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Moleman1138 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Aug '04	Date Posted: 2/1/05 7:31pm Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	I always did like Padme's gown in this chapter. Makes her look more like a woman that her Tatooine handmaiden garb last time around in TPM. -----signature----- Host of CBC (Chapter by Chapter) for PT, CT and SFF forums and Box Office Game ROTS-DS Chapter 3: Seeds of Rebellion FOTR Chapter 29: Bilbo's Gifts TSS Chapter 17: Facts and Feathers (8/24/07)
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Tatooine_Fireman Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 2/2/05 12:50am Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	To be honest, the one thing that really bugs me (and maybe it's because I'm a costume designer for theatre) is Padmé's outfit here. It's unlike anything else she wears in either movie. The outergarment, which is reminescent of a sort of Mexican blanket, is too stiff and awkward, she doesn't look like she can move in it well. I like the sheer undergown though, it's as if you can see the real her through it. I can fabricate elborate reasons for this design choice, but I really don't understand or like it. Something much simpler, Princess Leia-style, would have been a far better choice. Or what she was wearing when Anakin left, I don't think anyone would have questioned why she was in the same outfit. I agree on that, RebelScum77. I liked that Padme's Tatooine outfit in Tatooine was really desgined for life on that planet. Her AOTC Tatooine outfits don't have that at all, to me, it seems they were just designed to expose as much of Padme as they could. Her outfits really stand out against those of Anakin, Cliegg, Owen and Beru. -----signature----- "The Dark Side. Always it speaks to us, from our pain. Our grief. It connects our pain to all pain. Our hurt to all hurt." - Yoda, Dark Rendezvous "Look at us. Are these the faces of victory?" - Darth Vader, Dark Lord
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Qui-Dawn Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 2/2/05 1:23am Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	True enough, openmind, in how - despite his very great tangle of fury, blame and torment - he is still so very much the lost little boy at heart....the boy who for so long had only his mother as a true, stable, constant, forever-loving presence in his life, always protecting him and wanting only the very best things in life for him. His mother was always his mainstay and bulwark....and when that little boy ran back to her warm, comforting arms in TPM, for instance, loath to let her go, he was only seeking solace from the one person who was his world entire. When he so clung to her, it was because - as that hopeful, scared, innocent, good-hearted boy - he dreaded letting go of that one stable thing in his life....his mother being the one thing he'd always been able to count on, her presence a constant spot of warmth and light in his universe. As the little boy, he needed that to sustain his very soul. And even when he held her in that urtya, felt her dying in his arms....piteously, agonizingly suffering as no mother ever should, as he simply couldn't bear to see it, for she was after all his mother....as long as he'd known her, she'd always been the strong one in his life, the constant warm, loving enduring presence. Only now, he was the one still vainly struggling to find comfort and safety in her presence....desperately striving to feel assuaged, soothed now that he was back with her again - only it of course wasn't the same, it never could be again....and the little boy who'd loved and cleaved to and needed his mother for so, so very long - was utterly lost without her. When he was left completely, terribly, brutally alone like that....well, it is just that, truly - he was the confused, stricken, heartbroken, fearful child desperate for comfort....and finding none. Desperate for her warmth and light in his life....yet finding only loneliness. When the lost, lonely, afraid, hurting little boy needed his mother....he didn't have her, and never could again. When she was perhaps the only one who could have soothed that much hurt and anguish....the only one in his life who'd always been able to make it better....she was gone, and never again could salve his wounds. No matter how much he'd grown, he was always the boy who loved his mother, was devoted to her and simply, truly needed her love and light and stable presence in his life....in all the ways that counted, of course, and which only break one's heart for him in acute, keen sympathy all the more - he did still remain the small, loving, beloved boy who clung to her, ran into her arms....brightened up every day of her life as well, there's no question. He never stopped being that young boy who needed comfort and sustaining, nurturing love in his life. And of course, it's those moments when you see that utter, raw vulnerability and broken innocence in his tearful eyes....hearing it in the quaver of his voice....he just tears at your heart all the more, and it's then that you only want to take him in your arms, comfort him and hush away all his tears. And at least Padme was there to do it....said it before and I'll say it again, she saved him - and gave that little boy within him, the piteous, confused, stricken child, the soothing, understanding, comfort and caring that he most needed. She became the one remaining stable, constant presence of love and warmth, security and peace in his life....but one last thing that he could truly count on, and cleave to in even his darkest moments of utter despair....trusting her to save him from the dark. Dawn. -----signature----- Anakin Skywalker is shagadelic! "...I'm far too beautiful!" - Lorenzo de Lamberti The Rambling Court Bard of the A&P Defenders Royal Court Hayden is MY Love Muffin
