan, but not like that, and not in the first movie. he couldve died later on after obi wan was strong enough to take on a sith lord. and it couldve been one of those epic fights that we were all looking for. him defeating the man that killed his master -----signature----- STAR WARS GALAXIES- server BRIA- guilds OB, LSYN- characters JAAMAL,JEEMEL,JEMAL,JAZMIN,JEMEL
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Darth_Davi Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 4/9 9:26pm Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died? - Date Edited: 4/9 9:32pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Darth_Davi
	Rossa83, I suspect you know what I mean, and are just being nitpicky... But, okay...I should have worded it SLIGHTLY differently. Dooku's purpose wasn't to get killed by Anakin. His purpose was to get Anakin to turn to the Dark side and be killed. You could argue that he has already served his purpose when Anakin makes the decision to behead him, or as Anakin starts the motion of beheading him rather than when his head actually comes off his shoulders. As soon as Anakin decides to kill him, he has fallen, so Dooku's purpose in the story has been accomplished. Thus, he dies immediately after serving his purpose, as the lightsabers cut his head off. Maul died minutes after completing his, Dooku died a split second after completion of his purpose in the story. Make sense now? LOL -----signature----- What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide! It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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iluvdarthvader Registered: Apr '08	Date Posted: 4/10 7:17am Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	so r u saying that darth maul was trying to turm Obi Wan and Qui-gon to the dark side as well??? -----signature----- omg! i luv darth vader!!!!!!!!!! <3
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iluvdarthvader Registered: Apr '08	Date Posted: 4/10 7:18am Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	*turn not turm!! lol! -----signature----- omg! i luv darth vader!!!!!!!!!! <3
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Darth_Davi Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 4/10 8:10am Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	Not at all. George Lucas decided when he was writing the script for TPM, that he was going to start out with Obi-Wan Kenobi still having a Jedi Master of his own, Qui-Gon Jinn. However, he knew that at some point soon, he would have to kill off Qui-Gon, in order to get to the point where Kenobi takes on Anakin as his own Padawan, to match it up with the OT. Qui-Gon was written as a temporary character. Lucas knew as soon as he created the character, that he was going to have to kill him off, in order to lead to the Obi-Wan training Anakin stuff. So, he needed a way to accomplish that killing off. Enter Darth Maul. Since by the time we get to the OT, the only two Sith Lords are Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader, Lucas also knew that any Sith Lords introduced besides the Emperor, (Maul and Tyranus) also must die before Vader can accept his role, to remain consistent with the Rule of Two that he wrote into TPM. So, they both became tools for the plot. Lucas decided to kill off Qui-Gon Jinn using Darth Maul, but then he had to kill off Darth Maul. Having Kenobi do it makes sense, it strengthens Kenobi's character, his sense of confidence that he would need to transition from Padawan learner to Jedi Knight, teacher of Anakin. Kenobi would have to grow up a little in the movie. Watching his Master die, and then slay his killer accomplishes that. So, what we have is a Jedi Master who has to die, and a Sith Lord that kills him, who then has to die as well. Darth Maul existed to look cool, to sell some toys, be the face of the bad guys until the Vader character was older, and Palpatine is revealed as the true villain, and to get rid of Qui-Gon, and then be gotten rid of. George Lucas is thinking to himself as he writes the script, okay, I have this wise mentor for Obi-Wan, much like Ben was for Luke in ANH, but I know he can't survive. I have to come up with a way to get rid of him at some point, because Obi-Wan has to take the training of Anakin upon himself, and become his Master...what can I do...Oh, I know, I can give Senator Palpatine, who I am calling Darth Sidious as his Sith name, an apprentice. I can have the apprentice be the visible enemy for the Jedi, then I can have him kill Qui-Gon, so Obi-Wan has to train Anakin...But, then I gotta get rid of the apprentice too....I got it, If this Sith Lord kills Obi-Wan's