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Topic:
Should Darth Maul have died?
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Darth_Davi
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
4/19 9:54am
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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didn't he take off the head of a former Jedi Master, and Sith Lord? And instead of limbs, didn't Maul end up having his entire body chopped off? And, didn't Maul lose to a Padawan? Sitara, you seriously have to consider your arguments better.
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What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon?
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide!
It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
4/19 10:50am
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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Remember, you don't actually have to whine to be labeled whiny! 
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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ShaneP
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
4/19 10:34pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
- Date Edited:
4/19 10:35pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
ShaneP
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Darth Davi
if he is just going to lose to three people, instead of just one?
1 = Dooku
2 = Anakin
He would beat Obi-Wan in TPM. That would be how he survives after all.
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Sitara
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
4/20 6:04am
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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Darth_Davi posted:
didn't he take off the head of a former Jedi Master, and Sith Lord? And instead of limbs, didn't Maul end up having his entire body chopped off? And, didn't Maul lose to a Padawan? Sitara, you seriously have to consider your arguments better.
Dooku was ordered NOT to kill Anakin. So he was at a disadvantage right there. plus, Obi-Wan was helping, making it a 2-1 in anakin's favor. Recall that force choke on obi-wan; had obi-wan not been there dooku would have choked anakinn = end of fight!
Second, anakin hit mace windu while windu was busy and not expecting the blow. Anakin backstabbed windu (he only ever manages to hit someone by betrayaing them/striking from behind, or so it seems)
Third, anakin lost to obi-wan rather wasily. He got all his freaking limbs chopped off! 
Lastly, anakin lost to luke, who was the equivalent of a youngling in terms of jedi training!
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
4/20 7:06am
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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True. Maul could have thwarted that attack from Luke while eating a sandwich.
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"My mentor taught me everything about the Force, even the nature of the Dark Side"
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EmeraldBlade
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/20 10:54am
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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Sitara posted:
Darth_Davi posted:
didn't he take off the head of a former Jedi Master, and Sith Lord? And instead of limbs, didn't Maul end up having his entire body chopped off? And, didn't Maul lose to a Padawan? Sitara, you seriously have to consider your arguments better.
Dooku was ordered NOT to kill Anakin. So he was at a disadvantage right there. plus, Obi-Wan was helping, making it a 2-1 in anakin's favor. Recall that force choke on obi-wan; had obi-wan not been there dooku would have choked anakinn = end of fight!
Second, anakin hit mace windu while windu was busy and not expecting the blow. Anakin backstabbed windu (he only ever manages to hit someone by betrayaing them/striking from behind, or so it seems)
Third, anakin lost to obi-wan rather wasily. He got all his freaking limbs chopped off!
Lastly, anakin lost to luke, who was the equivalent of a youngling in terms of jedi training!
I have to agree.
The Dooku fight was Anakin's best win but if it is permissible to ever use excuses for losing a fight (e.g. Vader was not trying, Kenobi got lucky etc) this is the best place to use one.
And of course, Vader does look horrid in the OT.
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Formerly the poster known as AnakinSucks
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LordVader66
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
4/20 7:24pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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Sitara posted:
Dooku was ordered NOT to kill Anakin. So he was at a disadvantage right there. plus, Obi-Wan was helping, making it a 2-1 in anakin's favor. Recall that force choke on obi-wan; had obi-wan not been there dooku would have choked anakinn = end of fight!
Whoa, your an idealogue!
You've done so major twisting to propagate your anti Vader POV. Dismissing the fact that there is NOTHING in RotS to suggest Dooku was ordered not to kill Anakin, your second point about Obiwan "helping" doesn't make any sense. Anakin defeated Dooku alone. Plus, Dooku could have Force choked Anakin at any point, Force choke is blockable. Otherwise, everyone would be doing it to each other.
Sitara posted:
Third, anakin lost to obi-wan rather wasily. He got all his freaking limbs chopped off!
Anakin lost to Obiwan rather easily? Did we watch the same duel? It was the longest in the saga, lots of back and forth.
Sitara posted:
Lastly, anakin lost to luke, who was the equivalent of a youngling in terms of jedi training
Why do think Luke was at the youngling level? He was a Jedi Knight in RotJ.
It light of all of this. Here are some facts
Darth Maul was a tool. Maul means tool. That's what his character was, a simple tool.
Darth Maul had a weak connection to the Force, he couldn't figure out what Obiwan was thinking. Vader was cut up but survived, but he was so strong, Maul, chopped in half, died and was never heard from again. Maul was nothing special, a below average Sith Lord.
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Peace in the Middle East
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
4/21 9:57am
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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Dismissing the fact that there is NOTHING in RotS to suggest Dooku was ordered not to kill Anakin
"His death was a necessary loss. Soon I will have a new apprentice... one far younger and more powerful."
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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Lord_Volz
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
4/21 11:10am
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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I think he should have died. We had to have at least one major villain die since the Emperor was going to stick around and I think Dooku ended up being a more interesting villain.