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HookLineAndSinker Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Oct '01	Date Posted: 2/2/05 11:18am Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	First I'd like to acknowledge the cut scene between Padme and Beru preparing Anakins meal before this scene. Beru asking Padme what Naboo is like and then confessing she wouldn't want to live there. It kinda makes you realize that not everyone on Tatooine is miserable. People do live their by choice and like it. The confession scene was great. Anakin expressing his anger towards himself, the sandpeople, and Obi-Wan. Though I do sympathize with him. The sandpeople are monsters. They just tortured Shmi to death. But then again if Anakin can murder an entire village, what if something like that happens again? The moment Anakin turns around and the dark side theme plays is the best moment of the film in my opinion. You also have to think about how Anakin was put into the situation of killing the tuskens. Palpatine guided Anakin into a mission on his own. Did he forsee some sort of complications like this? He knew Anakin would be vulnerable to outside influences, namely Padme. But what about Shmi's death? Did he know his emotions would go gonzo? Hmm -----signature----- Always look on the bright side of life, because the other side is too dark to see.
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Moleman1138 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Aug '04	Date Posted: 2/3/05 9:54am Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	The Padme/Beru scene should have been kept in. Beru has done nothing except say "Hello..." Padme does a little bit on Tatooine until now. -----signature----- Host of CBC (Chapter by Chapter) for PT, CT and SFF forums and Box Office Game ROTS-DS Chapter 3: Seeds of Rebellion FOTR Chapter 29: Bilbo's Gifts TSS Chapter 17: Facts and Feathers (8/24/07)
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Hades2021 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 2/3/05 1:26pm Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	Not much to add but I agree with most of everything here. Just note one more thing, Hayden's acting you can hear the shift between the boy and the man. It's awesome. The line: "I'm good at fixing things. Always was." sounds like Jake Lloyd And then of course, all the lines afterward sound like an emerging Vader. -----signature----- "LIAR!" "Anakin, you're breaking my heart!" Nute Gunray Fan club
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cypher9000 Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 2/3/05 11:30pm Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	I'm pretty sure that it's not a zoom but rather a tracking in of the camera into Padme's face. Zooms looks different, they kind of compress the space without a sense of the camera moving (look at the shot later of Padme in that giant cup thing in the factory). Just a heads up to you guys, moving the camera is different than zooming in. Zooming is all in the lens, and it doesnt have that feeling that the camera is moving.
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THX-1138_biggs Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 2/4/05 12:56am Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION - Date Edited: 2/4/05 12:58am (1 edits total) Edited By: THX-1138_biggs
	Its probably one of the most dramatic scenes in the whole saga. This is also one of Lucas' best directed scenes. By the way... I know this might sound stupid, I've been reading these "chapter" threads but I've missed a few, and I also wish to review the early ones... would anybody know a way to find the last 33 chapters... yeah I know. -----signature----- "This is where the fun begins" -- Anakin, ROTS
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Tyranus_the_Hutt Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 2/4/05 2:05am Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	cypher9000 - You may have a point. I don't watch these "chapters" before posting in the corresponding threads, so I base many of my comments on memory. "Zooming in" both magnifies and flattens the image, to optically create the feeling of movement - the subject appears to become gradually larger as the focal length of the camera's lens is changed. Tracking, or more specifically, dollying is a mechanical process of achieving a similar effect. I am not a technician, so I am not always able to discern between the types of shots being used. The shot of Padme in the Droid Factory is definitely a zoom, and a clunky one at that. Regardless of the type of shot employed by Lucas in the garage confession scene, I think that he "pushes-in" too quickly on her countenance. Minor quibble. -----signature----- "The screen is a magic medium. It has such power that it can retain interest as it conveys emotions and moods that no other art form can hope to tackle." - Stanley Kubrick
