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Topic:
Should Darth Maul have died?
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EmeraldBlade
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
7/1 12:33am
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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Having read some EU material on Darth Maul, I was slightly disappointed.
He seems to treat Sidious in the same way another might treat a 'God', except he was more devoted than even the most terrible extremist.
He was capable and confident, but was more like a super Sith war droid, programmed by the Dark Lord.
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Formerly the poster known as AnakinSucks
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BigBoy29
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
7/1 3:00am
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
- Date Edited:
7/1 3:03am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
BigBoy29
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The "did Lord Maul out-popular Lord Vader?" question is always interesting and a good betting proposition.
To this day I say it is still is questionable --- but only in the "cool" or Halloween costume areas.
Guess what what one of my little neighbors was dressed in in Halloween 2007
EDIT: Like it or not, Maul has a legacy that supersedes Mr. Fett, but actually matches/surpasses Vader in certain areas. Damn good SW Villian --- probably the best.
-----signature-----
Lando: "She saved me at the Battle of Tannabe".
Han: "Hey remember, I won her fair and square."
Lando: "She was mine before she was yours, she was mine before she was yours ..."
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ShaneP
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
7/1 1:54pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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What I like about Maul is that he is, aside from Sidious, the purest sith we see. Not a fallen jedi turned to the darkside or anything.
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It was as if a million middle-aged virgins just farted with rage and were suddenly silenced.
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EECHUUTA
Registered:
Mar '07
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Date Posted:
7/1 2:08pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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BigBoy29 posted:
The "did Lord Maul out-popular Lord Vader?" question is always interesting and a good betting proposition.
To this day I say it is still is questionable --- but only in the "cool" or Halloween costume areas.
Guess what what one of my little neighbors was dressed in in Halloween 2007
I have a feeling it was probably Darth Vader 
BigBoy29 posted:
EDIT: Like it or not, Maul has a legacy that supersedes Mr. Fett, but actually matches/surpasses Vader in certain areas. Damn good SW Villian --- probably the best.
I can understand how Maul has a far more lasting legacy then Mr. Fett, but how does he match or surpass Vader? 
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
7/1 3:00pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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Obi-Chron posted:
Sx3 - good to see you back.  
Out of protest, I've not posted on TFN since your "Clone Wars Movie" thread was unceremoniously moved to the small screen board. Visited, yes. Posted, no!
So, now that the 'TRUE' Master of these boards is back . . . Edit: TRUE Master being Sx3
How can I be the Sith Massster when I haven't yet ripped your lightsaber from your rigor-mortis filled grip! Muah-ahahahahahahahah, cackle! 
Seriously Chron, you are too much! And no, you should never withhold your verve and wit from these boards on account of 'ol Sx3.
In all honesty... I'm not worth it, really.
***
I normally try to avoid quoting a poster ad-nauseum, but you brought up a few excellent points that beg me to respond in kind.
Obi-Chron posted:
- Maul's character easily could have spanned all three prequels.
- Kenobi could have been left trapped behind the force shield after Jinn is speared, allowing Maul to taunt the apprentice before exiting stage left.
Yes. This would have negated his Obsession with Ventress (a Sith wannabe no less) and provided Kenobi and the Jedi with something to do (instead of the apparent nothing) during the ten year hiatus between films. With no dead Sith, how much more intense would their search be for TWO of them? Think of the EU possibilities with Maul between TPM and AOTC... a wonderful opportunity to add depth to the story was missed.
Obi-Chron posted:
- Maul knew where the boy's mother was 'kept,' and he could have been the one to torture and ultimately murder Shmi via the Tusken Raiders, which Anakin would find out, giving him all the more reason for demanding his vengeance.
The resentment that would have festered in Anakin from knowing Kenobi failed to bring justice to Jinn's killer would have been more palpable than the teen angst Lucas put up on screen. Then; as Chron suggests, to have Maul pull the trigger on Shmi would make Anakin's anger with Kenobi's failure all the more believable... Kenobi clearly should have been shown to lack power despite his repeated survival against crazy odds. ( Or Anakin saving him a zillion times) See, if Anakin's Master was lacking... then it makes sense for him to look elsewhere for more power.
Obi-Chron posted:
- Maul could have been the one to later unhand Anakin on Geonosis, perhaps after playing a little nastiness with Padme and/or teasing Anakin about Shmi's death, further raising the boy wonder's blood pressure. Obi-Wan could have played the Yoda role, saving Anakin from Maul and us from the "spastic superball Yoda" scene. Yoda fighting in the arena with Windu, and later against Sidious, would have been more than enough 'wup-wup' for most die hard fans.
