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Topic:
Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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GARTH_MAUL
Title: Photorealistic LACWAC Manager
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
11/15/05 6:49pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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andkiich posted:
I suggest reading the novelizations for the prequel trilogy. They will afford answers to more than half the questions asked.
That's the author's interpretation, not Lucas'. Or ours.
The ROTS novelization was the only one that had been checked over by Lucas, correct? I should probably read that.
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DarthButt
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
11/15/05 7:00pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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I think Labyrinth of Evil and Dark Lord also have GL's stamp of approval. They are being marketed as the *official* prequel and sequel to ROTS.
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GARTH_MAUL
Title: Photorealistic LACWAC Manager
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
11/15/05 10:50pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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Righto. But Lucas went over Matt Stover's ROTS novelization line by line, and made a few minor edits.
The ROTS novelization is the closest literature we've ever had to G-level canon.
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DarthButt
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
11/16/05 1:56am
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
- Date Edited:
11/16/05 1:57am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthButt
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GARTH_MAUL posted:
Righto. But Lucas went over Matt Stover's ROTS novelization line by line, and made a few minor edits.
The ROTS novelization is the closest literature we've ever had to G-level canon.
Yeah, you're right. I think GL is finally attempting to make the licensed EU congruent with his movies by pattening it or something. I think he got tired of disproving someone else' EU and taking $#!^ for it. Anywho...shall we drift back towards the topic? And should the PT novelization EU be considered in this thread?
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PMT99
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
11/16/05 2:14am
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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GARTH_MAUL posted:
TPM
- Did Palpatine think Queen Amidala would sign the treaty?
No, but he counted on that and on the fact that she would come to Coruscant to report to the Senate about the Trade Federation's hostile takeover of her home planet, Naboo. He would capitalize on this action by manipulating Amidala into removing Chancellor Valorum from office so that he would take his place.
GARTH_MAUL posted:
- Was he certain he would become Chancellor?
Yes, he was very certain.
GARTH_MAUL posted:
- Did he know of the existence of Anakin?
Tough to say. I think he did know of Anakin but couldn't do anything about it since he's concentrating on setting up events that will lead him to become Supreme Chancellor. Once he got the job done, he can begin fiddling with Anakin's emotions to lure him to the Dark Side.
GARTH_MAUL posted:
- Did he know Darth Maul was going to die (and the TF lose the Naboo battle)?
No, he never counted on Darth Maul dying because he felt that Maul can easily defeat both Qui-Gon and Obi-wan which he technically did. Maul took out Qui-Gon and had Obi-wan down but he made the mistake of thinking the fight was already over which allowed Obi-wan to escape and kill Maul. Palpatine also never counted on the Trade Feds losing the Naboo battle because he was already creating a clone army in secret so that he can pit them against the droid army thus starting the Clone Wars much earlier. He never expect the Naboo people and the Gungans to work together nor that Anakin would blow up the Droid control ship so because of that, he had to wait 10 years to restart his plan to start a full-scale war to gain more power in the Republic.
GARTH_MAUL posted:
AOTC
- Did Palpatine know Padme would survive the assassination attempts?
Yes, because he wanted to scare her into going back to Naboo since he wanted the senate to grant him the authority to unleash his Clone army in public and Padme was rallying most of the senators to oppose his authority. Plus, he wanted to reunite Padme with Anakin so that he can get Anakin to reject his Jedi principals and to act on his emotional feelings for Padme which will jumpstart his downfall.
GARTH_MAUL posted:
- Did he know Obi-Wan would find the Kaminoan saber dart and eventually track down Kamino?
Yes, because he knew that once Obi-wan gets to Kamino and finds the owner of the saber dart, it will lead him to Geonosis thus discovering the Seperatists massing more droid armies enabling Obi-wan to report it to the Council. Then the Council reports it to Palpatine which will give him an excuse to deploy the clone army in public.
GARTH_MAUL posted:
- Did he know Anakin's mother was kidnapped/dying?
Yeah, he knew because he wanted Anakin to use the Dark Side against his mother's kidnappers.
GARTH_MAUL posted:
- Did he know what would happen on Geonosis?
Yes, he knew because he told Dooku that the Jedi were coming and that Yoda will go to Kamino to recruit the Clone army.
GARTH_MAUL posted:
ROTS
- Did Palpatine know Dooku would die and Obi-Wan survive?
Palps knew that Anakin will kill Dooku but he did not count on Obi-wan surviving.
GARTH_MAUL posted:
- Did he know they would survive the crash of the Invisible Hand?
Yes.
GARTH_MAUL posted:
- Did he know Anakin wasn't going to kill him when he revealed himself as Sith?
Yes, because he can sense that Anakin is desperate to find a way to help Padme survive childbirth and by telling him that the Dark Side can keep her alive, Anakin will have no choice but to side with him.
GARTH_MAUL posted:
- Did he know Anakin would arrive in time to help him with Mace?
Yes, which is why Palps didn't finish off Mace Windu so easily like he did the other 3 Jedi masters.
GARTH_MAUL posted:
- Did he know about the twins?
He only knew about 1 child because in Empire Strikes Back, he automatically knew that the Death Star destroyer pilot is Anakin's child and he withheld that information from Vader because 1) he was going to replace Vader with Luke after the injuries that Vader sustained from Obi-wan and 2) he didn't want Vader to turn against him which is why he exaggerated Padme's death to make Vader believe that he himself was responsible.
GARTH_MAUL posted:
- Did he know Anakin was going to get sliced and diced, then deep-fried?