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Ares505 Registered: Jun '04	Date Posted: 2/4/05 2:50am Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	I think this scene is well executed technically, and competantly acted. I appreciated the return to the Lars garage/basement area, always a fav. Its the story line itself and what it says about the characters themselves that I find a little disbelieving. Its at this point that I believe Anakin is no longer a Jedi in ANY way shape or form. The massacre, his misplaced anger at Obi-Wan, his avowed dedication to beating death and becoming the most powerful jedi ever, all of this didnt surprise me in the least. Needless to say a Jedi seeks not such things, and though he still has the force the Jedi ideal is long gone, and that to me is the most essential part. He does have to become Vader after all and this moves that along quite nicely. The disappointment comes in Padmes reaction to his confessions. This was in my mind a very compassionate character, but more so a humanitarian and a very level headed person. But after her comforting of Anakin in this scene and later her caving in at the arena I lose alot of respect for her. This guy just commited the murder of women and children, Tuskens granted but I dont believe she knows what they are anyway, and she dismisses it as if its nothing. Water off her back, nothing of concern. To be angry is to be human is all she can say? He commits the type of crime she was so oppossed to happening to her people in TPM and she marries this guy? He says he knows hes better than this, but obviously hes not because he did it. I cant believe she takes this self admonition as proof hes all better now and reformed. That hes not still damn dangerous. Its just a leap away from logic and level headedness I thought id never see from her. Then of course there is the Jedi Code she knows she is breaking with Anakin, he tells her attachment is forbidden, but shes in love so its okay. Let me clarify and say I expected Anakins actions and his confession of dreams of grandure but the massacre confession I didnt expect, I thought Padme would not know how homicidal he had really gotten before they marry. I think these were the first and wont be the last times Padme disappoints me in her moral compass, fortitude, and other respects. I give her a hearty dose of blame in Anakins downfall, but thats just IMHO. If lucas wanted to show us how love can make you blind I think he does a SUPERB job with Padme here. The burial scene is touching, the segway to Obi-wans message is deftly done and I can feel a little for Anakin here. But overall after this scene, and given everything else in AOTC I find Anakin to not be a sympathetic character to me at all. The darkside has a firm hold, and lies, mistrust, and greed are all I see from him till the end of the movie.
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lovelucas Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 2/4/05 10:21am Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	IMO palpatine not only knew about the tuskens he orchestrated the entire event, beginning with shmi's kidnapping. this was all part of the process of turning anakin, as was palps "suggesting" that someone padme's knows (initially obi-wan but mace then chose anakin) should be her protector and escort her to naboo. palpatine has been behind everything - EVERYTHING! trade wars/clouding of the jedis' vision/erasing the archives/dooku's involvement and turning/separists wanting to, well, separate from the republic - he's plotting, planning and ensuring that everything he has "foreseen" comes true, exactly as planned. -----signature----- The world will never have lasting peace so long as men reserve for war the finest human qualities. Peace is not just the absence of violence but the manisfestation of human compassion. Yub Yub makes the world go 'round
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Qui-Dawn Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 2/4/05 3:04pm Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	See, now, here's the thing about this idea that Palpatine somehow could've orchestrated Shmi's abduction and torture....well, aside from all the other reasons why logistically, it doesn't seem to make a whole lot o' sense....well, for starters - even if Palpatine did order them to do that, what would stop the Tuskens from killing her outright, hm? What if they had ended up killing her well before Anakin even got there? Very likely things would've played out rather differently, and also probably not as Palpatine could've necessarily hoped or expected they might. There would simply be far too many variables in such a plan, too many possibilities that it could go awry - and if there's one thing Palpatine is fanatical about, it's ensuring that everything transpires according to his design. Truth is, too much would be unduly risked if he were to try orchestrating such a situation, with so many uncertainties and unquantifiable elements....and he's not about to make such stupid, reckless mistakes. And....Le Sigh....as for thinking that Padme should have - what, spurned Anakin, turned away from him, when he was so clearly broken-down, emotionally raw, vulnerable and desperate....should she have ripped him to pieces, added to his distress, turmoil, confusion and pain? Should she have only caused him more? Should she have derived him of the one bit of genuine, human comfort that he was so desperately cleaving to, then more than ever before? Should she have taken from him the one thing remaining which might save him from the dark? I'll tell you something straightaways here....if she had spurned him, turned her back on someone obviously so desperately torn and suffering....there would have been nothing, nothing to save him from the dark, pull him back from the brink. No matter what else he'd said or done, he needed comfort and compassion, because that was the only way to save him....and rather than