Oh, man... that would have been beyond brilliant. Maul swipes his arm and his pride and with Sidious killing Mace while Yoda barely escapes... how badass would Sidious seem then? Who could stop him if the Jedi's two greatest swordsmen got crunched together? That would make the Chosen One's (why did Lucas try to make Vader bigger than he already was?) fall seem even more tragic...
Obi-Chron posted:
- Maul could have also fought Anakin on the Invisible Hand, suffering pretty much the same fate as Dooku, but with much more pleasure from Anakin instead of wimpy guilt.
The power discussion would have been awesome between those two... and to see Maul kneeling at the feet of Palpatine; before losing his horned-head, would have made the treachery of the Sith very real, and much more deep. Knowing Maul's level of devotion to the Sith, and how Vader is only devoted to himself would make that scene (and Palpatine's error for wanting to convert a Jedi against Bane's teachings) ten times more intriguing than it is right now.
Obi-Chron posted:
As for Chris Lee, he could have played a Moff Tarkin type of role in AOTC and ROTS, or the basic role Grievous played (without the animatronic BS of GG) -- "countless" possibilities!
GG, doesn't even merit my time...
But Master Lee serving in a similar role as Cushing would have been more awesome than making him a geriatric Sith Lord that no-one really feared. To see Lee onscreen with that Cushing look alike would have been quite a treat for the CT fans.
All in all, great points Obi-Chron!
ShaneP posted:
What I like about Maul is that he is, aside from Sidious, the purest sith we see.
Not a fallen jedi turned to the darkside or anything.
That has been one of my contentions even before I read Path of Destruction and Rule of Two. Jedi do not make for real Sith Lords, they can't... its not in their nature.
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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BigBoy29
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
7/1 7:54pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
- Date Edited:
7/1 8:10pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
BigBoy29
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EECHUUTA posted:
BigBoy29 posted:
The "did Lord Maul out-popular Lord Vader?" question is always interesting and a good betting proposition.
To this day I say it is still is questionable --- but only in the "cool" or Halloween costume areas.
Guess what what one of my little neighbors was dressed in in Halloween 2007
I have a feeling it was probably Darth Vader
BigBoy29 posted:
EDIT: Like it or not, Maul has a legacy that supersedes Mr. Fett, but actually matches/surpasses Vader in certain areas. Damn good SW Villian --- probably the best.
I can understand how Maul has a far more lasting legacy then Mr. Fett, but how does he match or surpass Vader?
I did say certain areas .... two areas would be fan celebration/Halloween costume garb and fan meta-recollection.
What I mean by that is - Vader was portrayed by 3 different actors in SW, we saw him as "yippee" kid, crybaby young man, and the bad-ass suited Sith Lord, and pitiful man who got whooped, but who helps his son and makes the world a better place.
We saw Maul operate in about 2 weeks of his life - while he was a menace to society.
EU backstories notwithstanding on both these guys - Darth Maul is known only one way to us.
Look, my contention that Maul surpasses Vader in fan meta-recollection is very narrow.
But this is the thread to throw everything plus the kitchen sink to support the guy. He will never be the "face" of SW, but it a face that is well recognized and never has any ambiguity to it. Know what I mean??
-----signature-----
Lando: "She saved me at the Battle of Tannabe".
Han: "Hey remember, I won her fair and square."
Lando: "She was mine before she was yours, she was mine before she was yours ..."
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
7/2 6:44pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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The final installment of the Top 100 Countdown was published in the StarWars Homing Beacon #207 (Dec 2007) StarWars.com.
11. Darth Maul.
Darth Sidious was listed last week at #26.
The Sith came in at #4 and Darth Vader at #3.
Amazing that Maul ranked in the top 15 after being relegated to just one film.
Of course Vader is still the ICON for the entire saga, but how big would Maul have been if he'd been in all three PT flicks?
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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EECHUUTA
Registered:
Mar '07
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Date Posted:
7/2 8:06pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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To BigBoy29- I think i get what you mean. That he will be recognizable as an awsome Sith Lord by many fans, but Vader will be the prime emblem of Star Wars.
To SithStarSlayer- I have a feeling he would either be very huge, or fans would be complaining about him.
I think he was a good representative of the Sith besides Sidious. He shows what a pure Sith Apprentice looks like, before we get to former-Jedi Sith Apprentices.
True Sith are some really mean bastards. Former-Jedi-turned-Sith might be terrible, but they still have somewhat of that Jediness left in them, and may or may not show temperance when it comes to certain things. But true Sith are extremely vicious and will go for the throat. They have had compassion, mercy and whatever driven out of them by the cruel hand of their Masters. Sidious and his Apprentice Maul are good illustrations of this, as Sidious is ruthless in exploiting his opponants weaknesses, he is manipulative, he will kill when it suits him, etc. When he fights you, his sole intention is to kill. Maul has no loyalties save those to his Master, and he will rip into his opponant and keep going after them until he is killed. Like Sidious he enjoys killing, like Sidious he is ruthless. True Sith are not nice people.
