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Author	Topic: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga
Samurai-Jack Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 6/1/05 7:41am Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga
	I think Darth Sidious looks like Lon Chaney's vampire from London After Midnight. Note the position of the hands in this pic. In several scenes Ian McDiarmid has his hands in the same position and is even hunched over like Chaney. -----signature----- Random symbols (total ivory tower stuff) http://theforce.net/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20000127-1-017150.html Random Symbols (Ivory Tower: Episode 2) http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=403461&page=1
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Winston_Sith Registered: Apr '04	Date Posted: 6/5/05 11:09pm Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga
	Awesome stuff, there. I forgot to mention that the skin on Tion Meddon's face kind of makes him look like Pinhead from Hellraiser, w/o the pins. -----signature----- Winston_Sith - Originator of the 'Frankenstein Theory' ROTS = the 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga http://boards.theforce.net/Revenge_of_the_Sith_/b10331/19892011/ Spoiler Free for SW TV!! http://boards.theforce.net/small_screen_star_wars/b10467/22279522/
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NeoBaggins Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 6/5/05 11:21pm Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga
	Frankenstien: Vader The warewolf: Chewbacca Bram Stoker's Dracula: Palpatine Creature from the black Lagoon: Grevous -----signature----- You hear that? That's the sound of inevitability. You hear that? That's the A train. You hear that? That's the sound of a thousand terrible things heading this way.
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LukeBaggins Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 6/6/05 12:25am Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga
	Great thread. I think there's a big nod to Ray Harryhausen's creatures with Boga and previously with the Reek, Acklay etc. I also noticed the Temple Of Doom mine cart sequence nod in the Kenobi / Grevious chase plus the ET nod when Yoda departs Kashyyyk and the 2001: Space Odyssey reference of the asteroid/moon location where Bail, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Padme go at the end ( I read a post earlier about this before I saw ROTS) I personally thought the 'Frankenstein' influence was great - and I expected the Vader 'Nooooo!" scene to be weak, as suggested by many people, but it was just right. -----signature----- "That's no moon, that's a ... uhm ... oh wait, sorry, yeah. That's a moon."
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Jager Registered: Apr '05	Date Posted: 6/6/05 1:30am Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga
	I am glad to see that someone else saw the Frankenstein thing happening when Vader breaks off from the table. No one else knew what the hell I was talking about here. LOL!
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Lyn_Me-s_Masseur Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 6/6/05 3:55am Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga
	Utinni! I posted my thoughts on this a few days ago in another, perhaps less appropriate thread. I'm just going to copy the gist of what I said there and paste it here; I hope that you don't think that I'm too lazy, but I have to go massage Lyn Me in like two minutes, so... Darth Sidious = Victor Frankenstein, Dracula, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde I admit that Darth Sidious is genuinely evil, unlike many versions of Dr. Frankenstein, but he does "create" Darth Vader in the iconic scene near the end of the film. And as for Dracula... well, it's not as strong as the Frankenstein connection, but I certainly see it there, and it seems that others in this thread do as well. And the Palpatine / Darth Sidious relationship is similar to the relationship between Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (except in this case, of course, Dr. Jekyll is also evil). Count Dooku = Dracula He's a count. Indeed, he's a "Count D." He's played by Christopher Lee, who played Dracula famously. He meets his demise through decapitation; fans of vampire movies will acknowledge that vampires are often killed through decapitation rather than through the (perhaps now more famous) staking. General Grievous = Igor (or, if you prefer, "Ygor") They both carry out the dirty work for Dr. Frankenstein. They both walk with a hunch. They both suffer from ailments (Ygor in Son of Frankenstein from a broken neck, for example, and General Grievous from coughing fits). They both speak with thick accents (O.K., General Grievous sounds Laotian to me, not Hungarian, but you get the point). They’re both tougher and smarter than they let on. Tion Medon = The Mummy Nosferatu has been mentioned above, and I think that that movie could very well be an inspiration. Tion Medon is ratlike in many ways, for example. I was thinking the Mummy, however. Take a look -- his collar even resembles an Egyptian mummy's headdress. The Wookies = Wolfmen Reaching? Maybe... but they are similar, nyeta? and, of course Darth Vader = Frankenstein’s Monster I won’t go into details here; the relationship is obvious. Poodoo! I've got to go...