abandoning him to darkness and despair, she brought him up out of it. And that, beyond any doubt, is a truly, wonderfully compassionate and empathetic thing to do....for we do not abandon those we care about in their time of need, plain and simple - when someone's suffering, badly wracked by pain, confusion and utter anguish - we do not (or at least, no one with a soul or conscience ever should) turn away from them....turning our backs on those who need us so desperately. When we care, we reach out to them....we do what we can to help those we love, save them, do right by them....and this is precisely what Padme did for Anakin. Irregardless of what he'd said and done, he truly needed her then....and if she'd somehow denied him that, he might have been lost to her forever....utter despair, grief and loss might have completely overwhelmed him - were it not for her. Since she cared, she could not abandon him in his time of grief, confusion and loss....nor, I should like to believe, would anyone else here - with those we do care for. The way Padme reacted....what she did for Anakin....it was very human, entirely compassionate and sympathetic, innately understanding of his needs and his suffering....she gave him what he truly needed then, and went some way towards healing his soul because of it. She saved him then, when someone else might have left him to fall forever....but she did not give up on him. And, I would also like to point out, that is precisely the kind of faith, trust and love that their son inherited....and which enabled him to save Anakin all over again. Even if no one else does, you must have faith in the ones you love....care for them, help them, support them when they need you....wipe away their tears when they cry....you believe in them even if no one else can, simply because you love them - and that faith, utter understanding and trust is in itself to save a person's soul. It certainly was for Anakin....more than once! Dawn. -----signature----- Anakin Skywalker is shagadelic! "...I'm far too beautiful!" - Lorenzo de Lamberti The Rambling Court Bard of the A&P Defenders Royal Court Hayden is MY Love Muffin
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Qui-Dawn Registered: Jul '00	Date Posted: 2/4/05 3:43pm Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	And...."lies, mistrust and greed".... shakes head, bemused Clearly, folks who have this perspective on it must've been watching a completely different film....that's the only reasonable explanation for it that I can think of. Such a thing couldn't possibly be more totally far-removed from what I see and make note of....I mean, honestly now.... Was Anakin acting out of "lies, mistrust and greed" when he risked his own neck to leap right in and parry Dooku's death-blow, saving Obi-Wan's life? What about when he risked himself yet again to save Padme....more than once? What about when he displayed for her such unswerving devotion and care, such total loyalty, that he'd risk most all else to ensure that she was safe and alright? What about when he - when both of them - risked so much by marrying....yes, in secret, but it had to be for the time being....but that does not mean that their marriage was a lie. Demeaning, and it also flies directly in the face of everything we see and know. Dawn. -----signature----- Anakin Skywalker is shagadelic! "...I'm far too beautiful!" - Lorenzo de Lamberti The Rambling Court Bard of the A&P Defenders Royal Court Hayden is MY Love Muffin
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obi_bear Registered: Jan '05	Date Posted: 2/4/05 7:00pm Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	What a great discussion...I wish I'd come back to this board earlier for this discussion. It's jus so refreshing to read some other folk's appreciation for AOTC. My thoughts on chapter 34: Moleman, Tyranus and Dawn have already quite eloquently expressed how well this scene plays both visually and acting-wise. The most impressive thing to me is the oft-mentioned subtlety of both Hayden & Natalie's performances. The full gament of emotions that is expressed is amazing. It's mentioned in the 'making of book "Once Upon a Galaxy" for ESB that Carrie Fisher often studied silent films, learning just how much of a performance in film is in visually communicating along with whatever lines are verbally spoken (or in the case of silent films, inserted on the occasional flashcards). I wonder if either Hayden or Natalie have studied silent films to hone their craft...from their performances in these scenes it sure seems possible. Lucas himself has said (and I'm paraphrasing madley here) that SW films are like silent movies... that the images and music could be enough to carry the viewer along through the film. Chapter 34 is a wonderful illustration of this....try watching the scene silently and you still get the dramatic thrust of the scene thanks in a big way to the acting performances. Looking forward to readingmore of this great conversation on subsequent chapters...
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black_saber Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 2/4/05 8:30pm Subject: RE: AOTC Chapter 34: "You're Not All-Powerful" DISCUSSION
	I Really liked the Part where Clieg Lars Explained about the Tuskin Raiders and how Evil they Are. Its also cool to see Anakin look at the Sunset and it remineds me of a New Hope but darker. Then Anakin gives padme a hug then we see anger in his eyes on his speeder. -----signature----- "Just when I thought I was out , they push me back in."
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