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Topic:
Hayden
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LordVader66
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
6/12/07 5:48pm
Subject:
RE: Hayden
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Hayden will certainly be the Harrison Ford of the prequels.
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Peace in the Middle East
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dianethx
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
6/14/07 9:19am
Subject:
RE: Hayden
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Ani_Lover posted:
ObiWanCon posted:
Hayden was BRILLIANT in Revenge of the Sith and also he was great in Shattered Glass and I look forward to seeing him in future movies.
I agree of course. 
He's also absolutely amazing in Life As A House.
I don't know one single person who's seen that movie and not loved him in it.
I loved that movie. Hayden was brilliant in it, imo.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
6/14/07 2:05pm
Subject:
RE: Hayden
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So he was believable as a house?
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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Senate_Chancellor
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
6/17/07 12:20pm
Subject:
RE: Hayden
- Date Edited:
6/17/07 12:51pm (4 edits total)
Edited By:
Senate_Chancellor
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DARTH-FURBABY posted:
In reading thru the posts, I noticed a lot of criticism with the A/P romance scenes in AOTC. Many people say it made them cringe or the script writer could't write a decent script and other such comments. I believe the scene was supposed to feel like that. You have a story about 2 people who are immensely attracted to each other, but on the other hand don't really know each other. The one is reticent about expressing her feelings, the other, is so overwhelmed by his feelings that has trouble saying what he wants to say. It's like eavesdropping on a private and personal conversation between 2 people, of course it feels uncomfortable. I just thought it seemed a natural and realistic kind of conversation between a couple sitting down and seriously talking about their feelings for the very first time.
You are not the first, and you will not be the last to make this point. Many have made that point to death, on Amazon.com, in the reviews of Attack of the Clones. But it just simply does not seem to get through to those drawn to Star Wars for the action scenes filled with testosterone, and for those scenes only. This is not to demean those parts. Those parts are part of the story. But these are not the only parts. And definitely not the parts upon which to judge the saga.
Star Wars is so much more than a story about battles, large or small. There are a lot of philosophical aspects of it. The saga draws people from all ages: including children in the teens or younger, and adults who yearn to be that age again. And the views of this section of the audience feature more prominently on the Internet, including the Jedi Council Forums and Amazon.com. And with this comes the preoccupation of that age, with competition and testosterone, the superficial aspects of Star Wars, at the expense of all the philosophical aspects. Thus many people will ignore your point.
But you have hit on the tip of a much larger ice-berg, which makes so many hate the Prequels in general, and Hayden Christensen and Attack of the Clones in particular. There are many heroes in Star Wars: many character which the fans are drawn especially too, and want to emulate. For some it's Luke Skywalker, for others it's Han Solo, and for other's Darth Vader. They see in these heroes aspects of themselves, combined with aspects of what they would like to be. These heroes partly reflect who they are, and who they want to be. So it becomes unbearable when this mirror starts reflecting aspects which they do not like. And this is especially true of Hayden's character, Anakin Skywalker, in Attack of the Clones.
In this film, more than any of the Prequels, and any of the Original Trilogy, the mirror cracks. Anakin's character slowly, but inexorably, transforms into Darth Vader, through a series of defining events. And all of these stem from the love of his mother. Many of the audience share this same love for their mother. And it is shocking for them to find that something so pure, so sacred to them, could in any anyway lead to such self-destruction as in the case of Anakin. Just like they do not like the dialogue of the romantic scenes between Anakin and Padme. These scenes do not reflect a part of their character, a part of their society, they would like to see.
The audience do not only share the same love of their mother as Anakin, they also share the same selfish, impetuous, narcissistic temper he shows in the film. His preoccupation with his own skills, his own ambitions, and desires: the resentment he nurtures against the elders of the Jedi Council, for holding him back. They, like Anakin, have gone through the same moods in their teenage years. Or they now have children going through the same moods. And it is shocking for them, as the film seems to be suggesting, that an overly strong paternal attachment, could anyway be linked to such moods. And these moods, in turn could lead to evil and self-destruction. By doing this, the film is breaking a social taboo. Whereas other family films glorify the family relationship, this film seems to be intent with showing its dangers.