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Greedo_forever Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 6/6/05 8:32am Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga - Date Edited: 6/6/05 8:32am (1 edits total) Edited By: Greedo_forever
	Sorry if it had already been stated: When Obi Wan starts to ride that dinosaur/lizard thing, the music and the imagery made me think of King Kong (the original black and white one with dinosaurs in it). I loved that bit. -----signature----- "Bounty hunters... We don't need their scum!" "Ches ko ba tuta creesta crenko ya kolska!" "Yes, I bet you have..."
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Winston_Sith Registered: Apr '04	Date Posted: 10/23/05 10:14pm Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga
	Now, THIS is absolutely PRICELESS!!!: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065851/fullcredits <scroll down...> -----signature----- Winston_Sith - Originator of the 'Frankenstein Theory' ROTS = the 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga http://boards.theforce.net/Revenge_of_the_Sith_/b10331/19892011/ Spoiler Free for SW TV!! http://boards.theforce.net/small_screen_star_wars/b10467/22279522/
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KILLER-CLONE Registered: Sep '05	Date Posted: 10/23/05 10:30pm Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga
	Nice find. I think the entire PT is laced with references to the Golden and Silver Ages of Hollywood. the Frankenstien thing is just a part of it. The obvious 'Count' Dooku, the Nemoidians with their Transylvanian accents, the German Expressionist lighting and design of Geonosis and Coruscant, the Monsters of the Arena, the Pod Race/BenHur parallel, the style of acting/dialogue, the Noir style mystery of AOTC, etc,etc, etc..... Further proof of GL's overriding genius. And it makes sense too. The PTs (homaging 30s and 40s films) are more stylised than the OT which is more gritty and arguably more 'real' in it's depiction of a 'used' galaxy. Not unlike the wave of realism that was dominating Hollywood films of the 70's.
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Cryogenic Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 10/24/05 5:23am Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga
	Exceptionally good point. - There are vampiric overtones in Palpatine's seduction of Anakin just as there were in his seduction of Luke. This guy gets off on hatred and anger. The whole reason he turns Anakin is to attain "unlimited power"; it is obvious that he draws strength from Anakin's folly. - I'm not really up on my horror but Grievous sounds Transylvanian to me. Matt Wood did an excellent job performing as him. Although the cape is not unique to Grievous, it stands out against his white torso. Again, the effect is very Transylvanian to me. - Yoda pronounces "Sidious" in a very odd way. Again, it sounds a little Transylvanian to me. - The theme of scarring/mutilation is implicit in Sith's narrative. After Dooku gets despatched, we're left with three main villains: Palpatine, Grievous and Vader. All three are physically damaged in some way. This, of course, is an age-old Hollywood conceit when depicting bad guys. But Lucas uses it to great effect. -----signature----- I have a great admiration for George. These films are very well-intentioned. All right, they make tremendous amounts of money and appeal to kids, but they say good things, and they say them in a broad way. I believe in the Star Wars films. - Ian McDiarmid
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darth-amedda Registered: Aug '03	Date Posted: 10/24/05 5:27am Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga - Date Edited: 10/24/05 5:35am (2 edits total) Edited By: darth-amedda
	Yeah, it has been even officially confirmed. Hidalgo in one of the chats on the Official Site was asked if ROTS would be inspired by the old classical horror/monster movies. He confirmed that and said literary: yes, but generally ROTS like all the other SW films would be a pastiche of 30s-40s cinematography. The PTs (homaging 30s and 40s films) are more stylised than the OT which is more gritty and arguably more 'real' in it's depiction of a 'used' galaxy. Not unlike the wave of realism that was dominating Hollywood films of the 70's. Well, I think several apparent references may be seen also in OT. Tatooine in ANh is very much based on western-movies cliches (farm, saloon, Luke as a simple farm boy, Han Solo with his waistcoat, gunmen shootings). Chewie as a wolfman. 3PO based on female droid from Metropolis. Imperials as Nazis. References to the Wizard of Oz. Luke's training on Dagobah inspired by the training from the Eastern B-class movies about apprentices and masters of various martial arts. Emperor as an evil witch. etc. etc. -----signature----- "One of the sequels we are thinking of is the young days of Ben Kenobi". George Lucas 1977 "You know, I'm not known for my dialogue". George Lucas 2003
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Roger Goldleader Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 10/24/05 11:39am Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga
	In ROTS, Palpatine ends up looking like Lon Chaney in "The Phantom of The Opera" (and Ian McDiarmid was very gleeful about this turn of events). Which makes me think that George Lucas did not chose the title "The Phantom Menace" lightly. Exactly - he was the "Phantom" at the opera.... -----signature----- "Luke, see if they have a droid that plays bocci ball." Are you sure she said Nerf Herder? All these years I thought she said "Nerfurter," like a frankfurter.... "Master Qui Gon, sir? I don't want to be any trouble...."
