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AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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Moleman1138
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Aug '04
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Date Posted:
1/15/05 9:19pm
Subject:
AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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Until the release of ROTS on 5/19/05, I would like to discuss AOTC chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: Attack of the Clones and Chapter 50: End Credits.
Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.
Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot
DISCUSSION: January 16, 2005 - January 20, 2005
DVD TIME INDEX: 75:20 - 77:44
Synopsis:
Back on Geonosis, Obi-Wan enter into the base of a rock formation. The Jedi looks around the inside of the structure and the surrounding architecture. Continuing through the spire, he sees the construction of a droid army in part of the Geonosian factory. Stumbling on a band of separatists discussing their plan, Obi-Wan shifts out of view. Dooku tells his comrades that he will persuade the Commerce Guild and the Corporate Alliance to join their pact. Viceroy Gunray of the Trade Federation refuses to sign until the head of Padme Amidala is on his desk. Wat Tambor of the Techno Union pledges his battle droids to the cause. Obi-Wan follows them, watching from above a conference room. Dooku is confidant more systems will rally to their cause. The aliens in conference as unsure of Dooku and say that what they're doing is treason. The Techno Union and Banking Clan pledge their support to Dooku as well as the Trade Federation. Adding to what he persuaded, Dooku says that the Republic will bow to their wishes as will the Jedi. END OF CHAPTER
Opinion:
Obi-Wan continues to sneak around Geonosis in this thick plot thickener. We are introduce to another throw away character and many small villlains who are nothing more than a band of flunkies.
The scenery is simple beautiful. The interior spire of the separatist headquarters is nothing we've seen before in these films and the angle looking up at the ceiling is one of the best subtle executions of cinematography in this saga. The sounds work well. Every clank in the droid factory, the steps of the characters, everything is just superb to one degree or another.
It's good that we get to see what the villain is thinking. We rarely see a counter plan from the villains, just a plan from our protagonists. Unfortunately we are abruptly introduced to Count Dooku. His introduction would have worked better if the Lost Twenty remained in the film. Just like Zam and Jango, he's another throw away villain. It was all about finding the assassin through the film. Now with what time we have we're introduced to the more perplexing problem.
The scene works better with the fixed flaws earlier in the film, but all and all, it's pretty good. Gives Obi-Wan more time to snoop around instead of confronting the bounty hunter. Good chapter.
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Tyranus_the_Hutt
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
1/15/05 10:17pm
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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I really love the fact that Lucas and his cinematographer, David Tattersal, use a handheld camera to follow Obi-Wan as he begins to spy on Dooku and the seperatists - it isn't a stylistic method that we are used to seeing in the "Star Wars" pictures. Most of the compositions are pretty formal and straightforward, but not here, as the composition perhaps suggests the uneasiness and unrest that is beginning to unfurl.
As for the scene itself, it does represent an interesting "introduction" to Dooku. I have mentioned elsewhere that Dooku is sort of like the Harry Lime character in this film - we spend the first hour of the picture hearing about him, which in turn feeds our curiousity, therefore resulting in his physical reveal or appearance being much more effective.
There is also a very deliberate and pervasive sense of grim remove to the entire sequence - it is chilly and foreboding in a way that I am not quite able to describe. The music, the dialogue, the visuals and the tone all contribute to this cumulative effect. With this sequence, Lucas is able to resolve the 1940s Philip Marlowe and Sam Spade references which characterize the Obi-Wan plot strand/arc, and thus clear a path for the introduction of a new aesthetic into the last portion of the film.
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Darth_Falcon
Title: Classic Trilogy Trivia Host
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
1/15/05 10:28pm
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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I find this scene a disappointment on a couple of levels.
Firstly as an introduction to Dooku's character, i don't believe we get enough information on who or what he is. With references from Padme and the opening scroll early in the movie, you wait till this scene to meet the character with little satisfaction. All we find out this guy hangs around with some weird looking dudes and chairs a meeting between them. The authority or power figure that he's meant to be doesn't shine through here.
Secondly, the alien that says what you are proposing could be considered treason, she never gets a response. It's like we are missing a line from the script. I want to hear Dooku's excuse or rather his spin to get the alien onside.
Just my opinion. 
On the other hand, Obi Wan is one sneaky Jedi hanging out in the roof and not even sensed by Dooku. The next James Bond 
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DarthTunick
Title: Host: The JCC Weekly Poll
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
1/16/05 1:50am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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Moleman, you're are 100% about this scene. if the "Lost Twenty" had been kept in, this scene would have been better, but we ultimately get isn't bad. i love the look Nute Gunray has on his face after Dooku mentions the Trade Federation, poor bastard just wants some justice!
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RebelScum77
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
1/16/05 8:10am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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What I like about this is the sneaking around... it's very old school sci-fi/action serial. The hero somehow manages to sneak up to the group of plotting villains, and of course he overhears something important.
This scene was an excellent choice to break up the Anakin action. It's important, but not as heavy. And it's a good stylistic match to the Tatooine scenes, you're never completely pulled out of the "feeling" of them.
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darthmedium
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
1/16/05 8:31am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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I can't help but agree with you, RebelScum 77.