So with this in mind, the reasons for the general reaction to the courtship between Padme and Anakin becomes clear. Again the film breaks another social taboo, by suggesting that the erotic love between a man and woman could in anyway be related to evil or be self-destructive. Although many point towards the awkwardness of the dialogue between the lovers as what irritates them, they are being disingenuous at best, and lying at worst. It is this suggestion, about the possible consequences of passion, rather than the dialogue, which irritates them.
Before the film begins, they know what Anakin becomes. But they do not know how he becomes that way. However, given the trend they have seen in the film so far, the social taboos it breaks, given the fact that in the promotional material for the film, its posters, the precepts of the Jedi were written: "A Jedi shall not love", it was obvious, subconsciously if not consciously, what was going to happen next. This love between Anakin and Padme was going to be instrumental in him becoming Darth Vader. And indeed it is in the following film The Revenge of the Sith.
In The Revenge of the Sith, Anakin has already gone far down the road. The seeds of his destruction have already been sown. In the scenes with Mace and Palpatine, in Palpatine's office, and just prior to that, when Anakin was waiting in the Jedi Temple, Anakin did make vital decisions. But these decisions were made very quickly, before moving onto the action. And these decisions were only believable because of the ground work laid down in Attack of the Clones. These decisions were only a conclusion of a line of reasoning, which the audience is willing to accept. But it is the line of reasoning itself, which they reject.
In The Phantom Menace, the seeds of Anakin's destruction have barely been sown. This line of reasoning is just barely visible. So, in general, the audience of Star Wars tend to rate Attack of the Clones least of the 3 Prequels, followed by The Phantom Menace, and the Revenge of the Sith. In Revenge of the Sith, more than in any of the Prequels, the heroes in the film reflect aspects of their audience which they like to see: aspects of their society they liked to see. The villains have been exercised out into the open: not depicted as internal flaws in the audience's character.
The more honest fans of Star Wars have attacked this propensity to break social taboos, on this forum. They have attacked the fact the Jedi take away children from their parents at a young age. They have attacked the fact that the Jedi Order does not permit its members to form erotic or other emotional attachments. They have condemned this as arcane and destructive. They have condemned the Jedi for lacking compassion for Anakin with respect to his attachment to his mother, and Padme. But it has not occurred to them that a life of chastity, both sexually and emotionally, could have any benefits. It has not occurred to them to examine religious orders today, which practice chastity, either eastern or western, and compare members of these orders and their ability to lead, with their society: especially the leaders of their society, their corporate leaders, their political leaders. In short, the philosophical aspects of Star Wars has been completely lost on them.
And Hayden Christensen's crime in all of this? He had the unfortunate job of being a vehicle by which the Prequels broke these social taboos, and George Lucas had the audacity to put these philosophical questions to its audience. The detractors (of both Hayden and Lucas) have conflated their abhorrence for this, with Christensen's propensity to act, and Lucas's ability to write and direct a script. When Hayden portrays a character breaking these taboos in Attack of the Clones, they call him "whiney, brattey and crappy", and Lucas incompetent: "he can't write romance to save his life". When the same Hayden portrays the same character turning to the Dark Side in Revenge of the Sith, they call him "exceptional" and Lucas's script "awesome". But wisdom is proved right by all her children.
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Phantom_Menace
Registered:
Apr '07
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Date Posted:
6/17/07 2:03pm
Subject:
RE: Hayden
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A well thought out post that has me thinking. Great response I agree totally.
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DARTHCLANDESTINE
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/17/07 10:19pm
Subject:
RE: Hayden
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That was just...impressive, Senate Chancellor! 
This is what is happening to me now. I figure NOW that AOTC is a extremely well thought out and constructed movie, where I actually start to appreciate Hayden's performance in what was given,and the taboos that this kind of character exposes. Hayden is darn great in AOTC, after Ive watched ROTS countless of times. Only recently Ive been watching AOTC again (after a year or so) and looking back at what was "revealed" in ROTS, the Anakin character has become MY FAVOURITE. I think that I understand his motives and feel for him.
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The Force has two sides. It is not a malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope -- George Lucas
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Jamiebacca
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
6/18/07 10:40am
Subject:
RE: Hayden
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Hayden was chosen for cheap Canadian labour. With our (Cdn) dollar now at 95 cents, this wouldn't have happened today.
