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AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
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Moleman1138
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Aug '04
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Date Posted:
2/12/05 1:37pm
Subject:
AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
- Date Edited:
2/12/05 1:44pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Moleman1138
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Until the release of ROTS on 5/19/05, I would like to discuss AOTC chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: Attack of the Clones and Chapter 50: End Credits.
Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.
Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive
DISCUSSION: February 10, 2005 - February 14, 2005
DVD TIME INDEX: 90:48 - 93:33
Synopsis:
Count Dooku enters a Geonosian dungeon, guarded by some Geonosians. Obi-Wan held by shackles and a blue beam calls Dooku a traitor immediately. Dooku says that Obi-Wan's capture was a mistake and he will petition a release. Obi-Wan grows weary of Dooku's honesty. Dooku says that he had nothing to do with it. The Jedi says he must be set free since there is work that must be done. The elder Jedi questions Kenobi's presence on Geonosis. Obi-Wan says he has tracked a bounty hunter named Jango Fett to the planet and is still searching for him. Dooku says there are no bounty hunter on Geonosis since the locals don't trust them. Dooku says he wishes they would have crossed paths earlier in life and desires for Qui-Gon to still be alive, since he would help him in his quest. Obi-Wan refuses to believe that Qui-Gon would betray the Republic. Dooku reveals that Qui-Gon was his apprentice at one time, but didn't know about the corruption in the Senate like his master. Count Dooku then reveals that the Senate is under the control of a Darth Sidious, Dark Lord of the Sith.The Jedi refuses to believe his captor. Dooku continues his story saying Nute Gunray was betrayed by Sidious and came to him for help. The captor demands Obi-Wan to join him and destroy the Sith. Kenobi refuses and Dooku keeps him as his captive with no possible release. END OF CHAPTER
Opinion:
This chapter is the perfect way to reveal so much, yet so little from Phantom Menace. When ROTS comes out in just a few short months, I feel this chapter will be able to tie the entire trilogy together in the aspect of the rise and revenge of the Sith.
This is the first time Dooku and Obi-Wan confront each other and it's better than I could expect. We learn that Dooku was once Qui-Gon's master and that Sidious is controlling the Senate, even though we have yet to see him since the Battle of Naboo in TPM. Back in the initial release, I thought there was something TPM wasn't telling us about Qui-Gon and his possible dark side.
It perfectly parallels the ESB revelation, but could nowhere compare in strength. The blue confinement beam belongs in a serial and yet the first time I saw it, I was like what the heck is this. I was so used to the cells in the OT. The cinematography and camera angles are dead on. As is the idea of Obi-Wan rotating in a 360 motion and yet speaking to Dooku at the same time.
Very good chapter to tie up what happened to Obi-Wan right before we get into the biggest battle of the series to date. Tempting Obi-Wan worked, probably more so than it would with the deleted Padme and Anakin scene. Excellent chapter.
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Host of CBC (Chapter by Chapter) for PT, CT and SFF forums and Box Office Game
ROTS-DS Chapter 3: Seeds of Rebellion
FOTR Chapter 29: Bilbo's Gifts
TSS Chapter 17: Facts and Feathers
(8/24/07)
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Obi_Frans
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
2/12/05 1:42pm
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
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Actually, we learn Dooku was once Qui-Gon's master 
Excellent chapter, really nothing i can nitpick about. I was intrigued when seeing Obi Wan captive in the trailers, and this scene more than rewarded whatever intuitions i had.
[3po] Obi Wanderful! [/]
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"He only wanted to save them. Padme, from death. Obi-Wan, from ignorance
But they failed to recognize his power. Instead, Padme was dead & Obi-Wan was running for his life
As stripped of everything as Vader was. Without friends, family, purpose"
- Vader
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Mace Windy
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
2/12/05 2:15pm
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
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"It may be difficult to secure your release." = best line of the film! 
 Mace Windy,
too windy for spoilers!
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Amon_Amarth
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
2/12/05 2:18pm
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
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OW Captive Chapter:
Good, but not among the best AOTC moments. Only important and interasting thing is that we find out is fact Qui-Gon was once a Dooku's Padawan. Other than that, it was pretty boring scene.
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Jedi Guardian - Acolytes of Revan
"The Force is fine...but I would have preferred some company."