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JohnWesleyDowney Registered: Jan '04	Date Posted: 10/24/05 2:20pm Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga - Date Edited: 10/24/05 2:35pm (1 edits total) Edited By: JohnWesleyDowney
	Winston Sith, you're right on the money. Lucas very specifically said in interviews that the transformation from Anakin to Vader would be done in the "vocabulary" of a 30s film, and certainly there it is, right there in ROTS, staged and acted just like FRANKENSTEIN. And it's very well done. Of course Padme's supposed to look like "The Bride of Frankenstein"...it's an "in" joke that went over a lot of people's heads. It's so amusing everyone ridicules the "nooooooooooo" scene. Funny, no one did that when Luke pathetically screams "nooooo" on THREE different occasions in the old trilogy. Like father, like son, I guess. Yes, Vader does look pathetic when he does it. HE'S SUPPOSED TO. That's what the film is SAYING. His choices have made him a pathetic character. All of STAR WARS to some degree has been based on 30s and 40s serials, sci-fi and monster movies...the style all originated there....the use of a prologue roll-up (right out of Flash Gordon), the transitional optical wipes (which were virtually never used in the mid-70s in films when Lucas re-popularized them), it was always very retro - to those in the know.
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darth-amedda Registered: Aug '03	Date Posted: 10/25/05 5:31am Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga - Date Edited: 10/25/05 5:41am (2 edits total) Edited By: darth-amedda
	Probably the following quote does not completely fits to this thread, butI guess this is the closest and seems to be quite nice reading. This is a part from Vikipedia enytry on ROTS: Cinematic and literary allusions Throughout Revenge of the Sith Lucas refers to a wide range of films and other sources drawing on political, military and mythological motifs to enhance the impact of his story. Early on Anakin's execution of Dooku mimics the scissor-beheadings of Ridley Scott's film Gladiator, and the subsequent run across the elevator shaft walls while the spaceship is falling in battle echoes the disastrous situations of The Poseidon Adventure. Palpatine's fears of a Jedi coup d'etat are comparable to the plot of the John Frankenheimer thriller Seven Days in May, while his actions of converting Anakin to the Dark Side and motivating him to assassinate his political enemies in order to aid his ascent to dictatorial powers are more close to the content of Frankenheimer's previous film, The Manchurian Candidate. Also, in both films, the brainwashed assassin eventually murders —or is led to believe he has murdered— his own wife. In Frankenheimer's film, the wife is the daughter of a liberal senator. In Lucas' film, the wife herself is a liberal senator. Palpatine's appearance and actions are also reminiscent of Dr. Mabuse, particularly as portrayed by German actor Rudolph Klein-Rogge in director Fritz Lang's films. Anakin also bears a resemblance to a villainous character played by Klein-Rogge from a film by Lang —the mad scientist Rotwang from the classic film Metropolis. Both Anakin and Rotwang wear a menacing leather glove on one hand and concentrate on saving —or resurrecting— a lost loved one. Also, Rotwang builds the android whose appearance heavily influenced the image of Lucas' C-3PO, who was built, in The Phantom Menace, by Anakin. Lucas' editing schemes during Order-66, the slaughter of the Separatists and the declaration of the Galactic Empire is reminiscent of the montage of massacres during the christening scene of The Godfather, a film directed by mentor Francis Ford Coppola. Palpatine's scheming manipulations of Anakin have been compared by many, including Ian McDiarmid himself, to those of Iago, the villain of Shakespeare's Othello. In Othello, the title character is led to believe by Iago that his wife has committed adultery with his confidante and lieutenant. In Revenge of the Sith, Anakin comes to believe that his wife, Padmé, has betrayed him to his former master, Obi-Wan. And as an addition pics of Mabuse: and of Rotwang: -----signature----- "One of the sequels we are thinking of is the young days of Ben Kenobi". George Lucas 1977 "You know, I'm not known for my dialogue". George Lucas 2003
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SEPARATESICKLEROOK2 Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 10/26/05 4:21am Subject: RE: ROTS: The 1930's Monster Movie of The Saga
	Back in the early days of ROTS production there was a hyperspace interview with Lucas where he stated that he developed the script in a 30s style, and that he hoped everyone would like it. And yes, it rocked out. By the way WINSTON SITH, do you like in Winston Salem by chance? -----signature----- "I DO NOT FEAR THE DARKSIDE, I EMBRACE IT!"
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