Actually, Natalie Portman was given a pile of headshots, and GL said "So... who 'does it' for ya?"
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VaderLVR64
Title: Fan Fic Manager in Combat Boots
Registered:
Feb '04
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Date Posted:
6/20/07 2:29pm
Subject:
RE: Hayden
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In AOTC he was whiny and self-centered. In other words, he was a typical 19 year old male. I know, I know. Stereotypes. But having raised three sons I can guarantee you they are just like that. 
In ROTS he was dark and confused. And wonderfully vulnerable to Palpatine's manipulations.
Hayden will always be Anakin Skywalker for me.
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
6/21/07 7:21am
Subject:
RE: Hayden
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LordVader66 posted:
Hayden will certainly be the Harrison Ford of the prequels.
In what way?
If you mean the "someone for the moms taking their kids for the umpteenth time to enjoy", then I'd say Liam Neeson or Ewan McGregor.
If you mean "catapulted to superstardom" I'd say not likely. Ewan McGregor seemed on that path, but he's pulled back lately (and perhaps for the better).
If you mean "the person who is so awesome that he makes all this nerdy space stuff seem cool" then, sorry, but the PT doesn't have anyone like that.
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mspadme69
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
6/21/07 11:47am
Subject:
RE: Hayden
- Date Edited:
6/21/07 11:51am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
mspadme69
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hayden was the best pick to be anakin(and i think gl gave natalie more than head shots to pick from)granted some of his lines and acting from aotc(like after his mom is killed and then they are on the ship going to rescue obi-wan, he was just like over all that anger, and smiling away, it was kinda displaced for me)was silly, but i love aotc and rots the best because of hayden's portrayel of anakin, i can see no better actor today who wouldve of had the stature like he does.
jonathan jackson- too skinny but i love him too.
ryan phillipe-no way too short
leonardo -maybe but kinda short i think, even his current girlfriend is taller than him.
and whoever else was considered paled.
come on he needed some one taller than natalie it would of looked ridicoulas to have some 1 her own height.
george lucas rocks when it comes to casting the right actors!!!!
harrison ford of the pt? dont know about that...he was 1 of a kind...
hayden christensen will always be anakin to me also.
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Dumb question.?.there is no such thing as a dumb question..
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LordVader66
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
6/21/07 1:04pm
Subject:
RE: Hayden
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted:
LordVader66 posted:
Hayden will certainly be the Harrison Ford of the prequels.
In what way?
In the sense that he now has a chance at, and to, sustain superstardom. He has several big movie roles coming up. Awake, with Jessica Alba, especially. The movie was finished in like late 2006 and they had test audiences look at it, and everyone thought Hayden's performance was off the charts. So their holding it back for release until late '07 to generate Oscar buzz for Hayden. And he's got another big budget film coming out in Feb. '08 called jumper with Sam Jackson. He's been given opportunites for life after Star Wars because he is an excellent actor. Watch Life as a House or Shattered Glass, the guy can act.
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JohnWesleyDowney
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
6/21/07 4:37pm
Subject:
RE: Hayden
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Watch Life as a House or Shattered Glass, the guy can act.
You're absolutely right...he was great in those films, as well as ROTS,
of course. He's got a big future ahead of him.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
6/21/07 5:06pm
Subject:
RE: Hayden
- Date Edited:
6/21/07 5:07pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Arawn_Fenn
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Shattered Glass... that was an all too realistic fall to the dark side... the dark side of lying oneself into a corner...
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
6/21/07 6:36pm
Subject:
RE: Hayden
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Shattered Glass was excellent, haven't seen Life as a House
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DrAnakin
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
6/21/07 7:24pm
Subject:
RE: Hayden
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When I watch the OT, or see any picture of mechanical Vader for that matter, I really can see Hayden's face underneath the mask. I think that alone is substantial evidence that Hayden did a fantastic job. No longer is Darth Vader a hulking evil monster, but he is Anakin in a black suit. I think this is due specifically and exclusively to HC's acting in the prequels. Hayden gave Anakin a face and created sympathy for Vader.
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