'Caenorhabditis elegans' is much better than Darth Plagueis at cheating death.
"Don't **** with the Jedi Master, son!" Mark Hamill, CE
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hansen
Registered:
Apr '03
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Date Posted:
2/12/05 3:16pm
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
- Date Edited:
2/12/05 3:18pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
hansen
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Many great lines in this very quotable chapter.
I really love the tension between Dooku and Obi-Wan in this chapter, and also how Dooku shows his Sith ways by being both a manpulatör and apparently willing to betray Sidious if it can be to his advantage.
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HookLineAndSinker
Title:
Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
2/12/05 10:33pm
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
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I love this chapter. It wasn't in the original script but was needed. I remember when we learned via spoilers that Dooku was Qui-Gons master. We barely believed it. We were just like "where did that come from?"
Dooku is all about the lies in this chapter. Excellent job by Christopher Lee. They bring Qui-Gon Jinn back into the story after hearing his voice a few chapters back. Gets you wondering what is going on. This scene would have been helped with the extended library scene but oh well.
So Count Dooku mentions Darth Sidious. This was not an act of defiance towards his master. This was on purpose. Get the Jedi paranoid. Have them watch the Senate. They won't find anything because the dark side clouds their vision. Yet they still doubt Dooku's words so it only confuses them. Dooku doesn't expect Obi-Wan to die in some arena show. The plan is to start a war. Sidious also wants to test Skywalker. Also by telling Skywalkers master of Sidious, you also have Skywalker himself looking for you and that's just what Sidious wants. He will come to him.
Dooku's exit line was one of the best in the film. You're just like "you bastard."
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Always look on the bright side of life, because the other side is too dark to see.
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cypher9000
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
2/12/05 11:27pm
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
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"This is maddness!" When Dooku first came in and overacted the lines about how this was all a mistake, I was laughing man. The way Lee delivered those lines was amazingly dead on and perfect for showing that Lee is lieing.
I'm glad this scene got in there, because it really was a great addition to the film and was much better than the Anakin Padme trial thing.
I have to agree though tha the extended library scene really would have helped this scene out, and it would have helped a number of other spots in this movie.
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Lars_Muul
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
2/13/05 12:38am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
- Date Edited:
2/13/05 12:42am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lars_Muul
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Wonderful scene, one of my absolute favorites. I love how the music starts the moment Dooku has said "Hundreds of senators are now under the influence of a Sith Lord called Darth Sidious".
It gives you the feeling that this is a really big moment. Dooku reveals something that the Jedi haven't had the slightest idea about, while we in the audience have known about it for ten years(storywise). To me, it does compare to "I am your father".
It's also great that Dooku actually spills the beans to Obi-Wan. He tells him everything about who this Darth Sidious is, without actually mentioning the words "Supreme", "Chancellor" and "Palpatine": "What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of the Dark Lord of the Sith?"
Coupled with the senator line above, he couldn't get more specific than that.
If the Jedi were to use a child's logic, they would suspect Palpatine.
I also believe that Dooku does want Obi-Wan's help, so that he can eventually become the Sith Master. I don't know if he expects Obi-Wan to survive the execution, though.
The Jedi are too clever for their own good
/LM
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DarthTunick
Title: Host: The JCC Weekly Poll
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
2/13/05 12:56am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
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The only problem with this scene is that the revelation made by Dooku (that Sidious has control of the Senate) is already known to 80-90% of the people watching the film, so it's not going to be a huge shock. Except for that, I enjoyed this scene, from Lee's superb acting (hamming up "This is a mistake", his killer end line "It maybe difficult to secure your release:) to the mention of Qui-Gon & how the audience can see two possible sides of Qui-Gon: Would he help Dooku or Obi-Wan?
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September 11th, 2001  -Never forget Viva La Ciudad de Los Angeles!  RIP, Cody "Snowball" Reeves, 1978-2008.  Let me explain something to you about the Dude...... 2008 NLCS: Dodgers vs. Phillies, Philly leads 1-0 
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Lars_Muul
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
2/13/05 1:00am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
- Date Edited:
2/13/05 1:01am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lars_Muul
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It's not supposed to surprise the audience. From TPM, we know that Sidious has great power in the senate.
The surprise value is in the fact that Dooku actually tells Obi-Wan.