On one hand, he sensed that Anakin was in danger which meant that he didn't want him to be sliced, diced, and deep-fried but on the other hand, he felt that it will be the only way he can control him alot better. With all of Anakin's powers stripped away and his body mutilated, he has no chance of killing PalpSidious on his own.
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Alpha-Red
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
11/17/05 12:22pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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Augh.....too much detail. Palpatine doesn't have to micro-manage everything. Anakin killing the sandpeople wasn't because of Palpatine's influence. It really cheapens his turning to the dark side. He turned because of his own choices, because of the darkness within himself. The same goes for Dooku, Mace, Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Luke. The only reason some of them turned out differently is because they made a different choices.
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-HD-YaebGinn
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
11/17/05 1:51pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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I dont mean to be a mod or anything. I am just posting this link so I dont have to re-type all my views on the subject and so I can point you to a good resource. I am not redirecting this thread.
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PMT99
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
11/18/05 2:52am
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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Alpha-Red posted:
Augh.....too much detail. Palpatine doesn't have to micro-manage everything. Anakin killing the sandpeople wasn't because of Palpatine's influence. It really cheapens his turning to the dark side. He turned because of his own choices, because of the darkness within himself. The same goes for Dooku, Mace, Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Luke. The only reason some of them turned out differently is because they made a different choices.
How can Anakin make a choice if Palpatine had already forseen what he's going to do? The only reason Anakin has darkness within himself is because Palps is constantly boosting Anakin's ego so that when that ego is bruised (whether its by the Jedi or from losing his loved ones), he'll be in touch with his dark side feelings.
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-HD-YaebGinn
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
11/18/05 4:34am
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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but that only emphasizes how he manipulates things.
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ulien
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
11/18/05 5:16am
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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TPM
- Did Palpatine think Queen Amidala would sign the treaty? - he didn`t care, because he just needed the blocade to become chancellor
- Was he certain he would become Chancellor? - yeah, cos he was controlling the Senat
- Did he know of the existence of Anakin? - I`m not sure about this one
- Did he know Darth Maul was going to die (and the TF lose the Naboo battle)? - no, but it was a " necessary lost"
AOTC
- Did Palpatine know Padme would survive the assassination attempts? - yeah, because he knew about the handmaiden decoys.
- Did he know Obi-Wan would find the Kaminoan saber dart and eventually track down Kamino? - I think he even planned that Obi has to go to Kamino, so Anakin will be totally alone with Padme and dreams of his mother
- Did he know Anakin's mother was kidnapped/dying? - yes, in the first version of TPM script, he even planned it
- Did he know what would happen on Geonosis? - yes
ROTS
- Did Palpatine know Dooku would die and Obi-Wan survive? - no, but he had to see who was stronger, Dooku or Anakin
- Did he know they would survive the crash of the Invisible Hand? - probably know, thats why he wanred ankin to leave Obi-Wam and find a ship... fast!
- Did he know Anakin wasn't going to kill him when he revealed himself as Sith? - I`m not sure if he knew, but he could protect himself 
- Did he know Anakin would arrive in time to help him with Mace? - if he didn`t , he would probably just kill Mace.
- Did he know about the twins? - he knew about one child
- Did he know Anakin was going to get sliced and diced, then deep-fried? - I don`t think so
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-HD-YaebGinn
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
11/18/05 5:56am
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
- Date Edited:
11/18/05 5:57am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
-HD-YaebGinn
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Sidious's Evil Plan-
1. Instigate Naboo thing so he can rise to power as Chancellor. After he's Chancellor, he can do whatever, cause all that part of the plan is about is making it as Chancellor under the guise of wanting to free Naboo.
2. Get Apprentice to order Clone Army under the guise of another Jedi. Preferrably a dead one.
3. Get Apprentice to publicly start uniting factions together to oppose Republic.
4. Send assassination out on Senator who opposes the war. If it succeeds, no more trouble, if it fails, they will go into hiding while another, less intelligent Senator takes his/her place. Then you get emergency powers.
5. Handle war well so you get to stay in power longer than usual.
6. Let it leak to the Jedi that you are a Sith, when they attack you, record the arrest made on you, then eliminate them with help of your apprentice. (He hadnt originally planned for Anakin to be there, he woulda planned it with maul in mind)
7. Declare Jedi enemies of State, and bring up how the Jedi ordered the Clone Army before the war even began and had meant for there to be a war.
8. Turn it into Empire- BAM- domination.
edit- the details in between that are just gravy. Anything else that happens are either bonuses or obstacles that he has to deal with, but have little effect on the grand plan.
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ARC170pilot
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
11/18/05 12:17pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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only 2 things Palpatine didnt know
1: He didnt know obi-wan would defeat Anakin
2: He didnt expect Anakin to turn on him
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PMT99
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
11/19/05 1:17am
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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and
3. He didn't expect Anakin and Padme to have kids who will later on be the cause of his downfall.
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ARC170pilot
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
11/19/05 3:41am
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RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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PMT99 posted:
and
3. He didn't expect Anakin and Padme to have kids who will later on be the cause of his downfall.
Im not as sure about that. I think he expected Vader to be blind of his love for his children, and he thought that Vader would kill Luke, and then realise what he did hence, hating himself even more and maybe even becoming as evil as Sidious
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AnnLouise
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
11/19/05 12:06pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine - Foresight & Manipulation - How Much Does He Know?
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I think in some cases he put events in motion, then played off the results, not having planned the exact outcome. In the Dark Lord novel, Palp thinks back to when he arranged for Anakin to guard Padme. Later, he "found out" they'd married. So he doesn't micromanage every single event, but takes advatage of outcomes after he's put people or events in play.
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