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starwars-freak97
Registered:
Jul '08
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Date Posted:
7/2 8:34pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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I don't think that Darth Maul should have died. He was needed to help Obi-wan to become a master, but his reign of 'terror' was cut terribly short I think. But then again "Always two there is, no more, no less" 
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
7/4 6:03pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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Following-up on Big-Boy and Sx3's most excellent comments, Maul could have literally 'made' the prequel trilogy.
As the first trilogy centered on Luke with Vader as the antagonist, the PT could have, should have had Maul as the saga-long baddie against the 'chosen' Anakin.
Where Luke survives the temptation of the dark side and restrains himself from killing Vader, his father would not fare so nobly against the menacing Maul in the prequels.
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“It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.”
~ Joseph Campbell
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BigBoy29
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
7/4 11:29pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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Agreed, Obi Chron. Moreover, there was ample plot to explore A. Skywalker thinking, "I wanna be like this freakin' guy".
It would have gone over way better among the crowd -- instead what happened with Anakin getting pimped out by Chanchellor Ian Mac.
Fans would have been relating more with Vader if they saw him do some interesting things like team up, have a few duels, or ultimately have to be in a showdown with Lord Maul.
-----signature-----
Lando: "She saved me at the Battle of Tannabe".
Han: "Hey remember, I won her fair and square."
Lando: "She was mine before she was yours, she was mine before she was yours ..."
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
7/5 9:36am
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
- Date Edited:
7/5 9:52am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
SithStarSlayer
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I concur wholeheartedly with you and Obi Chron... and Biggie, you have hit on a point that has been a thorn in my side since I saw Anakin sobbing on his knees. CT trilogy Vader was no sap, nor was he a wuss. He was all about power. He loved it, abused it and forever wanted more of it. As I stated a few days ago, the thought of Anakin wanting more of what the Sith had, would have made for a more believable turn. In fact, the ROTS Novel actually did a decent job of conveying that. I was disappointed in how the turn was watered down.
Had Maul survived, he could have served as Kenobi's primary adversary and Anakin's object of desire, meaning his lust to be as powerful as Maul. THEN add his visions of Padme's demise, the Jedi Order's ineptitude regarding how to handle to those visions and it makes more sense that he would seek out more power... from anyone who would give it. The longer Maul lived (and did all that Dooku attempted to kill Padme), the greater Anakin's angst and the greater his rage onboard the Hand.
In my POV, there would be no regret inside Anakin for killing Maul, and guilty pleasure taken from it, would have been the point. Palptine should have drooled on himself when Anakin undid his cuffs.
Then later, in the office:
"I want the power to cheat death..."
"Then join me... Together; with the dark side of the Force, we can rediscover the secret and with it, we will bring order to the Republic! But you alone must choose..."
"I do not fear the darkside."
"Excellent, but are you ready to embrace it?"
"I am, Massster..." (Anakin kneels on his own as he says it)
"The Force is strong with you... henceforth, you shall be known as... Darth, Vader."
"Thank you, Lord Sidious..."
Now, that would have been something...
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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BigBoy29
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
7/9 12:08am
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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SSS - "In my POV, there would be no regret inside Anakin for killing Maul, and guilty pleasure taken from it, would have been the point. Palptine should have drooled on himself when Anakin undid his cuffs."
Right on.
The beef with A. Skywalker is that people sympathize too much for him - and of course, sympathy is the last street on the road towards ridicule.
And if dudes wanna sympathize with A. Skywalker, ...... meh, let'em.
It's like how I feel pity for a $20 prostitute who sold her body/soul to a cruel pimp and gets kicked and slapped around ...
A. Skywalker needed Maul in every way SSS put forth. Good stuff here!
-----signature-----
Lando: "She saved me at the Battle of Tannabe".
Han: "Hey remember, I won her fair and square."
Lando: "She was mine before she was yours, she was mine before she was yours ..."
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xx_Anakin_xx
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
7/10 1:14pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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What is there to feel sorry for Anakin/Vader for? He ended up on the high road, slamming back shots with the other lucky Force Ghosts. The person who needed Sympathy was Maul who was raised a dark lord and remained one until Kenobi split him in two - at which point he got to join the big black void. It is kinda sad because Maul really didn't know anything else his whole life. Perhaps there is redemption in the void?
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"Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'll do what I must"
"You will try"
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EECHUUTA
Registered:
Mar '07
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Date Posted:
7/10 4:40pm
Subject:
RE: Should Darth Maul have died?
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Well, there are some Sith Lords that have become Force Ghosts too, it not like they could never learn the technique....
I would feel sorry for any Sith or Jedi who didn't learn the technique, as they are now in the void 
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