Dooku is the man
/LM
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Lars_Muul
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
2/13/05 2:05am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
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...and the fact that Dooku actually knows. Up until then, Dooku seems to work completely on his own accord.
Count Dooku
/LM
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DarthTunick
Title: Host: The JCC Weekly Poll
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
2/13/05 2:27am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
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Why wouldn't Dooku tell Obi-Wan?
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September 11th, 2001 -Never forget Viva La Ciudad de Los Angeles! RIP, Cody "Snowball" Reeves, 1978-2008. Let me explain something to you about the Dude...... 2008 NLCS: Dodgers vs. Phillies, Philly leads 1-0
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Lars_Muul
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
2/13/05 2:49am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
- Date Edited:
2/13/05 2:49am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lars_Muul
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Because it's a secret.
Obi-Wan Kenobi has a beard
So does Dooku
I wonder if they are brothers
/LM
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Tyranus_the_Hutt
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
2/13/05 2:55am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
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Christopher Lee is excellent in this scene, as is Ewan McGregor, who, as the foil, has somewhat less to do. As one of the many scenes added after principle photography, I must admit that I am particularly pleased with the level of quality in both the dialogue and the performances. Having made more than 100 films, Lee is very much accustomed to speaking this sort of declarative language; his raspy, quietly nasal voice is sheathed in a layer of gravitas, which in turn lends a considerable amount of conviction to his inflection and tone of voice. Other actors might stumble under the pulpy weightedness of lines such as "You must join me, Obi-Wan, and together, we will destroy the Sith", but not Lee, whose delivery is transformative. Though we (deliberately) know very little about Dooku, with his commanding performance, Lee forces us to take interest in his character. I also love how Lee attempts to feign sadness over Qui-Gon Jinn's death in the hope that he might rouse and ultimately tempt Obi-Wan. McGregor's responses are well exclamated by the actor: "Traitor!"; "I'll never join you, Dooku!" Yes, the parallel to "The Empire Strikes Back" is obvious, but nonetheless, this is wonderful stuff.
I do have a few problems with some of the top-lighting in this scene, which, while deliberate in its casting of shadow, seems to be somewhat murky when captured on 24-p and then projected with a standard (film) projector onto a 70-foot screen. I was under the impression that DP David Tattersall wasn't available for AOTC's pick-up shots, and so someone else was brought in to work in his place. Perhaps this had something to do with the change in quality in this scene? I don't know enough of the situation to be able to form a conclusive statement one way or the other.
Regarding the fact that Dooku's statements to Obi-Wan reveal things that are, to most audiences, quite clear, I think that these points were addressed earlier in the film. Doesn't Mace Windu tell Yoda that "I think it is time that we inform the Senate that our ability to use the Force has diminished"? Doesn't Yoda indicate that "the Dark Side clouds everything"? I think that it is apparent that Sidious is using his Dark Side abilities to obscure matters for the Jedi. Therefore, the fact that Obi-Wan rejects Dooku's "What if I told you that the Republic was under the control of a Sith Lord called Darth Sidiou" remark, is not inherently flawed.
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"The screen is a magic medium. It has such power that it can retain interest as it conveys emotions and moods that no other art form can hope to tackle." - Stanley Kubrick
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Lars_Muul
Registered:
Oct '00
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Date Posted:
2/13/05 3:02am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
- Date Edited:
2/13/05 3:03am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lars_Muul
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I don't know if that was in response to what I wrote earlier, Tyranus, but I did not mean that Obi-Wan should've believed him. He doesn't trust Dooku, so naturally, he doesn't trust anything he says. Which, of course, is the reason why Dooku tells him the truth without mentioning any names besides Darth Sidious.
I believe Lee has made over 200 films, BTW.
Lee is a real veteran
/LM
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Tyranus_the_Hutt
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
2/13/05 3:08am
Subject:
RE: AOTC Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Captive DISCUSSION
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No, Lars_Muul, that was a response to DarthTunick's query. You are likely correct that Christopher Lee has made more than 200 films - I was just looking at his filmography, and while I didn't count, the sheer volume of films that he has made is daunting.
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"The screen is a magic medium. It has such power that it can retain interest as it conveys emotions and moods that no other art form can hope to tackle." - Stanley Kubrick
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