mentor, he should then be killed by Obi-Wan, to show that Obi-Wan is ready to become a Jedi Knight...its like a coming of age thing for Obi-Wan... I am not talking about Darth Maul's in universe existence, I am talking about his existence as a character in a fictional story, who has a role intentionally designed by the author of the story, to accomplish something the author wishes to occur within the story. For Maul, his purpose was to kill off Qui-Gon, and then die, so he isn't a loose end, plotwise. For Darth Tyranus, it was to get Anakin to the point where he taps the Dark side. This is necessary, because we know Anakin becomes Darth Vader, so Lucas had to show us how he got there. In universe, Dooku was just trying to convert him. Palpatine lied to Dooku, he led him to believe that his own life wouldn't need to be put out to turn Anakin. In universe, while Palpatine was fully planning on replacing Dooku with Anakin, Dooku himself was thinking he could avoid being replaced as the Sith apprentice, and that Anakin would be an additional apprentice. He thought Palpatine was going to break the Rule of Two, and make it the Rule of Three. Out of universe, Dooku was the catalyst to Anakin's Dark side turn, and then be killed off so Anakin could take his place, as Darth Vader. Dooku's death in the beginning of ROTS is the signal to the audience that Anakin Skywalker is going to become Darth Vader, and soon. Dooku's death points to the fulfillment of his purpose. The PT, up until the point Anakin actually becomes Darth Vader, is filled with smaller scenes, to show that Anakin is slipping. His anger as a boy, his slaughtering of the Sand People, his directly violating the Jedi rule on marriage, etc. The tracks to his Sith turn begin being laid down in TPM, and culminate in ROTS. Dooku's death at Anakin's hands show the audience that Anakin is finally ready to become who he is destined to become. Their purposes fulfilled, BOTH Sith apprentices are killed off. Darth Maul should have died, because his reason for existing within the story was complete, based on Lucas' plans for him. Had Lucas intended Maul to be the face of the Clone Wars, as Dooku was, he wouldn't have killed him off. But, Lucas only had a specific set of things Darth Maul had to accomplish as a character, and once done, he killed him off. Just like he killed off Qui-Gon Jinn. Both Darth Maul and Qui-Gon Jinn exist as characters to prepare Obi-Wan Kenobi for taking on Anakin Skywalker as a Padawan. Their deaths accomplish this. -----signature----- What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide! It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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iluvdarthvader Registered: Apr '08	Date Posted: 4/10 10:51am Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	ohh i get it!!!! thx!!! -----signature----- omg! i luv darth vader!!!!!!!!!! <3
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Rossa83 Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 4/10 3:36pm Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	Darth_Davi posted: Rossa83, I suspect you know what I mean, and are just being nitpicky... But, okay...I should have worded it SLIGHTLY differently. Dooku's purpose wasn't to get killed by Anakin. His purpose was to get Anakin to turn to the Dark side and be killed. You could argue that he has already served his purpose when Anakin makes the decision to behead him, or as Anakin starts the motion of beheading him rather than when his head actually comes off his shoulders. As soon as Anakin decides to kill him, he has fallen, so Dooku's purpose in the story has been accomplished. Thus, he dies immediately after serving his purpose, as the lightsabers cut his head off. Maul died minutes after completing his, Dooku died a split second after completion of his purpose in the story. Make sense now? LOL Makes perfect sense I'm just awfully nitpicky As I said above, I agree completely with what you said! Everyone serves their purpose: for Dooku and Maul that purpose ended in a very necessary death. It is no different than Mace. Had it not been for the OT, he might very well have survived, but he had to die - contributing to Mace's death was Anakin's final step in embracing the dark-side. Everything that happened happened for a reason...
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deadlyfries Registered: Feb '08	Date Posted: 4/10 8:40pm Subject: RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
	That idea is completely ludicrous, back to the subject. -----signature----- The skull will follow you everywhere
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