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Topic:
Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 1:07pm
Subject:
Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
- Date Edited:
2/21/07 4:10pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
RebelScum77
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Now, Anakin was incredibly powerful there's little debate on that. What I'm more concerned with is the underlying crux of what makes a Jedi. If all that it took to be a good Jedi was to have an incredible amount of power then a good Sith would have little to nothing making them distinctive. The thread is more concerned about is Anakin a failure in the moral underpennings of the Jedi Order.
I want to specify again that I'm at least intending it to only deal with the Prequels considering that Anakin definitely succeeds as a Jedi in ROTJ.
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 2:17pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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A failure ? Heck no. He did graduate sith in his class.  Define success as a Jedi.
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 2:30pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
- Date Edited:
4/9/06 2:30pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Master_Starwalker
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By sucess I mean being true to the principals of being a Jedi such as protecting peace and justice, being morally right, a lack of attatchment (which he obviously didn't have), and following the will of the Force.
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"In a dark place we find ourselves… and a little more knowledge might light our way." - Yoda
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 2:42pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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I would grade him :
Protecting peace and justice - Grade B
Being morally right - Grade B
A lack of attatchment (which he obviously didn't have) - Grade F
Following the will of the Force. Grade A
So overall, I guess he would get a B.
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Jedi-Queen
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 2:57pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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"Following the will of the Force. Grade A"
That's way too generous IMO.
I'd flunk him for that one 
If he was following the will of the Force he would
not have tried to do the opposite of it at every turn.
He certainly didn't want to leave such things as his
placement in the Jedi Order, Padme's future etc..
to the Will of the Force.
He did follow his own will, his own quests for power
and control, his own needs and wants etc..
He was led by his obsessions which led to his failure.
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purpilian
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 3:34pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
- Date Edited:
4/9/06 3:35pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
purpilian
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There is no emotion, there is peace. Lots of emotion never at peace -C
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. Very ignorant to others who try to help -C
There is no passion, there is serenity. Very passionate -F
There is no chaos, there is harmony. Lots of chaos in his heart -D
There is no death, there is the Force. Doesnt apply really unless the whole Padme ordeal .....
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Tyrant4
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 3:54pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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I think the fact that he knew he was the Chosen One made him change his way as far how a Jedi should act. As a Jedi, he did fail, but at least he did it for what he believed in.
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iLoveAnakin7
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 4:26pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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I'll give him a C- and meet him half way there. He tried to do the right thing, the right thing being what he thought was right in his heart which is basically not what Jedi are supposed to do. They are supposed to follow the Will of the Force and not be swayed by emotions. That's where Anakin lacked most of the time because he thought his judgement was better than that of senior Jedi.
On the other hand though you can't blame him for thinking this way given the way he was rasied for the first years of his life by his openly loving mother, and you can't really compare him to another Jedi because he was not given the same start as they were. Add to the fact that he was the Chosen One and you have a disaster.
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 4:30pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
- Date Edited:
4/9/06 4:31pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Master_Starwalker
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I'll give my opinion later but, anyone who's seen my posts can probably predict it.
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"Creativity is piercing the mundane to find the marvelous." - Bill Moyers
"In a dark place we find ourselves… and a little more knowledge might light our way." - Yoda
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 4:46pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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"Following the will of the Force. Grade A"
That's way too generous IMO.
I'd flunk him for that one
Well maybe. But he was a creation of the Force. Maybe youre grading the will of the Force. In which case, it does get a F.
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DARTHLINK
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 5:04pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
- Date Edited:
4/9/06 5:06pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
DARTHLINK
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Controlling his anger: C- (I would give him a D- for the Tusken ordeal, but anyone under exteme curcumstances or put in the situation he was would bound to just snap like he did, but still...)
Leaving things to the will of the Force: D RE: "I will even learn to stop people from dying!" and him trying to stop the unavoidable.
Thinking things through: F. There were plenty of chances he could have just calm down and thought abut things for 5 minutes and absorb in all of what Obi-Wan taught him, but he doesn't. What does he do the moment he has a dream about Padme dying? Does he take her to a hospital to have her checked and talk to Obi-Wan for help? No. He immeditaly thinks that Obi-Wan and all the medical stuff Courscant has would fail him and decides to get the power to stop death itself. Even if he went to Yoda instead and got the advice, he should have listened to it and spent the time he had with Padme instead of trying to distance himself from her.
Smartness: C He's very clever and smart, but he should have known that Sidious was behind all of this, but he chooses to join the Dark Side anyway.
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So, in my ranking book, Anakin wouldn't be a disgraced and total failure as a Jedi, nor would he probably be the Legendary Jedi who's name would thunder across the universe through eons and statues would be erected for him and he would be worshipped like a god. He would probably be your average Jedi but with a little talking to, and some issues cleared up, things will go right, and who knows, he would have turned into that legendary Jedi who's name would be thundered across the universe and all that good stuff.