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"To Know What One Ought To Do Is Not Enough" - Prince Rhombur Vernius
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Juggernaut86
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/21 11:39am
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
Dismissing the fact that there is NOTHING in RotS to suggest Dooku was ordered not to kill Anakin
"His death was a necessary loss. Soon I will have a new apprentice... one far younger and more powerful."
That doesnt mean anything
Sidious couldve sent Dooku on mission to kill Anakin knowing that Anakin would win
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LordVader66
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
4/21 7:37pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
- Date Edited:
4/21 7:39pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
LordVader66
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^
Exactly. Fenn, you grossly misinterpreted that line.
Even if we do bring in EU, in Dark Lord, Sidious told Vader that Dooku would have been with him that day if he had beaten Anakin. Sidious wanted the strongest.
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atreyu2112
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/29 1:30pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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Here's my take:
Ep1 - Darth Maul should have lived! Too tremendous a villian to die that easily and would have made the continuity a little more acceptable. Add a scene where Sidious senses Maul was in trouble and had some Battle Droids sent on STAPS to retrieve him (forshadowing the same scene in Ep3). Also - a scene with Dooku (as JM Sifo Dias) on the Council. No dialog needed, just to see him there would have been enough to justify both the order to create a clone army & a much stronger impact when the Jedi learn of it in Ep2.
Ep2 - I would not have had Darth Maul on Geonosis. I would stick with Dooku being the "spear head" of the Seperatists being used by Sidious/Maul very much the same way Asajj was used in the CN CW Cartoon (as an "instrument to help bring forth the erradication of the Jedi"). Dooku would not have even seen the Jedi other than Obi-Wan when he was in captivity. Instead, he would have the muscle of a new droid built on Geonosis, General Grievous, sent to face the Jedi. With the arrival of the Clone army, Dooku splits with the Seperatists (and the Death Star plans), leaving GG to put up a great fight besting both Jedi before facing Yoda when he "runs and hides" (forshadowing his growing abilities as a Jedi killer in the CW, yet concreting the Windu statements in Ep3). This fight would have taken place in the Geonosian war room - a much more logical & intended target for the Republic than a far away hidden shuttle bay with a stupid chase to get there.
Followed up with GG & Dooku both meeting with Sidious & a cloaked Maul on Coruscant. All you can see of Maul are the horns in the hood and the very GG-like feet (as seen in Visionaries). Dooku to Maul - "We have succeeded, here are the plans you requested Lord Maul" and Maul to Sidious - "The war has begun my master". And, ofcourse, Sideous - "Yes, very good Lord Maul. All is proceeding exaclty as I have forseen". Resolve the Qui-Gon spirit voice thing Yoda previously heard (when Anakin's mother died) in the last scene in the Jedi Temple with Yoda explaining "Clouded this is. Qui-Gon's voice I heard. Transcend the Force he has. Communicate with him I must. But Fallen the shroud of the Dark Side has. Begun is the Clone War."
Ep3 - Have Ani & Obi arive on the Invisible Hand to witness the murder of Shaak Ti. They immediately chase GG to the bridge, have the original opening GG/Ani/Obi dialog but add a nod to Windu's Force crush putting a good scare in GG (from the CW cartoon), who then runs again by breaking the window (as seen in the movie) but with the chase truely ending in the observation tower with Palpatine. GG bests Obi by knocking him out (hitting him similar to the way he hit him Utapau) but not Anakin who's mechanical hand grabs & holds Grievous'... he cuts them off, has the 2 sabers prepared to be-head him, & GG uttering something about Maul and the end of the Jedi Order right before Anakin offs him.
Replace the GG/Obi Utapau fight with a final Maul/Obi fight. Right off the bat, you KNOW it's going to be BAD A$$. Have it more intense than their Ep1 duel (add a little hint of the coming Mustafar duel) and have Obi off Maul the way Maul killed Qui-Gon. Darth Vader finds Dooku on Mustafar protecting the head of the Seperatists. The 2 fight, Vader obivously wins and commences the elimination of the Seperatists.
Leave the rest and I think it would have been a hell of a lot better!!!
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
4/29 6:03pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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It works better with Maul dying in TPM. The story should center around Anakin, not the abundance of Sith Lords.
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"My mentor taught me everything about the Force, even the nature of the Dark Side"
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DRush76
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
4/29 9:16pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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I can understand why Lucas created Dooku. He wanted a more intelligent and politically minded Sith, a role that Maul doesn't really fit. However, Greivous on the other hand fills basically the identical role of Maul, ie Sidious' muscle.
I don't think so. Even Grievious seemed more of a military leader than Maul. Maul was great as a shadowy enforcer. But as a political/military leader like Dooku or even a military leader like Grievious . . . I just don't see it.
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
4/29 9:18pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
- Date Edited:
4/29 9:20pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
sith_rising
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You just described Darth Vader, who began as an enforcer and ended up commanding a navy and hanging out with admirals and governors. Just as Dooku went from Jedi to politician, Maul could do the same.
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