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
1/16/05 8:40am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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agree with the the lost 20 comment. dooku is displaying his diplomatic prowess - reeling in all the future members of the alliance playing it low-keyed living up the title of "count". the sleuthing by obi wan seems a tad contrived in that dooku did not sense his presence - or maybe he did but didn't want the others to know? factory sounds a preview to the brief glimpse by obiwan to take in exactly what is being produced. wish ewan had displayed more facial reactions besides that open mouth which he uses a lot.
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Hades2021
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
1/16/05 9:17am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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I love this chapter. Nute Gunray's lines are awesome. Also, Christopher Lee is a great actor. One thing I don't like is the techno union army guy. His voice was fine before he tuned it. He didn't even need to tune it.
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darthmedium
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
1/16/05 9:33am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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Techno Union army... silly.
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"My hair is blowing in the wind"- Natalie Portman, Garden State
"American boy, American girl
Most beautiful people, in the world
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Dancin' through the midnight whirlpool" -Jim Morrison
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RebelScum77
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
1/16/05 9:41am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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It's entirely possible that Dooku wanted Obi-Wan to overhear what they were saying. He should have recognized the Jedi's Force presence immediately (unless Obi-Wan can "hide" it). Dooku did, afterall, tell Obi-Wan the truth when he was captured. The more the Jedi think that the Seperatists are their own independant group, the less likely they'll pick up that it's really the Sith who are controlling them.
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Tatooine_Fireman
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
1/16/05 12:17pm
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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Geonosis is one of my favorite planets of the entire saga, and this chapter showcases its mysterious beauty. The host of the ceiling is gorgeous, and the music in this chapter fits perfectly, though it is used many times throughout the movie.
I also liked seeing Obi-Wan snooping around like he did on the Death Star. This may not be intentionally, but it resonates between the two movies very nicely.
It's a pity there is very few build up to Count Dooku's character. He is mentioned in the crawl, and one time on Coruscant, but that's it. I agree with the posters above me, the Lost 12 scene in the Jedi archieves would've added greatly to Dooku's character. Also, there isn't really a sense of danger to this scene, since the people Dooku is addressing are, IMO, a bunch of rather cartoony aliens. Maybe a bit more tough, mysterious looking aliens, and not just CG ones, could have done it.
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GARTH_MAUL
Title: Photorealistic LACWAC Manager
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/16/05 9:49pm
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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After all the bashing and gushing of TPM, now, awaiting ROTS, I only wish Lucas had envisioned the excellent character of Dooku in TPM.
Even if there was just a mention of him leaving the Order near the end and/or the Lost 20, it would have nicely set up AOTC.
Nevertheless, I pretty much agree with the opinions expressed above.
I think it's totally left open as to whether or not Dooku senses Obi-Wan....but is it a coincidence he gets caught right after he delivers enough info to set the trap?
Although it sucks our first scene with Dooku is this late in the AOTC, I really like him in this scene - he seems distinguished and polite, unlike any SW villain we've seen so far.
And he's commanding the heads of the TF, the Banking Clan, the Commerce Guild, the Techno Union...obviously he has a lot of influence.
One last point - I like the fact that Obi-Wan can be seen as a "fly on the wall" in a huge hive of insect-like aliens.
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openmind
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
1/16/05 10:40pm
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
- Date Edited:
1/16/05 10:41pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
openmind
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he seems distinguished and polite, unlike any SW villain we've seen so far.
Yep. Seems like he was from a time of a "civilized age".
To me this could be what GL wants us to think about, when Obi Wan had eloquently mentioned to Luke when he reminisced life before the Dark Times.
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Count_Solidus
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
1/16/05 11:03pm
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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Yep. Seems like he was from a time of a "civilized age".
They make the best villians, don't you think?
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Jeff 42
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Sep '98
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Date Posted:
1/17/05 12:29am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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What I really like about this scene is the feeling I get that Obi-Wan must be thinking something like, Wait a minute. I just discovered a massive clone army created in secret on Kamino, and here they're talking about their secret droid army that will be the "most powerful in the galaxy." This can't be a coincidence. Something very bad is going on here... The whole second half or so of AotC just amazes me with the sense of impending doom it conveys, and this scene really adds to that.
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HookLineAndSinker
Title:
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Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
1/17/05 3:48am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 31: Dooku's Separatist Plot DISCUSSION
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And he's commanding the heads of the TF, the Banking Clan, the Commerce Guild, the Techno Union...obviously he has a lot of influence.
You know what's wrong with that statement? It's missing the Corporate Alliance!!!!
I HATE THIS CHAPTER WITH A PASSION. George and Ben cut Passel Argente yet left in "We must persuade the Commerce Guild AND the Corporate Alliance to sign the treaty."
He doesn't seem to accomplish this at the meeting with Mai saying it's treason and Passel never saying anything. Not to mention he says that line when Passel is walking with them.
When we heard all the cut scenes to AOTC, I was happy to learn this scene was still there. But when I saw it in the theater I was so surprised by the lack of Passel.  I just don't understand. Why George? Why? What was one more line? I guess I should be thankful he made it to ROTS with his aide Denaria Kee.
Then there's that bloody Toonbuck Toora/Rogwa Wodrata thing sitting about.
I'm also curious as to why Darth Tyranus did not sense a Jedi Knight hiding behind a pillar.
I do admit though that I was excited to finally get into the thick of things when Dooku, Nute, and the others showed up. Hearing Christopher Lee as Dooku, Carsons Gunray voice, and the deep Wat Tambor was chilling.
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