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Carnage04
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 5:54pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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purpilian posted:
There is no emotion, there is peace. Lots of emotion never at peace -C
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. Very ignorant to others who try to help -C
There is no passion, there is serenity. Very passionate -F
There is no chaos, there is harmony. Lots of chaos in his heart -D
There is no death, there is the Force. Doesnt apply really unless the whole Padme ordeal .....
The thing is, he wasn't a Jedi brought up in times where the Jedi was really following this code. Words are one things, circumstances are another.
There is no Peace, there is War against the CIS.
There is no knowledge, they are ignorant of who the true enemy is.
There is no serenity, there is raiding of the Republic's capital.
There is no harmony, the dark side clouds everything.
There is lots of death, and the Jedi are trying to prevent more.
How can one be a good Jedi when you are trained while there is lack of knowledge, serenity, peace, harmony and plenty of death? He (For the most part) did what he was asked and helped "Win the war". He developed a secret attachment (Love of another), forbidden by the Old Jedi Order. In the RoTS novel, we are told by Qui-Gon that love is the answer to the darkness. Had the Jedi modified their teachings and allowed love, Anakin could have talked more freely about the Padme situation and things may have been waaaaay different. I refuse to condemn him as a complete failure because of the fractured Jedi philosophy.
Carnage
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 6:18pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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Did Anakin fail as a Jedi and what the Jedi thought each individual member should be? Yes!
But the Jedi had failed the Republic. They failed to stay in touch with the WOTF and see/feel the Sith rising to power. The Sith were rising to and consolidating power at the time young Anakin was 'discovered.' This was not Anakin's fault. Had the Jedi seen Palps for what he truly was, Anakin's future would have been drastically different. The Jedi subsequently failed to take a boy which most acknowledged as the chosen one and train him according to his tremendous powers and unique talents. Instead they plugged him into a sterile and antiquated Jedi code and expected him to act as merely one cog in sea of cogs.
Anakin became Vader in part because of his own failures. He also became a Sith because of the many previous failures of the Jedi order. Each failed the other and themselves. The two go hand-in-hand. But the Jedi order that trained Anakin failed to prepare him for the trails he was doomed to endure.
In the end (EPVI), Vader saves the Jedi order In his son Luke, and ultimately himself in the process. Once again neither Yoda nor Obi-Wan felt Vader could be turned. Vader could have had continued a Sith in hope of one day overthrowing Palps, or kill the Emperor and die, ensuring his son lives to restart the Jedi order.
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Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 6:19pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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Carnage04 posted:
purpilian posted:
There is no emotion, there is peace. Lots of emotion never at peace -C
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. Very ignorant to others who try to help -C
There is no passion, there is serenity. Very passionate -F
There is no chaos, there is harmony. Lots of chaos in his heart -D
There is no death, there is the Force. Doesnt apply really unless the whole Padme ordeal .....
The thing is, he wasn't a Jedi brought up in times where the Jedi was really following this code. Words are one things, circumstances are another.
There is no Peace, there is War against the CIS.
There is no knowledge, they are ignorant of who the true enemy is.
There is no serenity, there is raiding of the Republic's capital.
There is no harmony, the dark side clouds everything.
There is lots of death, and the Jedi are trying to prevent more.
How can one be a good Jedi when you are trained while there is lack of knowledge, serenity, peace, harmony and plenty of death? He (For the most part) did what he was asked and helped "Win the war". He developed a secret attachment (Love of another), forbidden by the Old Jedi Order. In the RoTS novel, we are told by Qui-Gon that love is the answer to the darkness. Had the Jedi modified their teachings and allowed love, Anakin could have talked more freely about the Padme situation and things may have been waaaaay different. I refuse to condemn him as a complete failure because of the fractured Jedi philosophy.
Carnage
Guess you're right on many points here. However, if it was that simple why didn't more Jedi turn away? Why was it only Dooku and Anakin? Why did Anakin betray others. The Jedi didn't betray anyone but themselves. Anakin knew right from wrong and he deliberately chose to betray his former friends, his promise in TPM - indeed himself - and his wife.
Anakin is Jesus who failed. (I am absolutely no specialist on the Bible though) Jesus was tempted by the devil just as Anakin was tempted by the devil, the difference being that Anakin failed. He desired more power, and hence he became a tool of evil.
I think it is too simple to say the Jedi failed him as some say. But it is also too simple to say they didn't. Mostly I think he failed himself. In TPM we see how he wants to do good, and he wants to do good all the time. But his reasons are misguided as are his means. As OBW said: "You became the very thing you swore to protect" - and when you've done that, you've failed. Even if it is as the role of savior of a more simple role of husband.
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 8:20pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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However, if it was that simple why didn't more Jedi turn away? Why was it only Dooku and Anakin?
Youre forgetting about the other 19.
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Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
4/9/06 8:28pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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voodoopuuduu posted:
However, if it was that simple why didn't more Jedi turn away? Why was it only Dooku and Anakin?
Youre forgetting about the other 19.
Wasn't that the other 19 for about 1000 years? If so I would say that is an incredibly small number considering the strains of being a Jedi
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